Neverborn Lucius

[Dimitri]

Hey chaps,

I am aim to buy lucius' box but i play neverborn.

So i have some questions on how to buy guild models for his "surprisingly loyal" upgrade.

Question: do you think this upgrade really adds some value on neverborn playstyle? And if yes, then what models are worth collecting/painting.

I intent to collect all neverborn models so i want peoples opinion before i start collecting out of faction models.

Thanks!

[Ludvig]

Guild pathfinders are very good in my opinion. Master Queef can be very useful.

People seem to think Terra-cotta Warriors are amazing, I haven't really tried them.

If you don't want guardsmen you don't really need them, he has so many options in neverborn.

[Dimitri]

Thanks for the reply man! 

[H4ml3t]

I'm new to NB and Lucius so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I've used Guild Hounds to good effect but you could use Corrupted Hounds to similar effect and stay within NB. I think a case could be made for hiring a Guild Austringer but I haven't tried it yet. 

Off topic, but Lucius has good synergy with a Freikorps Trapper. Issue Command with a Ram to give the Trapper a Focused shot. Alternately have the Trapper out of LOS, Issue Command with the built in Mask for a 3" push to line up a shot and then the Trapper uses it's Trigger to push after shooting to go back into hiding. 

[Ludvig]

He can definitely use a trapper but it has nothing to do with surprisingly loyal.  

I have heard people who like to do the surprise rifleman gunline in neverborn claiming it worked well for them. I have never tried it myself, I declare neverborn because I want to play monsters. I usually don't have a problem of people bringing anti-sh tech when I declare guild either because most my opponents know I always go heavy into ml damage dealers there too.

[I'm a Teapot!]

So my bit on Neverborn Lucius:

Neverborn is a tricky faction and so is the theme of neverborn lucius compared to his guild version.

A few things you can do with Neverborn Lucius (Those are just combos, by no means a finished list or anything 100% viable):

- Terracotta warriors are Lucius toys in neverborn. They protect your glasscannony Neverborns with their conditions. Well, Lelu and Lilithu share conditions so you can protect both by protecting one.

- So Neverborn can give him a Widow Weaver and her Handbag. But you need scrap for her Summoning??? Take a Guild Pathfinder and Summon a Trap. Take the new, lovely Wave 5 Ferdinand Vogel and Turn into The Beast Within. Kill that trap and get 2 scrap markers. Turn 2 summon a Teddy. 

- The Tooth and a Rougarou. Very common pair these days. Push and Pounce causes nightmares with those 2 models and Lucius got so many ways to use this combo again and again. 

- Wave 5: Blutgunin. Lucius obey has a built in trigger to push someone and let him make a (1) action. But he can also choose to make the action and then push 3", which is what those little big hitters want. Walk 6, push into engagement with 1,2,3,...x enemies, discard x cards and do x Ml6 3/4/5 atks (to different models). And all for 1 Lucius ap and with a 5ss Minion. 

 

[Dimitri]

I really like the terracotta warrior idea! Could be great with mature and young nephelim! 

Have you used terracotta with lucius before? How many you bring normally to do the trick?

[Dimitri]

I also find very sneaky the idea with the riflemen but i suppose you must see the terrain opportunity first otherwise gunlines can be neutrilised fast. 

Do you play captain dashel with the gunline normally?

[Vorschlag]

The best hires from guild in my opinion are:

Pathfinders we like having access to explosions and traps and ignoring armour or hard to wound.

Austringers mainly for card discard and deliver orders but vendetta is coming back

Mr Queeg - push combo with pounces, extra leap or trap drop etc.

- makes the tooth and rougarou thing so much crueler.

Guild hounds- scheme marker set up - issue commands -push out 1pt  charge on + flips from Lucius

Mounted guard  + defense flips, charge combo with rougarou etc.

Lawyers - hard to wound on glass cannons

 

Dashel, riflemen, sergeant, guardsmen and terracotta warrior have done nothing for me so far in neverborn.

[le_sphinx]

5 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

- Wave 5: Blutgunin. Lucius obey has a built in trigger to push someone and let him make a (1) action. But he can also choose to make the action and then push 3", which is what those little big hitters want. Walk 6, push into engagement with 1,2,3,...x enemies, discard x cards and do x Ml6 3/4/5 atks (to different models). And all for 1 Lucius ap and with a 5ss Minion. 

OMG! That’s awesome! I thought Bultungin can make only one (2) attack action per one push/move. So he can do it for each engaged enemy model! Really nice, but this can seriously drain your hand

[Ludvig]

2 hours ago, Dimitri said:

I also find very sneaky the idea with the riflemen but i suppose you must see the terrain opportunity first otherwise gunlines can be neutrilised fast. 

Do you play captain dashel with the gunline normally?

Only in guild. I have taken Dashel and two riflemen a few times. It usually ends up with the riflemen getting to shoot one activation before they die to something. Sometimes that is enough to take out or put a large dent in something important.

[I'm a Teapot!]

2 hours ago, le_sphinx said:

OMG! That’s awesome! I thought Bultungin can make only one (2) attack action per one push/move. So he can do it for each engaged enemy model! Really nice, but this can seriously drain your hand

And now think about what this means in a Zoraida crew that can give the Blutgunin +2Ml dmg with a nurse and push it 3 times its walk by interacting with a vodoo doll that hemmed the blutgunin. And she has lots of cards if she used bewitch correctly. (Min 5 kinda feels like your playing the viks, but with a 5ss minion)
 

[Vorschlag]

The only mimic I would say not worth investing in is beckoners.

