Malifaux - what next?

[wobbly_goggy]

Well there seems to be a lot of talk (OK, some) about M3, when it arrives, what it should contain, power creep, saturation and the usual internet grumblings.

All fine and dandy, and with the number of minis and masters currently available I can see how it may be difficult to invent new roles, araeas to be covered within factions and so forth.

So here is my bright idea for the next Wave, to shake things up, explore new play styles and keep the game fresh! (I say wave, as I am in the 'keep M2 camp, but we're not getting into that here)

Instead of new Masters...new totems. Especially generic faction totems. (yes there are the effigies, but that's different)

That's basically it. New totems, kind of in a similar way to new upgrades, I feel could help give more options to how a master or a crew is played. Plug holes in masters' abilities (Brewie with option for a totem, maybe even a free one, that makes TT hiring cheaper for example?), tweak play style, whatever.

They also wouldn't be competing for upgrade slots with what's available, it would just give you more choice in totem picking, which is a problem I enjoy as a gremlin player, as Old Cranky is awesome. 

Or 'second' totems that can be hired in addition to the existing one?

Thoughts?

Ideas for new totems?

Or is this too barmy?

[Adran]

So kind of like the effigies used to be in 1st edition. 

Not sure that a new generic totem will shake up a faction too much. And I'm not sure that there is the market for a new totem for each master, after all the reason Totems got moved to the crew boxes in plastic was because they weren't selling enough when separate. 

[wobbly_goggy]

23 minutes ago, Adran said:

So kind of like the effigies used to be in 1st edition. 

Not sure that a new generic totem will shake up a faction too much. And I'm not sure that there is the market for a new totem for each master, after all the reason Totems got moved to the crew boxes in plastic was because they weren't selling enough when separate. 

I guess so. 

Good points... 

What about 2 or 3 new generic totems per faction?

If the totem changed play style and had the card (no need for new cards/upgrade deck/errata on master card) if that would encourage sales?

[Ludvig]

They would have to be pretty OP filth to edge out a lot of master totems and certain generic ones *cough* primordialmagic *cough*.

Maybe hugeass models that cost a lot of stones and completely changed the masters playstyle could work. Maybe they could appear mid game when you met certain conditions like growing an amount of tots for Lilith or something. Kind of like avatars.

Apart from the needing to be OP part new totems are a possibility. If they came in a pack of seven totems for a faction and all looked amazing and were ridculously good the set might be profitable.

[wobbly_goggy]

4 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

They would have to be pretty OP filth to edge out a lot of master totems and certain generic ones *cough* primordialmagic *cough*.

Maybe hugeass models that cost a lot of stones and completely changed the masters playstyle could work. Maybe they could appear mid game when you met certain conditions like growing an amount of tots for Lilith or something. Kind of like avatars.

Apart from the needing to be OP part new totems are a possibility. If they came in a pack of seven totems for a faction and all looked amazing and were ridculously good the set might be profitable.

Hahaha Avatars? Hmmmmm! Only if we can have the lovely Marcus Avatar back.
What would new master avatars look like? (especially Zipp!)

The whole pack idea is actually really good!!!! 
Not sure they'd need to be OP, maybe change the play style, hiring restrictions etc if possible... ie interesting and new but not OP. If such a thing is possible...

[Fetid Strumpet]

Or how about just redesigning the totems that exist and creating new sculpts for them? I know Mouse, CCk, Shang and a few others pretty much pale in comparison to strong master totems like the Printing press, the Soul Porter or Day Dreams and frankly of all the things that would be beneficial and easy to fix I would argue these would return most bang for buck, especially if you sold the experienced ones in a faction pack.

[Phinn]

6 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

I would like to see new upgrades for henchmen, maybe ones that could only be used when chosen as a leader

It definitely sounds interesting but since Malifaux is most balanced when played at 50 SS I, personally, would prefer if that wasn't the case.

[-Loki-]

35 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Or how about just redesigning the totems that exist and creating new sculpts for them? I know Mouse, CCk, Shang and a few others pretty much pale in comparison to strong master totems like the Printing press, the Soul Porter or Day Dreams and frankly of all the things that would be beneficial and easy to fix I would argue these would return most bang for buck, especially if you sold the experienced ones in a faction pack.

