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How do we deal with the Viktorias ?


Rayzthedead

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First ill preface I am new to Rezzers, and my experience is limited. I was thinking over the masters in my local club and the Viktorias stand out as a bit of a problem in my mind. She is just going to whirlwind all our summons to death. What Masters do you take to cover your Outcast matchup? What tips or tricks do you have?

 

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I agree - bring Decaying Aura... somewhere. It's just really good against them since their main ways to survive are SS and healing. It feels expensive on Izamu at 12ss just for one attack but it could work. I think Bette Noire is a decent carrier as she has a nice big DF stat that might even make them miss her once in a while and she keeps coming back. Seamus and Reva are good carriers for it too.

I've had good success with Nicodem too. I focused on slowing them down with constant 'Undress' pressure from Belles and using Doxy pushes to keep away from the important stuff, while throwing a few Mindless Zombies in their way to keep them tied down. I put most of my good cards elsewhere, getting board presence and achieving Schemes while I try tie them down. If you see a chance to go after them you can summon in a decent attacking model like a Kentauroi or Shikome and just go nuts.

Whatever master you bring attack their hand, and force as many simple duels (Terrifying or Manipulative are decent) as you can. If they bring their new Burying upgrade it requires 2 discards already so if you can make them discard cards that can really adds up fast. 

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3 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

Take izamu with decaying aura and at least you will hit them back and they wont be able to prevent. Also Molly can reduce dmg to 1. Seamus can oneshot a vik with his gun and decaying aura.

Seamus might not be the best way as they can still use a SS on defense to get the Negative on damage if you do hit.  That way even if you Focus all they have to do is at least be within 1-5 to get double negative to offset the positive from the focus.  It will still hurt them something fierce and if they already got 3wds on them then all is good, but if they are at full health they stand a good chance of surviving.  For Seamus you might have to take at least one hit to your crew to try and soften one of them up for Seamus to finish.

For Nicodem, Molly, or Kirai consider Drowned for summons.  They have Resilient +2 which the Viks cannot ignore.  So without their +2 damage spell their impressive 3/4/6 damage spread is reduced to 1/2/4.  Another useful summon for Nicodem and Horror Molly are one of the Students as their Lecture Notes can shut down the Whirlwind trigger preventing them from threatening groups.  Others who might hire the Valedictorian who also has Lecture Notes with a Ca7 against Wp.  Also mentioned, anything that can dish out slow can slow down the Viks output.  Blood Vik only has Wp5 so she is a pretty good target for Belles and Nicodem's Rigor Mortis.  Nurses can also be useful here as they target Wp and can with the right condition neutralize a model's activation.

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Only in theory can Seamus 1 shot a Vik, and only if the Seamus player is exceptionally lucky, or he's playing against a bad viks player. Even If Seamus can take the shot (which against a good viks player you won't), and focuses, Vik player then spends 1 stone on defense and offsets your focus, so you likely won't be cheating for dmg.

Izamu won't live to attack them in general. He has low defense, and his only real defense the standard Vik build totally ignores.

I would argue most of the solutions offered here only work on bad Vik players. 

In order to beat the viks, at least in my experience you have to minimize how many models they can attack at once due to whirlwind, so your positioning game needs to be predicated on operating all you models so they never get close enough together for a Vik to get them both on the same turn, but close enough to support each other. Once a Vik lands you must neutralize her.

Additionally I find you generally have only 2 options for your game plan. Either have enough threats that can almost solo take out a Vik with enough vectors that once she commits she's dead, though of course you won't get to pick who dies.

Second option, bait them with an irresistible model that can hopefully survive a full melee round from a Vik, and then lock her down. The only model I've ever been able to do it with is Seamus, with the Hat, and that still usually burns the hat, and 3 to 4 stones to survive that turn, and I only have about... maybe about a 65% survival rate, and that was before some of their upgrades.

Ultimatley aside from just general good play there really isn't much you specifically can do against the Viks. They are a high risk high reward crew. A good Viks player with a little luck on their side beats just about everything. A good Viks player with bad luck could go either way but will still maul you hard if they don't win. A bad Viks player can go either way with good luck or just fold like a cheap tent with bad luck.

Best general pieces of advice, don't over invest in models or defenses whose costs are tied up in mechanics they ignore. Kill them immediately after their strike. Don't let them get an advantageous strike. 

