Jinn Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 So, I've been thinking about the synergy that Anna Lovelace brings to Sandeep crews. She has a great Ca that ignores engagements and does 3/3/4 damage that becomes truly amazing if you can give her to get around cover, which Sandeep has two ways of doing now ( to attacks within 3 gamin and the tutelage upgrade) and is also a great attack for Sandeep to copy. She has Rush of Magic which is great for a summoner, and stacked on top of Arcane Reservoir which you probably have on Sandeep means that your cards should be quite good. The big synergy I think she offers though, is the ability to get around Sandeep's summon restriction of 3 upgrades on Gamin at a time. The trigger on her Ml attack buries the target (glimpse the void, so the usual TN13 Wp duel and only if nothing else is buried) which, conveniently, leaves them out of play. As the wording on Sandeep's summoning upgrade only mentions models in play this means that you can summon another gamin with the same upgrade as the buried model. I propose summoning the Banasuva using Student of All (using Kandara for the Jealous fire lord ability). You would then activate the Banasuva, copy Armour +1 from a Gamin (or more explosive demises if you think it likely he'll unbury and die this turn), throw a Ht1 model 10" up the board and then have Anna hit Banasuva with the trigger to bury. Then Sandeep is free to summon whatever models he wants, hopefully having drawn at least one 12+ and three 8+ cards with Arcane Res. and Rush of Magic (no guarantee, but this is just an ideal situation). Next turn if you manage to get a kill on a model in their crew (which Sandeep should be able to do if he invests resources) a Banasuva will pop out right where you want him, hopefully with a 3" engage and a nice Flaming Demise if he should die. Now, because of the wording on Sandeep's summoning, you can effectively summon a second model for each Gamin upgrade as long as the original is buried when you do it, as it says that you attach an upgrade that isn't on a model in play. Another obscene thing you can do with this is bury the gamin with the flip aura, summon another one, and then kill something (mobile toolkit? with Joss for scrap + Steamfitter synergy...) and have effectively a to attacks bubble. Preemptively, I'll just leave this FAQ here in case someone brings up the Rare 1 limit:38) Some Actions/Abilities allow models to attach Upgrades during the game. Do these Actions/Abilities need to adhere to the restrictions listed on the Upgrade, or can they be attached to any model? Upgrade restrictions only affect the hiring process, and have no in game effect, so these Upgrades may be attached to any model. If there are any restrictions they will be noted in the Action or Ability’s description. It is worth noting some such Actions and Abilities bother noting “ignoring restrictions” but this is simply reminder text which was put on when there was space available. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 That feels... dirty, even to me. I look forward to a FAQ or Errata that stops you from using bury to drop more than one copy of his Gamin Upgrades. Until then, sounds very effective. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 In other words: Sandeep's summoning upgrade needs errata. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fictor Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Cmon, not all 'combos' need errata, this need determinated miniatures and so many actions and cards, and IMO doesn't are OP... Yes, it's fine but not so OP to be nerfed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ludvig said: In other words: Sandeep's summoning upgrade needs errata. Oh, come on. It can be FAQ'd just fine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrow Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 This feels dirty... and I love it . Needs quite a bit of setup for it to work but for the first turn or two, it'd be worth it to get additional summoned models and upgrades on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, Fictor said: Cmon, not all 'combos' need errata, this need determinated miniatures and so many actions and cards, and IMO doesn't are OP... Yes, it's fine but not so OP to be nerfed. You can already get around the summoning limit using Kandara to remove the upgrades. The only upgrade I'd be concerned with having two of in play is the one that grants + flips but that that's not even that bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Are you referring to the rare 1 on Banasuva? becasue that does still apply. I don't have the upgrades to hand but I don't think the upgrades themselves are rare 1, you just have to choose one which isn't attached to a model in play. EDIT -Apparently I don't think. they are Rare 1 I can't see the rules saying this is wrong, and since they have just produced a model that already allows you to summon more Gamin than just 3,(Kandara) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrow Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 As someone who prefers to use the Visions upgrades over the Commands, I would love to have multiple aura's of pseudo-chatty on the board. Especially in an interact heavy game. 2 minutes ago, Adran said: I don't have the upgrades to hand but I don't think the upgrades themselves are rare 1, you just have to choose one which isn't attached to a model in play. The upgrades are Rare 1. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Wasn't aware of Kandara. They're really pushing the boudaries on Sandeep then. @solkan True, there are already errata-like answers as well as errata in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Adran said: Are you referring to the rare 1 on Banasuva? becasue that does still apply. I don't have the upgrades to hand but I don't think the upgrades themselves are rare 1, you just have to choose one which isn't attached to a model in play. I can't see the rules saying this is wrong, and since they have just produced a model that already allows you to summon more Gamin than just 3,(Kandara) The gamin upgrades are all "Gamin, Rare 1". Tera Cota Warrior and the Glowy Saber are probably a bigger issue than this is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, KingCrow said: As someone who prefers to use the Visions upgrades over the Commands, I would love to have multiple aura's of pseudo-chatty on the board. Especially in an interact heavy game. There's enough models, logistics, and suits needed to make this work that i don't think it's really broken at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, WWHSD said: Tera Cota Warrior and the Glowy Saber are probably a bigger issue than this is. I would be surprised if they didn't come up with something to correct that interaction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 The unbury is not optional. If your opponent kills one of his own peons in this deployment zone your Banasuva with Commands of Earth is stuck in a useless spot until you get Sandeep within 12 inches of him. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, Fictor said: Cmon, not all 'combos' need errata, this need determinated miniatures and so many actions and cards, and IMO doesn't are OP... Yes, it's fine but not so OP to be nerfed. They have corrected unintended interactions without them being too strong before. This could hardly be considered a nerf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, WWHSD said: The unbury is not optional. If your opponent kills one of his own peons in this deployment zone your Banasuva with Commands of Earth is stuck in a useless spot until you get Sandeep within 12 inches of him. Why is there no love button on this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrow Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Doesn't Kandara requires two turns to get a new upgrade on the field? I think she requires the use of her 2 0 AP actions to get a Sandeep upgrade off the field. With the Anna-bury combo, it can be done in the same turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, KingCrow said: Doesn't Kandara requires two turns to get a new upgrade on the field? I think she requires the use of her 2 0 AP actions to get a Sandeep upgrade off the field. With the Anna-bury combo, it can be done in the same turn. She does. It's simpler, there are no flips involved but it does take 2 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 I don't have the issue with adding more summons than his limit of 3 via Kandara or bury, I just don't like the two versions of the same Gamin summon Upgrade out there. But I will also add, things that break Rare limits are a pet peeve of mine and I acknowledge that is probably my biggest reason behind not liking this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said: I don't have the issue with adding more summons than his limit of 3 via Kandara or bury, I just don't like the two versions of the same Gamin summon Upgrade out there. But I will also add, things that break Rare limits are a pet peeve of mine and I acknowledge that is probably my biggest reason behind not liking this. I think this is the only case of the rare limit being broken in the game. Again, the only other ways I can think of to add upgrades all don't let you break the rare limit. (unless I'm misremembering text again) You certainly can't summon beyond the rare limit, even if some of the models are buried. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 I agree with both of your statements. But if you read Shill's Oath of the Freikorps it looks like steps were taken to not allow the Rare limit to be broken on Oathkeeper Upgrades. Looks like Sandeeps ones were either not a worry book 4 or it slipped through the cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Adran said: You certainly can't summon beyond the rare limit, even if some of the models are buried. This was verified with Myranda trying to turn into a rare 1 which was already buried. Since the rule seems to rely on rarity I would expect the same to apply. Especially given if the upgrade is rare 1 and already attached then there's no additional copy to attach. Though this could be barking up the wrong clockwork dress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yeah, rarity should work the same for models and upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 In my opinion I agree. But see OP FAQ quote, according to it my opinion does not matter. 10 hours ago, Jinn said: Preemptively, I'll just leave this FAQ here in case someone brings up the Rare 1 limit:38) Some Actions/Abilities allow models to attach Upgrades during the game. Do these Actions/Abilities need to adhere to the restrictions listed on the Upgrade, or can they be attached to any model? Upgrade restrictions only affect the hiring process, and have no in game effect, so these Upgrades may be attached to any model. If there are any restrictions they will be noted in the Action or Ability’s description. It is worth noting some such Actions and Abilities bother noting “ignoring restrictions” but this is simply reminder text which was put on when there was space available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 That still doesn't deal with the fact that a rare 1 upgrade is limited to 1 copy and if that copy is already attached then you have no more "copies" to attach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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