If they're updating d totems I'd rather see it done as an errata.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Much more likely to happen, given the size of the time required to do such work if they can sell something to make a profit on it though and people like alternate sculpts of things. So I doubt very highly if they care enough about fixing weak totems to devote time to it unless they can also sell something.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I play Seamus a lot. I've been a very vocal defender of the CCK. At present as you said you are paying 3 SS for an ineffectual attack piece who maybe 1 or 2 games in 10 has an actual measurable benefit on the game. Compare to the Printing press, daydreams, the soul porter, Banasuva, The Hungering Darkness, peasants, Hollow Waifs, The Cherub, marionettes, the voodoo doll, the enslaved nephilim.  

At the moment the CCK is valuable as a 3 SS activation that maybe, occasionally does something, maybe. That's what he is. The best totems in my experience do something to support the master they belong to, or support the play style of the master in an integral way. The CCK doesn't. Wyrd could have gone that way with him, but didn't. An equivilant totem at the moment in my opinion is the Gorar. In theory full of wonderful value as it could give you back a good minion. But it isn't exactly difficult to kill, which could give the opponent points, and you have to ask yourself if the 3 SS for the slight loss of tempo for  the opponent to kill it (assuming they are just killing it to stop it working and not getting vp) is worth it.

At the Beginning of M2E I would have argued yes it's worth it, and did, however the game has gotten faster, with crew ending strikes now potentially happening on turn 1, and the AP spent to do anything has gotten more and more efficient. I don't think the tempo lose is all that much of a hinderence anymore, especially since wiping them out might also get you vp.

I know not every master is not going to be competitive, but I do feel that expecting every totem be about as useful to its master as any other one is not that unreasonable of an expectation. And while I have a personal vested interest in the CCK I'm not overlooking models like Mouse or the overly maligned Shang either.

Of course that's potentially outside the scope of what others or Wyrd itself might be interested in, but it's something I'd like to see happen.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Much more likely to happen, given the size of the time required to do such work if they can sell something to make a profit on it though and people like alternate sculpts of things. So I doubt very highly if they care enough about fixing weak totems to devote time to it unless they can also sell something.

The faction ones are sold separately and there has been errata to models only found in crewboxes and such so it wouldn't be that far out of reach.

[Fetid Strumpet]

We will have to agree to disagree. If your opponents are allowing you to deplete their hands with the CCK then they are just playing a different game than I can possibly comprehend.

 

[Hot4Perdita]

On 12/13/2017 at 11:43 AM, wobbly_goggy said:

I guess so. 

Good points... 

What about 2 or 3 new generic totems per faction?

If the totem changed play style and had the card (no need for new cards/upgrade deck/errata on master card) if that would encourage sales?

I've got an idea: make all totems available to all masters. It sucks I can't take the Enslaved Nephilim when I play Lady Justice. It's the only model in the guild I know of that can move people around so well. I wish he just wasn't restricted to Perdita. As a result, I play Perdita a majority of the time, mostly cause she's darn good, but also because of the mobility the Nephilim provides. As a result,  my other Masters end up getting neglected. 

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I've got an idea: make all totems available to all masters. It sucks I can't take the Enslaved Nephilim when I play Lady Justice. It's the only model in the guild I know of that can move people around so well. I wish he just wasn't restricted to Perdita. As a result, I play Perdita a majority of the time, mostly cause she's darn good, but also because of the mobility the Nephilim provides. As a result,  my other Masters end up getting neglected. 

And I would love to take Hungering darkness with Lilith...

That's a slightly flippant answer, but shows you can't just remove the master restriction and be done with it. I like that masters are different, and take the totem option they have as part of their difference. 

Guild does have other mobility improvers, but they aren't going to be as cheap as the enslaved nephlim. 

 

[Ludvig]

I predict Huggy and Vik would be really popular.

[Sklertic]

New generic totems I fear would make certain master specific ones even less used. Balance the existing ones and maybe add another specific one per master, I could get behind that.

For M3E I would prefer they polish the rules instead of adding anything new. Restricting summoning is a must and writing a book with an index that doesn't suck would be a major step forward as well. It's way to hard to look stuff up in the rules book as it is now.

[Angelshard]

Honestly I would love if they focused on cleaning up wording, elevation and timing instead of releasing new models next year.

A major errata to balance some of the models that are falling behind would be welcome, but its honestly not even close to top priority in my world.

A lot of the models being seen as weak by most can be used effectively if you think a little out of the box. Especially the totems.