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I often play a very good player locally that plays outcasts and Viks regularly. I have his standard list to speak about:

Leader: Viktoria of Ashes - Cache:(1)
   Oath Keeper 1ss 
   Survivalist 1ss 
   Sisters In Fury 2ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Viktoria of Blood 0ss 
   Oath Keeper 1ss 
   Mark of Shez'uul 2ss 
Johan 6ss 
Lazarus 10ss 
Vanessa 8ss 
   Oath Keeper 1ss 
Freikorps Librarian 7ss 
Hodgepodge Effigy 4ss 

I have been beaten by this list many times, so I am not an expert in surviving against it. I can talk about how he uses the list though. 

The Malifaux child puts the Viks +2 dmg buff up. 

The Librarian heals Vanessa so all the sisters heal. 

Johan cleans any conditions I put on, such as from a nurse or hanged.

He always goes in with Vik of Blood first to benefit from hand card defense buff early. Then follows with Ashes when his hand gets low.

He will often use his Oathkeeper late in the first turn to kill something that got too far forward or early in the 2nd.

He uses Lazarus to drag my models into charge range and apply slow.

In what order would you attack this crew to neutralize it as quickly as possible?

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5 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

Seamus might not be the best way as they can still use a SS on defense to get the Negative on damage if you do hit.  That way even if you Focus all they have to do is at least be within 1-5 to get double negative to offset the positive from the focus.  It will still hurt them something fierce and if they already got 3wds on them then all is good, but if they are at full health they stand a good chance of surviving.  For Seamus you might have to take at least one hit to your crew to try and soften one of them up for Seamus to finish.

For Nicodem, Molly, or Kirai consider Drowned for summons.  They have Resilient +2 which the Viks cannot ignore.  So without their +2 damage spell their impressive 3/4/6 damage spread is reduced to 1/2/4.  Another useful summon for Nicodem and Horror Molly are one of the Students as their Lecture Notes can shut down the Whirlwind trigger preventing them from threatening groups.  Others who might hire the Valedictorian who also has Lecture Notes with a Ca7 against Wp.  Also mentioned, anything that can dish out slow can slow down the Viks output.  Blood Vik only has Wp5 so she is a pretty good target for Belles and Nicodem's Rigor Mortis.  Nurses can also be useful here as they target Wp and can with the right condition neutralize a model's activation.

 

5 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Only in theory can Seamus 1 shot a Vik, and only if the Seamus player is exceptionally lucky, or he's playing against a bad viks player. Even If Seamus can take the shot (which against a good viks player you won't), and focuses, Vik player then spends 1 stone on defense and offsets your focus, so you likely won't be cheating for dmg.

Izamu won't live to attack them in general. He has low defense, and his only real defense the standard Vik build totally ignores.

I would argue most of the solutions offered here only work on bad Vik players. 

In order to beat the viks, at least in my experience you have to minimize how many models they can attack at once due to whirlwind, so your positioning game needs to be predicated on operating all you models so they never get close enough together for a Vik to get them both on the same turn, but close enough to support each other. Once a Vik lands you must neutralize her.

Additionally I find you generally have only 2 options for your game plan. Either have enough threats that can almost solo take out a Vik with enough vectors that once she commits she's dead, though of course you won't get to pick who dies.

Second option, bait them with an irresistible model that can hopefully survive a full melee round from a Vik, and then lock her down. The only model I've ever been able to do it with is Seamus, with the Hat, and that still usually burns the hat, and 3 to 4 stones to survive that turn, and I only have about... maybe about a 65% survival rate, and that was before some of their upgrades.

Ultimatley aside from just general good play there really isn't much you specifically can do against the Viks. They are a high risk high reward crew. A good Viks player with a little luck on their side beats just about everything. A good Viks player with bad luck could go either way but will still maul you hard if they don't win. A bad Viks player can go either way with good luck or just fold like a cheap tent with bad luck.

Best general pieces of advice, don't over invest in models or defenses whose costs are tied up in mechanics they ignore. Kill them immediately after their strike. Don't let them get an advantageous strike. 

Seamus can focus 2 Times. Kentauroi can bring him in the right place.

A well played viktoria has a dmg track of 5/6/8 with 4 atks and +to atk and dmg. A drowned wont survive this even with -2dmg.

