New Rankings Algorithm?

[NoMoreMrNiceKai]

Hi all,

First of all, I have put this here, because although it’s old-home of the UK Events was fine at the time, any changes effect Poland, Netherlands, USA, Denmark & Spain, with Italy & Australia hopefully coming online soon.

It has been discussed about changing the way the events are ranked. If we are to do this, it needs to be before January this year, when the UK Masters Season starts. This discussion comes from the appearance that the number of tournaments we run has grown massively. Here are the stats on UK Ranked Events:

2014: 47 Events (23% were 100 point tournaments)
2015: 64 Events (25% were 100 point tournaments)
2016: 75 Events (22% were 100 point tournaments)
2017: 64 Events (30% were 100 point tournaments)

As you can see, the number of ranked events have gone down in 2017 and although the 28-person tournaments have gone up percentage wise, that is only 3 extra tournaments this year due to lower numbers.

Another reason for people wanting change is the “inevitable” situation where there is more than one person with 400 points. This hasn’t happened either. Even if you consider the 5 other ranking sites.

Based on the above, I personally don’t think that the 28-person limit needs to change.

I did like a suggestion that was made on a podcast though. That talking about the issue that the winner, whether in a 28 man 3 round 1 day event, or in a 128 man 7 round 2 day nationals event, they get 100 points. I’d like to see this change.

A suggestion was that the point limit changes per number of rounds. I have looked and here are the stats for the UK events of 2017 (Thanks to the fact that 79.6% of tournaments used BoT 😊 ).

3 Round Events: 31
4 Round Events: 14
5 Round Events: 4
6 Round Events: 1
7 Round Events: 1

So obviously the Nationals at 7, Scottish GT at 6, English and Welsh GT at 5 leaves 14x 4 round events and 2x 5 round events over and above the three round events. (I don’t know if it helps you, but I feel better about making the proposal with these stats).

So my proposal (and this is completely open for discussion obviously):

3 Round events are based on 100 points for a 28 player tournament winner (as per current calculation).
4 Round events are based on 110 points for a 28 player tournament winner.
5 Round events are based on 120 points for a 28 player tournament winner.
6 Round events are based on 130 points for a 28 player tournament winner.
7 Round events are based on 140 points for a 28 player tournament winner.

I’d also like to propose the idea (If Luke and Stuart agreed to extend the rounds), that the GTs are the only ones that can be ranked for 6 rounds and Nationals 7, to add a bit of prestige to them – not that more is needed. Any other 6 round tournaments (which there wasn’t last year) would get ranked a 5-round tournament.

Thank you to all that use the rankings. Jamie and I cannot wait to show you new exciting features in 2018.

[ScottishMetaLew]

Without sounding like a total fanboy for Bag of tools and the work yous are doing, id like to say that these changes look extremely reasonable, especially with the numbers to back it up.

I assume the algorithm will adjust the points each participants gets automatically? Will bottom place in bigger events still get auto 5 points? 

[Euclid (#ScottishMeta)]

I much prefer this suggestion compared to increasing the player requirement for 100 points scoring.

 

Would this suggestion remove the "two day" bonus currently in place? If not are there plans to modify this so that last place gets 5 points and the remainder are properly scaled?

Have you considered capping the points for second place and lower? One of the potential issues is very large 3 round events with multiple people scoring very highly. (I may just be rambling now)

 

Overall I like this idea!

[NoMoreMrNiceKai]

2 minutes ago, Oligan06 said:

I assume the algorithm will adjust the points each participants gets automatically? Will bottom place in bigger events still get auto 5 points? 

Yes, 5 points for turning up - it always worked of the base of 100, that would be what changed.

[Oshova]

Definitely an interesting idea. Would this mean the end of the bonus for 2-day events? It does cause quite a big swing for those events, and any 5+ round event is going to be a 2 day event anyway. Unless you're crazy... I'm looking at people attending Adepticon this year...

[mythicFOX]

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Topic pinned. 

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[Snezzley]

Happy to make GT a 6 round event buddy

[shakes1066]

I’m happy to make the Welsh GT a six round event to fit this format. 

