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Paul7926

First tournament list sanity check

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Greetings

There is a 50ss three round tournament near me in a couple of months that I'm thinking about attending.  I'm still ultra new to playing the game so the purpose would simply be to turn up, play some games, have a laugh and not totally embarrass myself or ruin the experience for my opponents.  I've played a few Henchman Hardcore games and some 35ss games but not 50ss yet.  My plan would be to pick a crew now, get some practice games in before the event and hopefully be competent enough to play three games without needing to constantly ask about rules and whilst I don't expect to win I'd like to be able to at least give my opponents some semblance of an actual game.  Nothing worse than travelling to an event and getting drawn against the guy who has no clue how to even play the game.  I'd rather not go than be 'that guy'!  All we know so far is that it's a 3 round event using GG 2017 allowing wave 4 models.  Yeah, means nothing to me really but there you go.

I have some Gremlins, Ten Thunders and Outcasts in my collection (don't have the list with me but can provide it later tonight if it helps).  What I'm trying to build is a crew that is easy to learn in two months rather than a tournament winning killer list.  As stated more than once I just don't want to be the guy who ruins anyone's experience on the day.

I've come up with:

  • Von Schill (Oath Keeper, Survivalist, The shirt comes off)
  • Student of Conflict
  • Taelor (Oath Keeper)
  • Freikorps Librarian
  • Freikorps Specialist (Oath Keeper)
  • Freikorps Trapper
  • Freikorpsman

Now this is because I'm led to believe that Schill is a good box to start with even if he is not considered a top tier master.  I have all those models but not all the Oath Keeper cards.  I should be able to borrow cards and possibly buy/borrow models if necessary but please bear in mind that squeaking every last competitive advantage out of the list isn't necessary because my lack of skill will negate that.  I'm more interested to know if there is a better 'starter' list or anything in that list is really out of place or counter productive.  Maybe you have a different list that is more beginner friendly that you would advise using instead?  I will have time to study the rules and two of my local group have already offered to play 'teaching' games with me to try and get me ready.  It doesn't hurt to get as much advice as possible before putting a list together to learn from.

Any/all advice or comments most welcome.

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Wow, Paul7926, you are an extremely considerate player. If there's a Best Sportsperson award in the tournament, I'd think you would be a top favourite. :)Remember that even if you're a newer player, if you meet the minimum eligibility requirements, you're just as entitled to be there as anyone else. Plus, if any of your opponents are ruthlessly competitive, they'd probably like the fact that you're less experienced than some of the other players. So in that sense, you're doing them a favour, and they don't have a right to get excessively impatient with you. If you have to look up a rule once or twice midway, at least that means you're not likely to instinctively know how to counter whatever Awesome Tournament Winning List they have put together.

I gather you must use the exact same list in all three rounds?

From a financial and new models to paint to "tournament quality" point of view, I just wonder why you haven't included all of the models from Von Schill's box over buying additional models? If you had both Freikorpsmenn minions and the Steam Trunk totem anyway, why not throw them in instead of having to buy the Student of Conflict or Taelor? That is, of course, unless you already happen to have the Student and Taelor anyway?

Caveat: this "advice" comes from a complete n00b, who has not yet played a single game. So it requires a massive grain of salt, like the margarita glasses about which Milton was going to "put strychnine in the guacamole" at the end of Office Space:P

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1 minute ago, Raimu said:

You'd better just play Von Schill box + Strongarm Suit, than your list for starters. And Wave 5 upgrades for Schill is a must. 

Well, I don't know about a *must* particularly if the main goal is to just have fun. But Nythera Aftermath is a really fun card to play with.

I'd second the VS box + SS. More synergy and I think both you and your opponent would have more fun with SS (or Lazarus) than with Taelor.

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@Scatterbrain  I think it comes from when I played competitive Magic the Gathering and used to end up with a first round draw against people who didn't even know how to play the game.  It used to annoy me so I have a desire not to be the 'problem' in another system.