Izamu has an ability to take an atk vs anything that killed him for free with + to dmg. 

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Honestly though.  The strat to beat the Viks is like every answer in Malifaux, it depends on (1) what is the scheme/strat pool (2) what have you got (3) what is the terrain (4) the random element of the deck - in that rough order.

Which model you go for depends on what you can get to quickly and eliminate/neutralize.  But obviously there are certain key targets.

  • Vik of Blood is very fragile, if you can lure (either with an actual lure or a sacrificial piece) her out or your opponent makes a mistake smack the angry out of her - but obviously they've got a heal option so don't commit the big beater unless you are confident of the kill because it won't survive a counter-attack by a unfortunately alive Blood.
  • Mali Child is a nice target if you have a range sniper and it is at all targetable, well worth the focus shot even in cover.
  • Johan is actually pretty vulnerable and if push comes to shove bring him out by forcing him to clear a condition on Blood and then nail him.

Those would be my primary targets.  Lazarus and Librarian are tough enough to kill you'd need a heavy commit and if Blood is still active she'll come and try to kill on a counter-attack or will press at your vulnerability while the beater is away.

Hodgepodge is also tough to kill for its points and overall contribution, if the opportunity presents sure kill it but I would not chase it.

Vik of Ashes will not come out to play unless its to try to bait something for a Blood chainsaw unless you opponent has taken leave of their senses.

Vanessa is a good target, almost made my priority list but she'll likely be very far back and is to big to shot kill her with one sniper, likely not worth the effort till you've broken at least one of the three.

However, REMEMBER the schemes and strats, if the Viks waste time killing, which they excel at while you score winning VP's that is a win - this is Malifaux, win by winning not by killing.  Also only 8 activations and several of them are very small and all up that is not a lot of wounds in the crew, you could play an activation and attrition game with a summoner very well, in which case Lazarus and his blast potential becomes a more important target.

On that note with the right crew you can wait till Vik of Blood activates, move a kill piece in and then play for initiative and double activate her dead.  But that is a move where the cards and luck can kill you.   

 

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Ressers have Bete, an upgrade and hanged to prevent healing so the standard Vik healspam can be challenged better than in most factions.

You should have plenty of nonessential models that can be resummoned so try to shield the essential ones and keep the Viks busy with killing disposable crap if you can.

Learn their threat ranges. Essential for anyone but my little helper can really take ressers to the next level in the denial game.

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11 minutes ago, Adran said:

Use Chaff to block charge lanes eitehr by stopping straight lines, or being in a place where they would eb engaged. Yes, they can kill the chaff, but it protects the important stuff, and a lot of things can kill Vik if she is in range.

But a good player will use bury tricks to get to any model he wants. And there is more then just scion of the void for this.

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6 minutes ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

But a good player will use bury tricks to get to any model he wants. And there is more then just scion of the void for this.

Yes, it is very hard to stop the Viks reaching who they want if they are well run., but most of the unburying tricks I know of don't allow chain activation putting the Vik at risk of retaliation. 

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Amazed no one has mentioned ashigaru.

2x Ashigaru and Anna Lovelace is my new go-to core if I suspect Viks, just hope you don't get Misaki'd instead...

In terms of playing the game regardless of what you took, my thoughts are currently:

Taking on the Viks is nuclear war with the clock at midnight.

Viks have among the highest 'priority' game plan in Malifaux. Vik of Blood (VoB) with all the trimmings is probably #1 in the game in terms of one-round model removal. This means that the Viks' game plan (we are imagining they are being piloted by a competent player) will almost certainly trump yours if you try to do your own thing or ignore it. You don't have time to be the UN, they just need to defer the problem for another generation, you have 5 turns. Play the Vik's game or die. Accept this.

So a game against the Viks is Malifaux with an extra scheme in the pool, I think of this as a minigame called The Blood Dance. The Vik player has to cripple your crew with the VoB and you have to kill her before she does this. The Blood Dance is high risk/high reward for both sides (the one who messes it up is probably screwed). It's the Vik's game so they have certain advantages - namely they are the ones with the finger on the big red button - but it is not all one way and there are restrictions for them too.

