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Round Three Voting - Information

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I knew I was taking a risk this round submitting a single model instead of a diorama. Having no knowledge of the show Stranger Things apart from the title also didn’t help. Ultimately for me, my opponent captured more of a theme and put in a lot of work on their story they told with a diorama and it shows. 

Competing in round 3 is further than I’ve made it in previous years so I’m still happy with my performance. Congratulations to my opponent. That’s going to be a tough vote deficit to make up before voting cutoff. 

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53 minutes ago, Tinman said:

I knew I was taking a risk this round submitting a single model instead of a diorama. Having no knowledge of the show Stranger Things apart from the title also didn’t help. Ultimately for me, my opponent captured more of a theme and put in a lot of work on their story they told with a diorama and it shows. 

Competing in round 3 is further than I’ve made it in previous years so I’m still happy with my performance. Congratulations to my opponent. That’s going to be a tough vote deficit to make up before voting cutoff. 

I was largely in the same boat.

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19 hours ago, DLenok said:

I agree about there being a bit of a discrepancy in scoring between dioramas and single models, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a fixable thing (and I'm saying that as someone who has purposely limited himself to painting only game-usable single pieces). Two categories is a good idea in theory, but in practice it would just either needlessly bifurcate a contest that's already niche in terms of it's popularity or, if entries in multiple categories were allowed, would amp up the time pressure on the top performers who are competing for actual prizes beyond the self-improvement and odd raffle ticket that the rest of us are going to end up with.

As for the reshuffling and matchups issue, folks just kind of have to go with the flow for the most part. This seems like mostly a bronze tier (where I also dwell) problem, where the divergence in skill is biggest from top to bottom and you can get some pretty feelsbadman voting results if you get paired against someone much better than you, but that sword cuts both ways. For instance in round 2 I got repaired against @Domperignome, with whom I thought I was very evenly matched, and although I was able to come away with a win, he (she?) by no means deserved to be eliminated. From a quick glance I'd say that Dom's piece was better than about 75 percent of the bronze field that round. Another really good example of this is matchup 38 from that same round. @FinalForm got totally slammed in that vote because he (she?) had the bad luck to get matched against someone better that day, but there's no way the piece he did wasn't among the best of the round.

In the same vein, there have been a few matchups (that I won't give examples of) where I didn't want to vote for either entry because I though it was wrong that one of those luckily paired subpar entries got to advance while the FinalForms and Domperignomes didn't. It's just luck of the draw mostly and you can't do much about it.

If anything, I think I'd like to see some form of "bad luck" category where we can write in say two names for folks who we didn't vote for in that round because of how the matchups shook out, but we still think should advance based on the quality of their work relative to the field.

I have a suspicion that an ELO-like rating system for pairing would make a significant difference in pairing people at similar skill levels and would likely reduce the complete blowouts that we have seen in the bronze tier.

 

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15 minutes ago, neoezekiel said:

I have a suspicion that an ELO-like rating system for pairing would make a significant difference in pairing people at similar skill levels and would likely reduce the complete blowouts that we have seen in the bronze tier.

 

That would work. Originally I thought that everyone was going to be given a score rather than a who painted it better vote. I think that would resolve some of the frustration because if you have two people who painted equally well (looking at Helldrad vs Herald in round 2 for example) who really put effort in their scenes should get to move on over someone who submitted an "easy way out" piece because they found out their opponent dropped. It can still be a ladder tier system but if some gets less than 12 points then they are auto ELIM. The judges should still review the models if both score equally high or low but then it is based on skill and theme.  And the ladder can then just be adjusted accordingly. Just my two cents if it is worth anything. :P

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In my opinion when already elliminated silver participant return back to silver due to dnf is a little unfair. There are plenty awesome painters in bronze who haven't been eliminated and I think it is  better to promote them than already eliminated silver. Because eliminated in bronze have no chance to go back.

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17 hours ago, Phosphexborn said:

In my opinion when already elliminated silver participant return back to silver due to dnf is a little unfair.

They where chosen at random, luck of the draw that one went back to silver.

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4 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

In the end, it is where you want to put your eggs and there is no wrong answer. 

In an egg cup in my case!

Thanks for writing up the feedback - looking forward to reading it :-)

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10 hours ago, Stonewall78 said:

They where chosen at random, luck of the draw that one went back to silver.

There were three eliminated silvers and they all back to silver due to dnf. Mr Lucky, warrior4520 and Hero of the Rev

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On 11/15/2017 at 2:26 PM, Zanna said:

I feel like if someone can be bumped up from bronze to silver (like Mr Lucky, what a fitting name!), then someone in the eliminated category should potentially be shuffled back into the bronze repairing.