[Reservoir Dog]

If there was an M3 these are some ideas that spring to mind:

Terrain height (vantage point) rules made clearer and more intuitive.  There' a balance between real world and gaming world where it is difficult to give an accurate representation so don' know the best way to handle this.

Points go from 50ss to 100ss per game but costs double(ish) for existing models. ie a 4 as model now would become either a 7,8 or 9ss model  as model in M3 (I think this would/could help balance)

Henchmen/enforcers get master specific upgrades (e.g. barbaros has an upgrade he could only take if lilith was master etc). I think this would encourage more themed crews (which I like).

Don' know about the totems idea? Maybe new shared totems? Eg Totem X can only be taken by Zoraida, pandora and dreamer, totem Y can be taken by collodi and lucius, and totem Z can be taken by Lynch, lilith and titania?

New deployment rules where you place models alternatively after the player with the most models evens it up. E.g. I have 10 models and you have 7, I deploy 3 and then we take it in turn placing one at a time with whoever won the flip going 2nd (I think this would make from the shadows a better ability too).

I think that' everything that springs to mind at the moment.  Not overly thought about it and the above ideas could turn out to be terrible ideas but I think people brainstorming might help the development of the game.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

I predict Huggy and Vik would be really popular.

Only one of those is a totem.

I think Marcus with the Brass arachnid giving Howard 3 activation in a turn is a bad first turn. 

[Da Git]

7 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I've got an idea: make all totems available to all masters. It sucks I can't take the Enslaved Nephilim when I play Lady Justice. It's the only model in the guild I know of that can move people around so well. I wish he just wasn't restricted to Perdita. As a result, I play Perdita a majority of the time, mostly cause she's darn good, but also because of the mobility the Nephilim provides. As a result,  my other Masters end up getting neglected. 

I know this would never happen, but I'd love to be able to take the Cherub with Titania...

The Jealousy is real peeps! God the Gorar's a piece of poo!! (IMO)

[WWHSD]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

Only one of those is a totem.

I think Marcus with the Brass arachnid giving Howard 3 activation in a turn is a bad first turn. 

I wouldn't mind being able to take Emberling with Ramos. I'll take 4 scrap markers for 3 soulstones.

[Gnomezilla]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I think Marcus with the Brass arachnid giving Howard 3 activation in a turn is a bad first turn. 

Double activating peacekeeper and second stompybot of choice seems much friendlier.

6 hours ago, Reservoir Dog said:

...Henchmen/enforcers get master specific upgrades (e.g. barbaros has an upgrade he could only take if lilith was master etc). I think this would encourage more themed crews (which I like)....

Since this looks like it might break the ubiquity of Francisco and Francois and so on, it seems like a promising idea. The henchmen and enforcers would all have to have vital parts of their abilities and actions moved onto upgrades and lowered to 1 or 0ss for it to work, though. (How often is Carlos hired outside of Colette?)

[Adran]

Just now, Gnomezilla said:

Triple activating peacekeeper seems much friendlier.

Since this looks like it might break the ubiquity of Francisco and Francois and so on, it seems like a promising idea. The henchmen and enforcers would all have to have vital parts of their abilities and actions moved onto upgrades and lowered to 1 or 0ss for it to work, though. (How often is Carlos hired outside of Colette?)

It may be friendlier, but its much harder to do (since Marcus is the only person I can think of who will let you get an activation out of a model without it being their activation so you can still get reactivate).

I was trying to stick to totems being picked in faction rather than Master specific. 

I like Carlos with Kaeris as well.

I don't think you will see them removing abilities to put them on upgrades in the near future, so it woul;d have to be more them gaining abilities (may be as simple as with Lady justice Fancisco could protect himself since she clearly doesn't need a big brother. But she does like +2 df)

[Treehouse]

I also vote for the SS 50 --> 100. It is a major change allowing for balancing out models and justifies a new edition, but it doesn't change the rules, which are mostly working fine.

 

Then some revision of wordings and models, refreshing them and cleaning up the whole errata/0 upgrade fixes. 

I could also imagine some extra level added to the game, but who knows what that could be? 

 

But I guess for the time being, we will see a couple of alternative models first. Book 6 could be made up of story encounters with a few models thrown in (or not even); maybe some solo-missions. that would actually be very cool. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

It would have to change the rules since 100 SS, even doubling costs of models would still most likely be leaving larger leftovers at the end so that a direct corralation between unspent SS to cache wouldn't work.