The blast radius: Whirlwind is a thing, try to minimise collateral damage by spacing models more than 5" apart where possible. Terrain usually hampers this, watch out for choke points. Don't sweeten the Vik's deal by bunching up around important models. Do honey the trap and bunch some cheap unimportant minions together, maybe you can bait VoB in. Keep your beaters within charge range of each other - 6" triangle of DOOM formation is great if you can maintain it.

The count down: just like with any everyday nuclear strike there are various protocols to follow before you get to quote the Bhagavad-Gita. Arming VoB with malifaux child's sisters in fury, and positioning her with some pushes and VoA's sisters in spirit have to happen first (beware the chain activation from VoA though), and normally the Vik player will want her going as near last activation turn 1 as possible. This means that 4 or 5 activations in you can usually begin to tell (and potentially control) where Blood is starting to be pointed. If you can delay activating important models past this point this reduces Blood's target options, or else you have some time to prepare to receive and counter. Consider that Molly Joybomb takes a minimum of 2 activations to launch, if you fancy some mutually assured destruction.

Taunting Vik Jong Un: Nukes are a little more scary if they are actually in range to hit something. Different Vik upgrades and crew composition give Blood different threat ranges, I'm sure some of the helpful people on this forum can go into further detail on this. Make sure you know where VoB can go, usually this is most of the table, but 'most' is not the same as 'all'. Use terrain to block the attack run, or at least chew up her AP. I tend to think luring her or enemy models that could support her closer is not worth it, but putting up a nice tasty model, watching the launch machinery get going then luring it back to safety is definitely worth considering. The ideal scenario is to have a juicy target in range for only one attack - tempt her in on bad terms! Some juvenile name calling might help. 

Soaring Dragon is worth a little attention as it changes the minigame a little, basically VoB has declared the intention of surviving the first strike to rain glorious death on you the rest of what will be a very short game. She very likely won't be prepared to suicide extend turn 1, this should allow you to take ground and position more aggressively to weather fallout. Need more experience before commenting further on how to deal with this.      

Flak: Lets face it chances of our ranged missile defences shooting VoB down on her way in are pretty low, time to put up those meat shields! Block charge lanes and bottlenecks with something cheap and unimportant to your plans. Not too far up that something else can clear it for her, or VoA's place can bypass it, not in 5" of your important stuff. Giving her only bad targets either forces her to commit and bounce, or dundundun spend a turn not killing stuff whilst the net closes. I feel learning to do this well is probably the single most important tactic to dealing with her.    

Moving Seoul: It is easier to maintain pressure when something you care about isn't literally staring into the gun barrel. In worst case scenario and there is nothing between the two of you, and for some reason you have nothing to flak with, there is no shame in just walking (or luring!) backwards. Obviously not ideal as it may allow the enemy to claim more of the table, but having that space to reposition can be better than just losing stuff on your opponents terms. Hopefully you picked schemes that don't pressure you to score early. 

Disarmament: Try to kill VoB in a single activation. Viks usually have a lot of healing, but only 7 wounds (which is why double brace for the charge aura is so amazing). If you can't kill her in one go, bombard her with absolutely everything until she goes down. Simple to say, and if you kept formation (triangles of DOOM!) not too difficult to do. Decaying aura is your best friend (but also Vik target #1), chain activation is strong, fast is great, as are non-randomised shooting and Wp targeting attacks. She hates disengaging triggers, splash damage, horror and manipulative checks, and conditions (slow and paralyse etc.). 

Obviously a lot of focus on VoB, but once she is dead you can start playing Malifaux normally. Taking out VoA is pretty much just as good, but she is usually much harder to get too. If The Blood Dance went well (rule of thumb you lost <10ss) you should be in a decent position to take the day. 

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2 hours ago, mo11usq said:

Amazed no one has mentioned ashigaru.

2x Ashigaru and Anna Lovelace is my new go-to core if I suspect Viks, just hope you don't get Misaki'd instead...

In terms of playing the game regardless of what you took, my thoughts are currently:

Taking on the Viks is nuclear war with the clock at midnight.

Viks have among the highest 'priority' game plan in Malifaux. Vik of Blood (VoB) with all the trimmings is probably #1 in the game in terms of one-round model removal. This means that the Viks' game plan (we are imagining they are being piloted by a competent player) will almost certainly trump yours if you try to do your own thing or ignore it. You don't have time to be the UN, they just need to defer the problem for another generation, you have 5 turns. Play the Vik's game or die. Accept this.

