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Schemes & Stones Pre-Jan 2018 Errata (Outcasts)


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I think there were a bunch of great suggestions here. Starting with the Friekorps models (I love the Friekorps).

Making Von Schill cache 4, giving him a built in :ram on his knife, and making friekorpsmann 4SS would, all together, be fantastic. I think that way a player is encouraged to play a friekorps theme, which VS supports with his aura, without being hamstrung on model count. Excellent suggestions! A cheaper, Wk5 specialist would also be superb, but I think that AND the suggested trigger to spread burning might be a bit much? Perhaps the trigger, and the walk, and keep the cost would all add up to be pretty great. The suggestions for the librarian are nice too, but I think aside from a 2" :melee range not much needs to change there!

As for Parker, having no upgrade limit is obviously a benefit, but I am not it would go that far to fixing him. Dropping the target number for his push, and letting changing plans cascade into other (0) actions is exactly the right way to fix Parker I think, whilst maintaining his playstyle. With no upgrade limit I can see that leading to a game spent building up upgrades, rather than choosing the right one for the right situation, and then him blasting something off the board, or buying a lot of upgrades at the start so that Parker can take one massive shot at the start of the game with, for example, min damage 7 or something like that. I don't know if that would be that good for anyone... Making the gunslinger a bandit would also be great, and especially increasing it to a 21" :ranged range. It would not only give Parker more mid-cost bandit options (which I think he needs), but also make the convict gunslinger hireable in it's own right. At the moment I can almost never see a reason not to just pay 1SS more to hire Sue instead of a convict gunslinger - he is a stat point less accurate, but in return you get card draw, great auras, better damage and some other random utility - he's basically the same but better in every way.

As with the friekorpsmann, reducing the cost of the guilty is a good plan for sure. They DEFINITELY feel like a tax, to the point where I don't even bother with tormented Jack lists anymore - and that's problematic since then Jack Daw becomes another one of those masters that, more or less, heads up the same crew of generic outcast good stuff. I would also go a bit further and make them do SOMETHING other than just woo-woo around the battlefield being spooky and doing almost nothing after they have tormented something - even at 4SS they would still be extremely bland. Allowing them to torment a friendly model, but also be able to have one enemy tormented at the same time? Or perhaps give them a front-of-card ability to torment a friendly model when deployed so that they can also use their Share Guilt ability on enemy models? I think there is some fun play in Jack with using tormented as an offensive condition to increase his control game, but it rarely gets used since, outside of his curses, it's functionally impossible to torment an enemy model (and Jack is normally killing what he curses). In keeping with that theme, I think the horror duel trigger on Montressor would be flavourful, and powerful in making him the tarpit he is meant to be. The big problem with Jack at the moment is the increasing number of natural :+fate flips that are spreading through all factions - his main defensive ability is randomly hosed all the time, and the old adage of "don't take Jack into Ten Thunders" is starting to apply to a lot more factions...

I haven't played Hamelin, and I have also never hired Taelor - but perhaps with the suggested change I might do? The same applies to Ama No Zako, but even with some errata I don't think I'd buy her - I just don't like the model... I feel like in addition to the mentioned models Bishop could do with a bit of love - despite his flexibility and potential :melee power, he just dies WAY to easily for the SS investment. I think a simple fix of giving him a 2" :melee range might help, or perhaps hard to kill or something like that.

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24 minutes ago, KID55 said:

It needs. Frequently she's in engagement (in my meta many aggressive players) and can't use furious casting because 1" range.

Oh yeah, I mean APART from that. It would be nice, of course, if she had an extra wound or two, could furious cast the healing, or had a (0) action to teleport, but I think the 2" :melee range is enough to make her a totally good 7SS model (which she already is to be honest, it just totally sucks when she gets engaged by a 2" :melee model).

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i play Jack and the problem with him is he has this strange thing that he tries to be a control and a offensive master at once. being able to make models tormented other way then the upgrades. I agree that the torment on the guilty should be a (0) action cause Ive never used it on a enemy model i use that first turn to give Johan the title and thats it. deceasing the cost on them could be nice also. 

I love the desperate Merc models but they are just so useless i dont see myself fielding them cause there are so much better models to pick from. 

 The Ronins could use a point drop to 5 and they would be perfect. 

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Jack Daw and Tormented models simply need to be rewritten: Jack's old upgrades are too expensive, his new upgrades are not going to help him much, limitation on how many cursed ups you can take is simply bad idea, his survivability is close to "i'm dead before turn 3", Montresor is still not perfect (someone suggested once that Comfort in Fear should be a (0) - I like the idea, a (0) with Ca 6 and TN around 11), The Guilty are bad bad bad, Ligeia needs Accomplice or being less expensive...

