Kill first, scheme later: the increased prominence of the alpha strike

[JoeCL]

As new models and upgrades are released or buffed in various ways, it seems alpha striking has become more efficient, easier to pull off, and harder to parry for many crews.

For example, you can now create a viks or misaki crew that is not only a huge damage dealer, but quite a bit more defensible than they were previously. Moderately skilled players (of which I am one) can have great success net-listing a crew and using the alpha strike strategy regardless of strat and schemes. I know because I have had this success. I ended up trading my viks crew after winning 2 games 10-0 at a tournament and leaving both players a bit salty. Just wasn't fun for my opponents, or myself for that matter because the tactics were so simplified.

Yes, elite players will be able to counter the alpha strike. However I think developing metas can be dominated by a net listed alpha strike crew. The players then find it harder to enjoy a true malifaux game focus on tactical maneuvering to achieve or deny schemes and strats. Being on the receiving end of a successful alpha is rarely fun.

It's not that I want alpha strikes not to exist, it's just that I sense they are becoming to powerful. I think this is a true threat to the health of the game as a whole, because when a factor is introduced that causes fun games to happen less often, that hurts developing metas the most.

Am I right or wrong? Should there be something done? I am toying with the idea of some creative deployment geometry instead of outright nerfs. 

[Jesy Blue]

As also a moderate tactical player, I outgrew Alpha Strike tactics long ago (started miniatures as a Tyranid player), but I'm versed in what it looks like and how to defend against it with every list I play.  I also started on Viks, and quickly gave up the first turn push into table wipe because it's boring. 

Against all but the Elite players, you can stop it.  Elite players typically won't play it because other Elite players can stop it.  The ones that do play it are trying to get into that next tier that they can't crack into with skill alone.... and will be woefully disappointed when their auto play list doesn't work at that level.

There is a great episode of The Flipping Wyrd Podcast where guy ran into like 5 Storm Misaki lists in a 2 day tournement and housed them all. 

Nothing should be done because nothing needs to be done.  It's all a Yoda quote... if you choose the quick and easy path, you will become an agent of evil in your meta.   And in the end, the one who chose to hone their skills and spent time perfecting their game will still beat you.

[Aegnor]

I agree with Jesy that alphastrike are not too powerfull or broken and elite players can stop it but i see the problem Joe is having.

The problem with alphastrike is that it's not so difficult to do and not so easy to counter at first. The alphastrike player will almost always do the same thing and has limited choices to make : what to target mostly. The other problem is that when you don't have an 'optimised' or 'tournament' list you can easily be in a situation where you simply can't really counter well the alphastrike.

I will take the example of viks against neverborn since i played this match up a lot recently (and sometimes tara laphastrike as well). The viks player has to spend some ss to do the alpha strike (malifaux child, void wretch, scion of the void, emissary, vik of blood shezul) but it's not like the models will do only the alphastrike. It takes some ap the first turn but after they are free to do anything they want so not a too big commit. The alphastrike is also pretty easy since you only have some set up that the ennemy can't disrupt in most case and then you can wait the good time to activate scion+blood. Usually this list has around 8 models.

Here the player who have to be smarter is not the vik player. He just have to wait the good time to launch the strike which is pretty straightforward once you played the list a few time. It's the other player (here neverborn) who have to position well. Even with good positioning you will have to sacrifice few models to the vik anyway. This is not a problem in some crews like collodi where you have marionettes to sacrifice and use to block charge lines or so. The worst what could happen if you position badly is the death of the emissary but it will be on you and we have stuff to make this not happen (push from effigie for example) and the vik of blood will be dead or worst from collodi since you likely have enough activations to go after the vik.

Now if i decided to play some less powerfull crew/master and less apropriate to counter this alphastrike. Lets say i play jacob lynch with 3 illuminated gwyneth graves tannen or something similar. Then i may have activated my all crew before the vik of blood goes in and she can easily kill huggy illuminated or even lynch if i dont take the push out trigger. Then on turn 2 if she gets initiative she goes again and kill something else. The game would be alsmot over from that point. Even more if she could get some good whirldwind.  

 

My problem with alphastrikes is the same with aggresives strategies in other 'strategic' games like card game for exeample. Aggro deck in magic or hearthstone (goblin rush, huntface and so on) are easier to play than to counter and even if they have very hard counters they can destroy an unprepared opponent or some deck that just can't counter them (some control deck for example). And the main thing for me is that it's just not very funny to play against such strategies. Either you can counter it and often win easy or you can't and get raped in 2-3 turns. It makes imho pretty boring games with often too much importance on turn 1-2 flips/draws with not so much strategie overall.