So a game against the Viks is Malifaux with an extra scheme in the pool, I think of this as a minigame called The Blood Dance. The Vik player has to cripple your crew with the VoB and you have to kill her before she does this. The Blood Dance is high risk/high reward for both sides (the one who messes it up is probably screwed). It's the Vik's game so they have certain advantages - namely they are the ones with the finger on the big red button - but it is not all one way and there are restrictions for them too.

The blast radius: Whirlwind is a thing, try to minimise collateral damage by spacing models more than 5" apart where possible. Terrain usually hampers this, watch out for choke points. Don't sweeten the Vik's deal by bunching up around important models. Do honey the trap and bunch some cheap unimportant minions together, maybe you can bait VoB in. Keep your beaters within charge range of each other - 6" triangle of DOOM formation is great if you can maintain it.

The count down: just like with any everyday nuclear strike there are various protocols to follow before you get to quote the Bhagavad-Gita. Arming VoB with malifaux child's sisters in fury, and positioning her with some pushes and VoA's sisters in spirit have to happen first (beware the chain activation from VoA though), and normally the Vik player will want her going as near last activation turn 1 as possible. This means that 4 or 5 activations in you can usually begin to tell (and potentially control) where Blood is starting to be pointed. If you can delay activating important models past this point this reduces Blood's target options, or else you have some time to prepare to receive and counter. Consider that Molly Joybomb takes a minimum of 2 activations to launch, if you fancy some mutually assured destruction.

Taunting Vik Jong Un: Nukes are a little more scary if they are actually in range to hit something. Different Vik upgrades and crew composition give Blood different threat ranges, I'm sure some of the helpful people on this forum can go into further detail on this. Make sure you know where VoB can go, usually this is most of the table, but 'most' is not the same as 'all'. Use terrain to block the attack run, or at least chew up her AP. I tend to think luring her or enemy models that could support her closer is not worth it, but putting up a nice tasty model, watching the launch machinery get going then luring it back to safety is definitely worth considering. The ideal scenario is to have a juicy target in range for only one attack - tempt her in on bad terms! Some juvenile name calling might help. 

Soaring Dragon is worth a little attention as it changes the minigame a little, basically VoB has declared the intention of surviving the first strike to rain glorious death on you the rest of what will be a very short game. She very likely won't be prepared to suicide extend turn 1, this should allow you to take ground and position more aggressively to weather fallout. Need more experience before commenting further on how to deal with this.      

Flak: Lets face it chances of our ranged missile defences shooting VoB down on her way in are pretty low, time to put up those meat shields! Block charge lanes and bottlenecks with something cheap and unimportant to your plans. Not too far up that something else can clear it for her, or VoA's place can bypass it, not in 5" of your important stuff. Giving her only bad targets either forces her to commit and bounce, or dundundun spend a turn not killing stuff whilst the net closes. I feel learning to do this well is probably the single most important tactic to dealing with her.    

Moving Seoul: It is easier to maintain pressure when something you care about isn't literally staring into the gun barrel. In worst case scenario and there is nothing between the two of you, and for some reason you have nothing to flak with, there is no shame in just walking (or luring!) backwards. Obviously not ideal as it may allow the enemy to claim more of the table, but having that space to reposition can be better than just losing stuff on your opponents terms. Hopefully you picked schemes that don't pressure you to score early. 

Disarmament: Try to kill VoB in a single activation. Viks usually have a lot of healing, but only 7 wounds (which is why double brace for the charge aura is so amazing). If you can't kill her in one go, bombard her with absolutely everything until she goes down. Simple to say, and if you kept formation (triangles of DOOM!) not too difficult to do. Decaying aura is your best friend (but also Vik target #1), chain activation is strong, fast is great, as are non-randomised shooting and Wp targeting attacks. She hates disengaging triggers, splash damage, horror and manipulative checks, and conditions (slow and paralyse etc.). 

Obviously a lot of focus on VoB, but once she is dead you can start playing Malifaux normally. Taking out VoA is pretty much just as good, but she is usually much harder to get too. If The Blood Dance went well (rule of thumb you lost <10ss) you should be in a decent position to take the day. 