All the others are beneficial if situational.

Sadly for a beckoners cost I can get more out of a performer which is sad for themed or fluff lists but who knows maybe Lucius likes the occasional  dancing  girl.

Looking forward to trying out Vogel and the investigator.

[MCOLL81]

2 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

The only mimic I would say not worth investing in is beckoners.

I'll disagree, knowing I'm the odd one out on this one, as the general consensus is they're overcosted, but I've rarely been disappointed bringing in a Beckoner.

[Vorschlag]

Don't get me wrong lure is  better than sirens call and their trigger is wonderful but unless you take illuminated -which I refuse to do-I can't see them shining.

[Ludvig]

They give some great mobility turn 1 and in a cramped board state the lure is infinitely better than the push but you pay a lot for a squishy model and they can't paralyze like the performers can under the right conditions. Feels yo me like they're 6,5 and illuminated are 7,5. Since I run illuminated with Lucius is include them sometimes. I'd find it hard to motivate them otherwise.

 

[Angelshard]

Useless duplications  makes beckoners a lot harder to take out. Especially in a Lucius crew where you have arcane reservoir so you can afford to discard an extra card.

I'm not sure Vogel is worth it in neverborn, he's great in guild where you have the jury for his triggers, but for neverborn I'm not sure he can justify his cost.

[Adran]

18 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

- Wave 5: Blutgunin. Lucius obey has a built in trigger to push someone and let him make a (1) action. But he can also choose to make the action and then push 3", which is what those little big hitters want. Walk 6, push into engagement with 1,2,3,...x enemies, discard x cards and do x Ml6 3/4/5 atks (to different models). And all for 1 Lucius ap and with a 5ss Minion. 

 

I don't read the ability as being usable multiple times from 1 push. But Its still pretty good, you get to make the 1 action and the 2 action attack, and if the model has some form of damage reduction and you get the trigger, you can get a second (2) action attack (if you used the 1 action to attack). 

[I'm a Teapot!]

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

I don't read the ability as being usable multiple times from 1 push. But Its still pretty good, you get to make the 1 action and the 2 action attack, and if the model has some form of damage reduction and you get the trigger, you can get a second (2) action attack (if you used the 1 action to attack). 

It doesn't say once per turn, it doesnt say "...against one enemy model" and its kind of designed to be the opposite of a pounce, which is usable on multiple enemies aswell. And it has a discard to limit the efficiency.

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

It doesn't say once per turn, it doesnt say "...against one enemy model" and its kind of designed to be the opposite of a pounce, which is usable on multiple enemies aswell. And it has a discard to limit the efficiency.

I don't have the book to hand, so last beta file has this

When this model ends a push or move in engagement range of an enemy model, if that movement or push  was not part of a Walk or Charge Action, this model may discard a card to immediately take a (2) AP Ml Attack Action against the enemy model without spending AP.

which talks about happening on ended a push. So you get to use that ability every time you end a push (or move that isn't a walk or charge) that ends in engagement. That doesn't give permission to do it mulitple times from 1 push. 

[I'm a Teapot!]

Let's say you push into base contact with both a Nekima and Lilith. You then successfully ended a push in Nekimas engagementrange, the ability triggers. You also ended a push in Lilith's engagmentrange which opens another windows for the ability to trigger. 

My understanding is that the ability doesnt allow to do 2 atks from a single push in one use of the ability, but the ability simply triggers 2 times because there is nothing restricting it from not triggering again, because the "When this model ends a push or move in engagement range of an enemy model" part doesnt say once or anything like that.

I guess its something for a January FAQ  =D

[MCOLL81]

10 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

Don't get me wrong lure is  better than sirens call and their trigger is wonderful but unless you take illuminated -which I refuse to do-I can't see them shining.

I was taking them in Guild with Lucius, so no Illuminated. 

Not every model needs to shine. Some just need to do their job. She does hers. And sometimes, given the Strats & Schemes and board state, that can make all the difference.

The two are both interesting choices for Lucius though. The Performer does have an added bonus on her death in a Lucius crew since there is likely a Minion around to Reactivate. The Beckoner has the advantage of being able to be issued a command 6" further away from Lucius. Or if she is close to him, can use her additional wounds to soak up some more Devil's Deal damage - which can help alleviate some of the pain of paying 1SS more for the Beckoner.

[wizuriel]

Lucius I find works pretty well with growlists.

He can command the Black Blood Shaman to get a lot of extra pulstates, change places with terror tots / youngs to get them in better positions and inspire Nekima to move or get an attack.

 

list I tried was

Lucius

• Deep Pockets
• On Wings of Darkness

Primordial Magic

Nekima

• Thousand Faces
• Rapid Growth

Doppleganger

Lilitu

• Thousand Faces

Black Blood Shaman

2x Terror Tot

 

Trick is either Nekima gets kills to grow models, or she weakens them and then the Shaman + Lucius throw enough pustules on her to kill the target so you can summon a terror tot (and then use the corpse to grow it). 

[Ludvig]

@MCOLL81 but the thread title is Neverborn Lucius. What an outrage!

The added range on the actual action and being able to make people clear cover is pretty significant as well.

[H4ml3t]

@MCOLL81 plays a strong game with Red Lucius. Maybe one day he'll see the light and come to the Purple Lucius side. 😉