I think this is harder to decide who is "top Eliminated" because there are no judges score numbers.  Do you Pull who was the closest in Votes?  like if you were 49% and opponent 51% you go up.  Sounds good.  But since Pairings are random some one may have had a better piece, but was against a Much better opponent could have won a lower % of votes. Given there is enough complaint of "reshuffle" (although agree - if you are both still in you should not be Split)  Whats the answer then. If enough DNF that would mean if they offered 5 prizes for silver, only 4 or 3 would be awarded.

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I'll weigh in on the Single Mini vs Diorama in case things change in the Future.   It is hard to compare the two.    Diorama benefit : Flashy, perceived more effort, and easier to elaborate on a theme.  weakness:  Time consuming; more likely to expose a technical error. (same as multiple photos vs Single.  "loved it till I saw the back view mold lines/paint strokes/brush hairs"  vs didn't show the back - could be naked for all you know)    Single Figure: Benefit: perceived to be less time consuming Cheaper usually. Focus on painting not Crafting. Weakness: Focus of attention on Single element, Can be harder to address theme with out full story.

If it ever was divided there would need to be a base size limit on Single Figs.  A 28 mm figure on a 30 ml base is not the same as a 120 mm "base" compensating fro room to tell a theme. As plenty of diorama's are single figs.  And then Where do the Bust Painters go.  Cause they are neat and pretty and I would miss them. :( 

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@easily_mused  Personally, I like making dioramas for the ability to tell a story and to get more of my collection painted. I never permanently fix a model to the scene, I make the model removable or glue it to a base later. It's more important to be able to play with them:lol:

In voting, I don't expect to win just because I've made a scene. I've given my vote to plenty of single models over dioramas if it had a good paint job and fit the theme. Take the single wizard painted by @Maulwurfmann for example. That one was a very small model with extraordinary attention to detail; I think they may have been severely overlooked this round.

 

 

 

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Maulwurfmann is for sure the superior painter compared to my humble skills. I believe though that his lower poll numbers may be more in relation to his entry not fitting the theme too well. Was expecting to lose myself. Happy for me that "theme" and "skill" are equally weighted. On just technical skill - I lose.

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@DarthSlider - Congrats! Your model was epic!

 

If anyone has constructive C&C on my model - again would be much appreciated.

Im very chuffed to have entered this year and will see it through until the end. For someone who rarely paints... it has inspired me to pick up a paintbrush again and give it a crack!

 

JP

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4 hours ago, Jpowah said:

If anyone has constructive C&C on my model - again would be much appreciated.

Im very chuffed to have entered this year and will see it through until the end. For someone who rarely paints... it has inspired me to pick up a paintbrush again and give it a crack!

 

JP

send me a PM with an image of your entry and I'll be glad to do so, same for everyone :)

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2 hours ago, shanerozzell said:

send me a PM with an image of your entry and I'll be glad to do so, same for everyone :)

Thank you! Will do that shortly. 

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one other critisim I have of this years contest, the bronze being open judging head to head, where people just vote for their favorite, it leads people to just quickly glance at a pic and the piece that would score higher in the "asthetic" category is normally the winner even if the losing piece is stronger in theme or technique. 

If we still do public voting for bronze but just have people submit their scores like we did in the sorting round it will also give participants more information on what they can improve for future. 

just a thought.... I unfortunately have WAY too much to do to get ready for christmas so I will be bowing out after this loss. well done @Kilvo your diorama was really well done.

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11 minutes ago, Zatch said:

one other critisim I have of this years contest, the bronze being open judging head to head, where people just vote for their favorite, it leads people to just quickly glance at a pic and the piece that would score higher in the "asthetic" category is normally the winner even if the losing piece is stronger in theme or technique. 

If we still do public voting for bronze but just have people submit their scores like we did in the sorting round it will also give participants more information on what they can improve for future. 

just a thought.... I unfortunately have WAY too much to do to get ready for christmas so I will be bowing out after this loss. well done @Kilvo your diorama was really well done.

Cheers @Zatch I really liked yours too, to be honest I thought you got the theme closer than I did for what its worth :-) I think your correct on the voting system, it would be an improvement if the models were scored in a similar way to round one.  :-) 

 

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3 hours ago, shanerozzell said:

send me a PM with an image of your entry and I'll be glad to do so, same for everyone :)

I'll gladly take you up on that offer - thank you!

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5 hours ago, shanerozzell said:

send me a PM with an image of your entry and I'll be glad to do so, same for everyone :)

thanks for the opportunity :)
PM incoming 

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