Haha I have to admit, as a main vik player and huge fan of your youtube channel (Btw can't wait for more episodes =D) I love your explanation of the gamestate in a viks game. I think a vik game is indeed about who can play their game better. I've played a lot with Marlena Webster lately and it makes sending VoA in first and then chaining into VoB pretty safe. Usually the models with armor and incorporeal are gone when blood dies and Ashes can easily handle the rest with marlena and the nothing beast as backup. 
I'd say try to feed VoB the unarmored targets and keep your tanks safe, so when shes dead you can stand up against the rest of the crew which doesnt have that many ways to deal with armor anymore.

As a Vik player your kind of at the opposite of this scheme. When I see the board I look at threatening models that can be a problem for my viks. And I will certainly kill them before they can activate and then deal with the rest of the crew.

I have to say I had an absolute nightmare of a time when I was facing a Rasputina crew with that stupid defense trigger to end the viks activation. Also Molly with her ability to sacrifice her killer is crazy.

Also wouku raiders are absolute beast vs the viks since the only way to survive a vik is not to get hit a lot.

Ashigaru and Yamaziko seem like a really good shot with brace yari.

Unfortunately none of those are in Ressers. Using summoned Hanged as blockers would be pretty good since horror duels are good vs the viks.

And I would bring Aionus against any Outcast crew.

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18 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

 

Seamus can focus 2 Times. Kentauroi can bring him in the right place.

A well played viktoria has a dmg track of 5/6/8 with 4 atks and +to atk and dmg. A drowned wont survive this even with -2dmg.

Izamu has an ability to take an atk vs anything that killed him for free with + to dmg. 

If Seamus is being carted by the Kentauroi then they will have an opening to prevent him from shooting as him and the Kentauroi lack companion or Accomplice.  The only way this will work is if they can out activate the Viks enough that you can activate the Kentauroi and Seamus after everything in the Outcasts have gone.  Otherwise any model can engage Seamus after he is moved by the Kentauroi preventing him from being able to take the shot unless he frees himself from combat which will generally take at least 1 AP to do so.  Even the new upgrade "Do you Know who I am?" (0) action will not help as the model will take the Horror Duel from ending a walk engaged with Seamus making them immune to the Horror Duel from his Boo! action *and thus don't have to worry about the trigger*.  At that point he will not be able to focus twice unless he has fast somehow.  Again I think Seamus will only be able to pull this off if the Vik already has 3wds and you have a 13 in hand to make sure you hit *and pray they don't have the RJ*.

A Drowned does not have to survive, they just have to take 2 hits to die to be useful.  If something you summoned can take two hits from a Vik then it can slow said Vik down and prevent them from doing as much damage to the crew as a whole *or force them to pop Oathkeeper to try and accomplish more*.  Now if the Viks go all MAX then yes, there is a good chance they can take a Drowned down in one hit if it is not at full life, but that means they activated at the Very Least the Malifaux Child already and are going with the Blood Vik who is over 6" from Vik of Ash and they are likely dropping two Face cards to do it.  Nico, Molly, and Kirai summon one on a 10:crow *or 10 + a SS* with out any bonuses.  For a beefed up Vik to kill a Drowned in one hit they need to get Severe damage, if they lack the +2 damage then they need a severe and a moderate or Three moderates.  Drowned also have Df6 giving them a chance of forcing the Vik player to drop cards to insure they hit.  Is this a perfect counter? Heavens no.  Nothing is a perfect counter to the Viks.  But it is something that gives them more trouble than most things and possible give you time to complete your goals.

Izamu is also Ml6, against Vik of Blood she is Default Df6 as well, possible Df7 if the Vik of Ash is within 2" and using her Aura.  If the Vik again uses a SS for Defense and makes sure the totals are within 1-5, Izamu will be at double negative meaning he will not be able to cheat with his single positive.  There is a good chance you will only get 3 damage out of this.

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To add to the above if Seamus is near the kentauroi that can also screw his shot up as models can get safety via randomization. You focus twice, shoot into combat, and then might randomize onto your own model. Not very good play in my opinion. And even if you randomize onto the vik you have to hit her. Seamus needs high cards to hit and do large dmg, the reverse is not true for the Viks. They can hit you as well as do massive dmg with middling and low cards. It is very easy for them to save their highest card for defense against his single shot each turn.

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If you have the time, borrowing a Viks crew and playing a few times is a great way to learn their weaknesses.