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On 11/17/2017 at 11:04 AM, MetaphoricDragn said:

I was highly amused by the desperate merc suggested fix to give him an upgrade that lets him gain a keyword.  I dunno if that would make him useful, but it did make me laugh. "You want me to pretend I'm from the void? sure I can do that"

That fix was my favorite of the whole show.

Such a "useless" model that would be amazing in so many situations... but still be useless.

the highlights for me, fluff wise, would be prentending to be a Beast, Hound, and Pig (making then a furry), Last Blossom (Naruto running), or Undead (that scene from Shaun of the Dead).

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On 2017. 11. 17. at 6:17 PM, apes-ma said:

 

I haven't played Hamelin, and I have also never hired Taelor - but perhaps with the suggested change I might do? The same applies to Ama No Zako, but even with some errata I don't think I'd buy her - I just don't like the model... I feel like in addition to the mentioned models Bishop could do with a bit of love - despite his flexibility and potential :melee power, he just dies WAY to easily for the SS investment. I think a simple fix of giving him a 2" :melee range might help, or perhaps hard to kill or something like that.

Am I missing anything? did the podcast mention anything about Hamelin? what did they say it about? 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2017-11-17 at 5:04 PM, MetaphoricDragn said:

I was highly amused by the desperate merc suggested fix to give him an upgrade that lets him gain a keyword.  I dunno if that would make him useful, but it did make me laugh. "You want me to pretend I'm from the void? sure I can do that"

While I love the implications, this would be kinda problematic with the Sister keyword. Since that would allow spamming them together with the Vics and Vanessa for +2 dmg and healing everywhere... :P

 

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As hilarious 4 shots of range 8, Sh 4, positive flip to hit, minimum 3 damage would be, it's a lot of set up for something that can be offhandedly killed..... but at that point you are playing Gremlins.  Both vik's, Vanessa, the student of Conflict and associated upgrades leave you with 8 Desperate Mercenaries, totaling 12 model crew, 65 total wounds.  With only the initial 4 with Fates Intertwined to spread healing, that's still a pretty out there scheme machine.

Still, unlikely to really work.

 

Quote

honestly, the most urgent errata I can think of is to remove Mercenary characteristic from Trapper. this "Trapper and three Changelings in every list" madness needs to end.

I was unaware that was a thing... but now I'll add it to my pile of Lucius concepts, thanks.

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1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

As hilarious 4 shots of range 8, Sh 4, positive flip to hit, minimum 3 damage would be, it's a lot of set up for something that can be offhandedly killed..... but at that point you are playing Gremlins.  Both vik's, Vanessa, the student of Conflict and associated upgrades leave you with 8 Desperate Mercenaries, totaling 12 model crew, 65 total wounds.  With only the initial 4 with Fates Intertwined to spread healing, that's still a pretty out there scheme machine.

Still, unlikely to really work.

 

I was unaware that was a thing... but now I'll add it to my pile of Lucius concepts, thanks.

Sisters in Fury only works on Ml atks

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After listening to several podcasts talking about the issues with the soaring dragon upgrade I am just really worried they will break scion.... one of our few interesting models.

On top of that the soaring dragon fear is completely unjustified in my opinion... every time they talk about it there clearly isn't a vik player in the group on any podcast.... almost all the things they seem to worry about don't work because of ability interactions, or timings or other issues.... but the perceived fear factor is there.

 

So fine, if Wyrd wants to calm people change the upgrade.... it's pretty rubbish anyway as far as I am concerned.... but if they think a better solution is to errata the scion I'm fucking taking a break from this game...

 

Am I the only one who is worried about this happening?

 

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I'm not even using it,  Slingshot/Alpha Strike is not my play style.   

I'm all about Sisterly Bonds.... with that on Ashes, Into The Fray on Blood, Vanessa's Laystone Unleased, there's enough healing to go around that I'm not worried about getting hit that I need to be buried.  

Although I took it once against Guild and had the perfect counter to Death Marshals, so that might be a little overpowering.

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1 hour ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

They should wait and see that nobody wins tournaments with soaring dragon... I'm Viks player and I don't even consider it anymore. We have way better ways of doing bury tricks and alphas.

I hope they do...

 

If not... I don't care what they do to the upgrade... but don't fuck with the scion please.... I went into outcasts because of the Viks aesthetic... now I've branched out and I'm attached to this faction and my models... but I struggle to find good interesting/different ways to play my stuff. I feel like I'm pigeon holed into the few choices available to outcasts when others have much more varied interesting options. Don't take the scion away please... she is cool...

 

Edit: also gg2018... who would want to bury their models at the end of their activation for half of the strats anyway???

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