I understand that the event is only 'single faction' locked so the lists can change (as is the design of Malifaux) but that sounds like a step too far for me at the moment.  I'll accept the disadvantage of a locked list compared to the complexity of trying to properly build each round to the schemes and strats.  I may try and find out if the schemes and strats are going to be announced before the event to help with my practice.

I have all the models listed already (VS and Viks boxes plus a couple of other figures) and the tournament has waived the painting requirement so no worries on those counts.

EDIT:  Bonus points for getting an Office Space reference in there by the way.  :)

@Raimu I don't own the suit at the moment.  If you would be so kind as to explain your thinking I may invest in it.  Given it's GG2017 and Wave 4 models I'm not sure if the wave 5 upgrades are allowed.  I'll check.

@gribble  If it's a synergy thing then I'll look into the SS, thanks.

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16 minutes ago, Paul7926 said:

@Scatterbrain  I think it comes from when I played competitive Magic the Gathering and used to end up with a first round draw against people who didn't even know how to play the game.  It used to annoy me so I have a desire not to be the 'problem' in another system.

I understand that the event is only 'single faction' locked so the lists can change (as is the design of Malifaux) but that sounds like a step too far for me at the moment.  I'll accept the disadvantage of a locked list compared to the complexity of trying to properly build each round to the schemes and strats.  I may try and find out if the schemes and strats are going to be announced before the event to help with my practice.

I have all the models listed already (VS and Viks boxes plus a couple of other figures) and the tournament has waived the painting requirement so no worries on those counts.

EDIT:  Bonus points for getting an Office Space reference in there by the way.  :)

@Raimu I don't own the suit at the moment.  If you would be so kind as to explain your thinking I may invest in it.  Given it's GG2017 and Wave 4 models I'm not sure if the wave 5 upgrades are allowed.  I'll check.

@gribble  If it's a synergy thing then I'll look into the SS, thanks.

Because wave 5 upgrades and SS (and to go further Emissary too) are that things that help to bring Von Schil at least to subpar power level. I hardly find how anyone can have fun from being stomped into the ground by any other master.

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23 minutes ago, Paul7926 said:

@Raimu

Thanks.  I've checked and wave 5 upgrades are allowed so I'll investigate them and the SS.

Also consider taking Scout the field on SS, it helps him get faster to battle (free walk after initiative first turn) and later you can discard it to make 1 action without LoS, coupling with ignoring models and terrain on charge SS has, you can basically charge any model 9" away regardless of LoS and terrain. Works on Schill too, but he is tight in upgrades department to squeez it there.

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For sure swap Strongarm Suit in over Taelor.  He's much more bang for your buck in a VS crew.  VS is one of my main masters and I love him and SS together. I'll also second the notion that the Wave 5 upgrades are great for him, Nythera Aftermath is a go-to for me, and Oath of the Freikorps can generate some really ineresting synergy.  

As for the rest of your list, I think its really solid, though I'd recommend dropping Specialist as soon as you can.  Honestly I'd take another freikorpsman and take the extra stones to let VS be hyper agressive.  I find Specialist not worth it, unless you have the engineer to give him bonus armor and rams.  

As for future models to get, Sue is a must.  I'd also say Big Jake, cause he provides a ton of utlity and makes certain schemes super easy. 

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4 hours ago, FunWithKnives said:

VS (shirt, nythera, survivalist)

Lazarus, Libr, Johan, Sue, Strongarm (oathkeeper), Effigy/freilkorpsman.

Try this

Ah, yeah, forgot the effigy. Nice sturdy scheme runner which provides soft cover to hold territory and buffs Von Schill to gain some soulstones. And Von Schill with cache 1 loves additional stones.

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I would try to squeeze Nythera Aftermath and Oath of the Freikorps onto Von Schill, possibly with Engage at Will as the multiple (0)s tend to work with how I play. Survivalist is a pretty good third option too.