You really need to control the "flow" of the game and attack the Viks on your terms.

It all comes down to activation control. And not giving them the opportunity to kill your key pieces. Know the threat range. Only enter it with expendable models. Make it very hard for them to engage more than 1 model at once.

Either strike first at the end of turn 1 or 2 after you have forced viks to activate.

Or strike 2nd on your terms. It's okay to hold your key models back and forfeit some position on turn 1. Move forward expendable models. But you must make your aggressive move by the end of turn 2 (and chances are end of turn 2 is too late if they've alpha striked)-  because by then they can likely attack anything. You may need to wait until turn 3 to start scoring schemes. Maybe you will have to forfeit the strat VP on turn 2. It's okay. Viks do not play the long game.

If worst comes to worst and you are in a brawl with the Viks, at the beginning of a turn look at what model "Sisters in Fury" is on. Usually on Vik o Ash. Opponent usually wants to activate Malifaux Child to steal the (1) action on "Sisters in Fury" from the master which gives +2 to damage. This gives you an advantage with initiative. If the Viks are in trouble your opponent may need to activate them before the Malifaux child. This either causes Vik o Ash to lose (1) AP to get the cast off, or the Viks may just go with min 3 damage - which isn't as scary. If you have your choice of vik, usually take out "Sisters in Fury" Vik first if it hasn't been casted that turn.

 

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12 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

If Seamus is being carted by the Kentauroi then they will have an opening to prevent him from shooting as him and the Kentauroi lack companion or Accomplice.  The only way this will work is if they can out activate the Viks enough that you can activate the Kentauroi and Seamus after everything in the Outcasts have gone.  Otherwise any model can engage Seamus after he is moved by the Kentauroi preventing him from being able to take the shot unless he frees himself from combat which will generally take at least 1 AP to do so.  Even the new upgrade "Do you Know who I am?" (0) action will not help as the model will take the Horror Duel from ending a walk engaged with Seamus making them immune to the Horror Duel from his Boo! action *and thus don't have to worry about the trigger*.  At that point he will not be able to focus twice unless he has fast somehow.  Again I think Seamus will only be able to pull this off if the Vik already has 3wds and you have a 13 in hand to make sure you hit *and pray they don't have the RJ*.

A Drowned does not have to survive, they just have to take 2 hits to die to be useful.  If something you summoned can take two hits from a Vik then it can slow said Vik down and prevent them from doing as much damage to the crew as a whole *or force them to pop Oathkeeper to try and accomplish more*.  Now if the Viks go all MAX then yes, there is a good chance they can take a Drowned down in one hit if it is not at full life, but that means they activated at the Very Least the Malifaux Child already and are going with the Blood Vik who is over 6" from Vik of Ash and they are likely dropping two Face cards to do it.  Nico, Molly, and Kirai summon one on a 10:crow *or 10 + a SS* with out any bonuses.  For a beefed up Vik to kill a Drowned in one hit they need to get Severe damage, if they lack the +2 damage then they need a severe and a moderate or Three moderates.  Drowned also have Df6 giving them a chance of forcing the Vik player to drop cards to insure they hit.  Is this a perfect counter? Heavens no.  Nothing is a perfect counter to the Viks.  But it is something that gives them more trouble than most things and possible give you time to complete your goals.

Izamu is also Ml6, against Vik of Blood she is Default Df6 as well, possible Df7 if the Vik of Ash is within 2" and using her Aura.  If the Vik again uses a SS for Defense and makes sure the totals are within 1-5, Izamu will be at double negative meaning he will not be able to cheat with his single positive.  There is a good chance you will only get 3 damage out of this.

Seamus has -2wp terrifying checks which is great vs the viks and he has a hat to stop a whirlwind. Also there are other ways to give seamus an additional focus. 

I'm not saying he autowins vs them but he puts way more pressure on them as other resser masters in my opinion. Seamus and a hanged work pretty well as a tag team vs the viks. 

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Actually you are not building a crew against Vicks as you dont know they are gonna be on the table for sure. In my painful experience good vick players and good arcanist alpha strike players wont be lured easily by dispensable models or expose themselves to an effective retaliation. Countering them from a resser point of view is very difficult and makes you play losing lots of tempo. 

Also I dont believe you can win in malifaux being utterly destroyed in turn 3. Those are my worst match ups for sure. 

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