In regards to the idea I think it’s interesting and well worth trying. It’s not like we can’t go back if it doesn’t achieve what everyone hopes it will.

Luke Welsh Overlord

[Clousseau]

Overall seems like a good idea, however, I would not add a 'bonus' for a 4 round event. Reason being it could put pressure on TOs to make more events 4 rounds. Personally I think that the 3-4 round mix is about right, but many people don't like 4 round events, and also its just not possible at some venues. I do run both 3 & 4 round events, so I'm quite comfortable, but it may affect others. Also, if my local events were always 4 rounds, and I won all 4 my 440 points would be unbeatable, without travelling - OK, not likely but hopefully it shows one extreme position (and I do like to consider the extremes).

Would be interesting to see how a higher top score compares to the 2 day 'bonus' across a range of positions, as the 'bonus' does skew the results.

6 rounds for a 2 day event seems feasible, though sticking to 5 makes sense for some events (like Lightning Bugs which runs at a show).

[Psientologist]

3 hours ago, Clousseau said:

Also, if my local events were always 4 rounds, and I won all 4 my 440 points would be unbeatable, without travelling - OK, not likely but hopefully it shows one extreme position (and I do like to consider the extremes).

Well those events would have to be 28+ and currently that is no different to now.
In fact it's "easier" as in 2017 you could win 4 28 player 3 round events and be at the top.

I would ask @NoMoreMrNiceKai if possible to post a, top X(25?) oh 2017 under this ruling to see how much changes. As I imagine we all would like to see it not effect things greatly but somewhat change it.

[Psientologist]

I realise I never posted my thoughts.

I like this system, giving the prestige of the GTs and Nationals a more obvious showing in the rankings makes sense.
In the past some people have said GT winners should qualify for Masters and where as I don't think they should grant a "golden ticket" this definitely aids there chances.

As others have asked, I'd be interested in whether we believe the 2 day bonus % is needed anymore. I liked it for encouragement but I'm not sure it's needed anymore for that side of things, I think it's been proven that players will do them and some (great) TO's will run them. Under the bonus system Kai is suggesting it won't be needed as maybe not +40% but the start at a higher number trickling down in itself will be a bonus.

[Rosskov]

The changes look sound. 

It is nice to see that the community value the hard work you and Jamie put in 

[bertmac]

How do i raise a query about two of me showing in the uk rankings?

Main profile is Jon McCarthy

Got entered into ukn as John McCarthy

[Tapdancer]

Like the suggestion.  Think it will really light a fire under the two day scene.  If my basic maths is right the 2 day bonus should be redundant given the lift it will give to everybody with higher start point.

 

can only see this as a positive change.

[Clousseau]

On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:53 AM, bertmac said:

How do i raise a query about two of me showing in the uk rankings?

Main profile is Jon McCarthy

Got entered into ukn as John McCarthy

Email Kai & Jamie at contact@malifaux-rankings.com  

[Clousseau]

@NoMoreMrNiceKai It' nearly 2018 with first events in UK on 13th so a decision is required!!!!!!

[NoMoreMrNiceKai]

Most are in agreement that we should try this.

I think while the 4 round argument is valid - it is the same as the 28 player rule we have had for years - some venues can't support that. If we get half way through the year and it hasn't worked out - we can re-run it - maybe even try different simulations. But I think this will work.

[ArD]

On 6/8/2018 at 2:50 PM, ArD said:

Dear All,

I d like to thank Malifaux Rankings for the possibility to use Malifaux ranking system for Russian community. Most of community is very pleased to have such instrument like MR to observe the life of meta.

Five month have passed from the beginning of Malifaux Rankings Russia and more than 50events were ranked. 

 

However the community have some questions:

 

1. We have the event named "AprilFaux's Days, Ekaterinburg, 50 ss" which have been duplicated and cannot be deleted (possibly the problem is the (') simbol in the name of event). This event has severe influance on statistics and shall be deleted. May be someone knows how to deal with it?

 

2. This summer and autumn we are going to have several major events in Russia(kind of local GT's and National). Is it possible to attach badges to the winners of theese events as it was done in UK Rankings? What shouls I do?

 

 

With best regards.)