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Mrbedlam

What master do you bring into your Ashes and Dust crew?

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Sarcasm. Sort of. However, there's some new Outcasts players around so its always good to have a discussion about Ashes. 

He's 13SS with a heavy hitting track good ml, the possibility of making little abom babies. Breaks into 2 for activation control that hand out fast and remove scrap/corpse. Can't be charge. Immune to conditions and drops no markers himself. 

2 seperate questions;  

Does Ashes and Dust need a visit from the cuddle hammer?

What crews does he show up for you the most in and if you don't take him with certain crews, why not?

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You forgot "is basically unkillable"

 

disclaimer:  Yes, I know he *can* be killed, but it's a hilarious amount of work that if your opponent thinks you can do, they'll just leave Dust Storm out as a "scheme runner"

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I think for cuddles, either remove the no charge clause OR remove condition immunities.  I would also say maybe modify his resummon that it can't happen the same turn he is broken?  That one I'm less sure on.

As for crews, I've had decent success with Von Schill crews, using him as a hyper aggressive flank beater, while the rest of my crew runs the center or other flank.  The main problem is VS gets out activated and has only expensive models to buy, so even though A&D is a great model, only having 6-7 models really doesn't do much.

 

In my Levi crews, he's an almost auto-take staple.  Paired with Levi's ability to sacrifice undead/constructs for either placement effect or cards, you can either run him up and split him by jumping, placing Levi in an aggressive spot, or split him for cards, gain 2 extra activations, and then just reform him at the end of the round.  I like tossing Scramble on him to let him charge through severe terrain, effectively giving him a 15-16in threat  range turn one (don't remember the exact number off the top of my head).  He can summon on a kill with a trigger, which is a nice little boost, since Levi can then sac the aboms for cards or jumping and the aboms generate card draw themselves.  

Also, if you need, you sac him and split the Core and Storm far apart, using the Storm as a sudden schemer or, better yet, surprising counter schemer who murders everything that moves on the opposite flank - normally I use this to counter Leave Your Mark or Covert Breakthrough or assist with my own completion of those schemes

  

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I take him with hamelin and levi.

He's 2 much of an activation controle drain to me with the other masters. Its a great model but... just too expensive to fit into the usually very synergistic and keywordheavy outcast-crews.

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Answering your first question: definitely not. When I encountered Outcast crew for the first time - it was Iron Levi crew - shortly after I started playing Malifaux I was absolutely disgusted with the power level of A&D - it was a first model that seemed unbalanced to me then. But after several games I learned how to deal with it (well, more or less) and that sometimes the best solution is to simply ignore it or distract it in some way. I am not the first to say that (see above) and certainly I won't be the last, but A&D's main strength lays not in itself, but in Outcast Masters that have an access to free activations, that is Hamelin (summons) and Levi (waifs).

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I don't have a huge problem with Ashes and dust. I know at once if I have a crew that can kill it for good (ignoring the cores armour is normally the tricky part), and if I do it is attacked when I want it to. If I can't then I eitehr ignore it, or trick my opponent into placing it in a spot where I can deny the reformation. (Surprisingly easy against most people. they don;'t think about disengaging with dust storm for its second walk for example, or have it at maximum range, so you can stand in the place it needs to be to reform). 

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I think Ashes and Dust is difficult to nerf properly. With Masters that have a way to sacrifice it for some benefit (Leveticus and Hamelin) it probably is a BIT too good, but with all the other masters I think that it's strengths are balanced by it's cost. For example, with Jack Daw or Parker Ashes and Dust is really good, but not at all broken or too much (especially with the decreased importance of the condition immunity with GG2018). It would be a shame to nerf the model so that it isn't too strong with Leveticus and Hamelin, and at the same time making it unplayable with other masters. Every faction needs a top-end expensive model, and it needs to be playable with all masters as well (Howard, Nekima, Archie, Yasanori etc.) - it would be a shame if an aggressive or heavy handed nerf took Ashes and Dust out of that list. I think one good way to deal with this would be to add some kind of clause that changes the reformation behaviour depending on whether it was killed or sacrificed?

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1 hour ago, apes-ma said:

I think one good way to deal with this would be to add some kind of clause that changes the reformation behaviour depending on whether it was killed or sacrificed?

If any action was at all needed which i'm not sure it is. This would be a great solution.

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I love taking Ashes and Dust in a good ol' classic Leveticus list: Leveticus, Rusty Alyce, 4 x Aboms, Ashes and Dust, upgrades to flavor. 

Aside from that, I find A&D is fantastic in Guard the Stash strat.

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35 minutes ago, MunkyMuddFace said:

I love taking Ashes and Dust in a good ol' classic Leveticus list: Leveticus, Rusty Alyce, 4 x Aboms, Ashes and Dust, upgrades to flavor. 

Aside from that, I find A&D is fantastic in Guard the Stash strat.

What are about Guard the Stash do you find A&D good for?  Like, is there something in addition to it being an amazing all around model?  

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3 minutes ago, Davos said:

What are about Guard the Stash do you find A&D good for?  Like, is there something in addition to it being an amazing all around model?  

A&D just holds one of the objectives well. If he is whole, he holds it. If the opponent breaks him, he is still holding it, if you place the core properly. And you can place the core in such a way that it is holding objective and is still in range of Dust Storm to get to it and reform (terrain dependant). Of course, A&D can't score for the whole strategy, but he locks down one side very well.

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ok thats what I figured.  Just wasn't sure if you had some secret tech/play with him for the strat.  Honestly, I find him viable in any strat/scheme pool that doesn't contain A Quick Murder.

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