But anyway it will always be a quick and easy path to victory in a meta with not elite player who didn't learn yet to counter (or with crews that can't) it so i guess some people with always play it. 

[Ludvig]

I am pretty bad at countering alphas myself because my lists tend to be squishy and quirky.

Not sure if the problem ia.bigger now than it used to be. Feels to me like there has been so many alphas around since book one.

[Dogmantra]

big mistake I see a lot of people make is to always deploy as far forwards as they can, especially in close deployment.

[Aegnor]

8 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

big mistake I see a lot of people make is to always deploy as far forwards as they can, especially in close deployment.

It can help to deploy less forward but some crews just can't. Neverborn don't have very long range overall and you often have list with almsot no range and very short ones. In most cases you can just delay the alphastrike one turn which doesn't really solve the problem. When i face viks for example my opponent got 1-2 trappers and my max range is like 10-12 so if i wait too much i will be shot down. The fact that he can alphastrike at 40 " on paper with all the good upgrades also make this mistake not so big. 

But yeah this can be a very common mistake. I saw it myself a few time when i was doing the 'new' ulix warpig alphastrike.

[mojopin]

I also have the feeling that alphas are very difficult to counter.  Besides that, arcanist alpha and tara alpha have  to initiative which tend to be devastating. Cunning alpha players will go for your hevy hitters first leaving you with low chances to eliminate his threats. 

Having to play hiding or keeping absurd distances will finally lead to losing tempo and aps giving great adventage to your opponent. 

From my resser point of view kirai and reva can stop those alphas quite well but the other masters will probably be death after first enemy chain activation in turn 2. 

I miss more defensive models that can stop this

[Angelshard]

I don't really think alpha lists are a problem in general. I find defensive lure and pounce lists to be way more obnoxious. The feeling that you have to throw everything in his face turn two or get chewed up piecemeal is really frustrating. 

That said I can see why alpha lists could be demoralizing in a new meta. The feeling that you lost in turn two and couldn't stop it sucks.

Some things you can do against alpha is:

Hire rusty Alice. Her no charge 6" aura can stop a strike dead in its tracks.

Use lure to get his important models out of position or even kill them first.

Throw a cheap model in the face of one of the key models so it can't move.

Use a model that can put down LoS blocking terrain.

Hold a glass cannon back for a counter charge to kill whatever he used for alpha.

I know these strategies won't work for every master or faction. But name some masters and I'm certain we can help

[Ludvig]

I'm fairly sure Alice's aura isn't 6", more like three or four. Disguised helps against some of them but not against Viks or Lady Justice just unburying near you.

[Angelshard]

You're right it's only 3" I was thinking of hamelin. I've yet to see an effective non-Tara list that just unburies near you and doesn't charge

[Ludvig]

19 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

You're right it's only 3" I was thinking of hamelin. I've yet to see an effective non-Tara list that just unburies near you and doesn't charge

Justice can unbury from her emissary and since she has her push + attack action and gets a positive to damage from not charging she often doesn't charge and still get to the edge of the enemy deployment. 

A void wretch can bury a Vik and the scion unburies her or something kills a model. Not sure what model qould be good for it since they lost the rats but I'm sure they have something.

Hoffman can easily move a construct 15"-18" and make it fast turn 1. 

Preventing charges is good but will not solve everything if your opponent is a dedicated alpha striker.

[Angelshard]

True I'd forgotten about Justice, I've never played against her.

Vics bury strike really isn't very impressive. At least in my opinion. Even with the new upgrade I still find that it spends way too many points on setup.

I agree that there's ways to alpha without charging, but most alpha lists do depend on charge. As for the others lure and terrain markers can usually help you.

It also depends a lot on what master you're playing.

[Ludvig]

I agree that there are ways to limit them but there are alphas that are really hard to keep safe from.

Fast, nimble Yasinori pushed up 8" by McCabe and another 5" or 6" by Yu or the emissary can usually just walk over a piece of blocking terrain which kept it safe from your attacks and cause mayhem.

Some alphas you can't stay safe from. You might be able to make a favourable trade if you keep a beater back to threaten anyting that threatens your models but that requires out-activation. Someone building his plan on alpha striking usually makes sure they out-activate.