Use your first AP to put Oathkeeper on Von Schill. Now, after he damages a model, he's getting positive duel flips against them, which makes life a bit more fun. That applies to any model who has Oathkeeper, including non-Freikorps models like Johan and Ashes and Dust if you choose to take them, although obviously Von Schill can't reapply it to them if they drop it for Fast because they're not Freikorps.

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Again I'd like to thank everyone for the help in this thread. 

I've found my collection list although I don't think it changes anything.  The 10T models were bought from a friend so I have even less idea what they do then the Outcast models I have.  The Gremlins are from my first go at Malifaux and are the old metal ones so whilst I list them and have played them the most I'm not expanding them because I don't feel the old and new styles work together.

  • Viktoria of Ashes
  • Viktoria of Blood
  • Taelor
  • Student of Conflict
  • 3 Ronin
  • Von Schill
  • Steam Trunk
  • Librarian
  • Trapper
  • Specialist
  • 2 Freikorpsmenn
  • Vanessa 

 

  • Asami Tanaka
  • Amanjaku
  • Ohaguro Bettari
  • 3 Yokai
  • Shenlong
  • Sensei Yu
  • 2 Peasants
  • 3 Monks of High River
  • The Brewmaster
  • Apprentice Wesley
  • Fingers
  • 3 Moon Shinobi
  • 3 Monks of Low River
  • 2 Katanaka Snipers
  • Izamu, the Armor
  • 4 Tanuki

 

  • Ophelia
  • Francois
  • Raphael
  • Rami
  • Pere Ravagé
  • 3 Young Lacroix
  • 2 Slop Haulers
     

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Going from what You Currently own, your early list is not a bad choice. Von Shills new upgrades are certainly interesting, and if you can borrow them to try them, I would look at them. If not, then go with what you have. 

I would strongly  suggest the 2 generalist Upgrade decks are early purchases so you can see what they do. If you are looking to expand what you own before the event, then Hodgepodge effigy is good, as is Strong arm suit, but if you don't think you're getting in enough practise with them then don't worry about them. 

I might consider a Ronin over the Friekorps specialist, as the specialist is hard to get his worth from. On occasions he is great, but often he is slow and hard to use. I also like the Steam trunk, but if you have a plan with the Student of conflict, then its not a bad pick. Its biggest problem I find is that you need to plan in advance where you want it to be to give a model fast next turn. 

 

 

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I'm very lucky in that my local Henchman has a large collection and I'm sure that I can borrow upgrades as required from him for the day. 

I agree that I should get my own but I'm currently torn between getting the physical cards which I would prefer for playing the game or getting them for the app.  It makes more sense to get them on the app (can't get damaged, they update with changes, they don't need storage) but as I only have a smart phone and not a tablet I'm not sure how usable the app really is for playing the game instead of just building crews.

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4 hours ago, Paul7926 said:

Again I'd like to thank everyone for the help in this thread. 

I've found my collection list although I don't think it changes anything.  The 10T models were bought from a friend so I have even less idea what they do then the Outcast models I have.  The Gremlins are from my first go at Malifaux and are the old metal ones so whilst I list them and have played them the most I'm not expanding them because I don't feel the old and new styles work together.

  • Viktoria of Ashes
  • Viktoria of Blood
  • Taelor
  • Student of Conflict
  • 3 Ronin
  • Von Schill
  • Steam Trunk
  • Librarian
  • Trapper
  • Specialist
  • 2 Freikorpsmenn
  • Vanessa 

 

  • Asami Tanaka
  • Amanjaku
  • Ohaguro Bettari
  • 3 Yokai
  • Shenlong
  • Sensei Yu
  • 2 Peasants
  • 3 Monks of High River
  • The Brewmaster
  • Apprentice Wesley
  • Fingers
  • 3 Moon Shinobi
  • 3 Monks of Low River
  • 2 Katanaka Snipers
  • Izamu, the Armor
  • 4 Tanuki

 

  • Ophelia
  • Francois
  • Raphael
  • Rami
  • Pere Ravagé
  • 3 Young Lacroix
  • 2 Slop Haulers
     

Don't you consider playing Schenlong? You can build pretty good list with your minis compared to VS

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5 minutes ago, Raimu said:

Don't you consider playing Schenlong? You can build pretty good list with your minis compared to VS

Like I said all the Thunders models were bought from a friend who wanted out of Malifaux.  I've never played with any of them or have the slightest clue what they do.  

I picked Schill because whilst he is considered not to be very good the crew is also considered to be quite easy to pick up and play.  If a Schenlong list would not be more complicated then I have no objection to considering that.  I've no experience with the thunders but then I don't exactly have much more than that with the Outcasts if the truth be told.

The reason I'm here is to take advice and consider my options.

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13 minutes ago, Paul7926 said:

Like I said all the Thunders models were bought from a friend who wanted out of Malifaux.  I've never played with any of them or have the slightest clue what they do.  

I picked Schill because whilst he is considered not to be very good the crew is also considered to be quite easy to pick up and play.  If a Schenlong list would not be more complicated then I have no objection to considering that.  I've no experience with the thunders but then I don't exactly have much more than that with the Outcasts if the truth be told.

The reason I'm here is to take advice and consider my options.

Shenlong is more complicated.

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With your current list of Freikorps, you can add Strongarm and it would be a great addition. SS is quite easy to play and amazingly good. 

 

You could also add Sue and Hans, since both are really strong models for almost every Outcast Crew. Sue costs the same than the Specialist and is quite better. 

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Again I can't thank everyone enough for the advice and opinions I've received.

I'm certain to get hold of the SS after doing a little bit of research.

I'm also certain I'm going to drop the specialist although as yet I'm not sure what will go there.  Sue is a good call but as it's another purchase I may back fill the spot with things I own. (possibly Ronin) 

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Paul7926, I 100% agree with Scatterbrain about the Best Sportsperson award! 

It's important to remember that Malifaux is all about accomplishing schemes and strategies. Plenty of models have good stat lines and cool abilities. As you become experienced with the models you own and learn their pros and cons, you'll discover gaps in your collection that you want to fill. For example, the Ronin is a go-to model for me if I need to hold an objective because Disguised and Stand Ground force your opponent to spend a bunch of AP to get rid of them. If scheme running is important, I'll leave the Ronin at home and include models with mobility enhancers like Unimpeded and Incorporeal. I might buy two or three Oathkeepers in that situation as well, to get the benefit of Finish the Job.

Everyone's got favorite models that they use often. Someone else might not like those models because they don't fit that person's play style or synergize well with that person's other models. Sue is very popular, for example, but I've never felt the need to field him. Freikorpsmenn don't get much love here but they're great for me in a Von Schill crew. Other examples abound. I encourage you to learn the game, become familiar with your models, and then decide how to fill out your collection. Heck, in a few months you might discover that you have more fun with Shenlong or Asami and you don't want to add to your Outcast collection at all. 

I hope you have a great time at the tournament - let us know how it goes!

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@misterfinn

Thanks.  I mean I don't think I'm anything special as far as sportsmanship goes.  I just think that by the time you get to a tournament you can expect your opponent to know how to play the game.  I hold myself to the same standard I want from others.  I'm not talking about being a good player just knowing the rules and being able to play a game without constantly either asking things or making illegal plays out of lack of knowledge.

Anyway I totally agree with you about the importance of finding my own personal style and using the models that fit that.  It's what I had intended to do but this tournament puts a time limit on me where I think I need to reduce the number of variables by concentrating on a single list that isn't fantastically complex in terms of synergy and timing.  

I'm already sold on the SS as something I'll get and now I'm considering just back filling with my existing stuff to make the rest of the list.  From what I've read over the last couple of days that doesn't seem like a horrible starting point.

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