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Gremlins and GG18 - A new hope?!? (current state)


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On 11/10/2017 at 2:25 PM, Ikiwith said:

I have been looking at some different Game report during the GG18 and I think that it's not only difficult for gremlin,it's also difficult for some other factions. Mostly of the game end with 6-8 VP and only few of them have 10 VP.

Probably because at least two that I can remember (Ply for Information and Public Execution) are one or the other for strategy points. Both players can't score from the strat on the same turn. This leaves scheme's, and there are a few more scheme's where scoring a 3 is rather difficult, but 1s and 2s are easily managed. Basically the only 10 games will be 10-6 at best if both players scored max scheme points.

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44 minutes ago, Jafar said:

After Errata and final GG I think that Wong will be solid pick in many situations. Sommer should lose his "top pick" position, because now having too much cheap easy to kill or engage models will be disadvantage.

 

 

 

 

Somer can play elite lists pretty well by giving out suits and having encouragement for easy :+fateflips. Put encouragement on Sammy and Somer can easily bring the pain.

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I am liking GG18 with Gremlins simply because it changes completely which models work best in the strats. The change in what models work best has actually got me enthused about playing Gremlins more and I think GG18 looks to favor tough high cost models which we have but were very rarely picked due to out activation and cheap high damage beaters being what worked best in previous years.

With the table quarter strat you need quality rather than needs quantity of models and summoned models don't count. I can see Ours become a much better strat for Brewmaster and Zipp compared to Interferance being Som'ers strat. We are also going to need to bring the tough high end costing models like Gracie and the Emissary instead of 3 Bayou Gremlins to score the quarters.

I am expecting piglets and survivors are going to replace Bayous as the cheap scheme running option in some pools as they are more resilient and as @Dogmantra mentioned piglets are going to be brilliant for Ply for Information. The Pigapult and Trixie seem to be potential auto takes in Symbols of Authority to almost guarantee removal of a marker a turn. Plus pigapult make public demo very easy to do.

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2 hours ago, PositronMike said:

With the table quarter strat you need quality rather than needs quantity of models and summoned models don't count. I can see Ours become a much better strat for Brewmaster and Zipp compared to Interferance being Som'ers strat. We are also going to need to bring the tough high end costing models like Gracie and the Emissary instead of 3 Bayou Gremlins to score the quarters.

I don't really see any reason why you're forced into taking high cost models in Ours! over taking lots of models - everyone* has the same 60 stones' worth of quarter-holding to play with, regardless of if it's spread out between six models or sixteen. I would even go so far as to suggest that having lots of little boys in Ours! will be particularly useful for their granularity - 5 stones might be all you need to win a quarter but if you're holding it with McTavish then that's 6** more stones you could have used to contest another quarter. I suspect

* except Lynch and the Viktorias who get 70 because they have a 0 cost Henchman. Not sure why that rule came back, I thought it went away in the beta.

**I have a tear in my eye writing this, poor mctavish :(

Weirdly I think Gremlins were actually hit harder in Interference, since the mask paired scheme is Punish the Weak, which means it's not quite such an obviously game-winning tactic to sit back and fling bayou gremlins everywhere to win quarters.

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1 minute ago, Dogmantra said:

I don't really see any reason why you're forced into taking high cost models in Ours! over taking lots of models - everyone* has the same 60 stones' worth of quarter-holding to play with, regardless of if it's spread out between six models or sixteen. I would even go so far as to suggest that having lots of little boys in Ours! will be particularly useful for their granularity - 5 stones might be all you need to win a quarter but if you're holding it with McTavish then that's 6 more stones you could have used to contest another quarter. I suspect

* except Lynch and the Viktorias who get 70 because they have a 0 cost Henchman. Not sure why that rule came back, I thought it went away in the beta.

Weirdly I think Gremlins were actually hit harder in Interference, since the mask paired scheme is Punish the Weak, which means it's not quite such an obviously game-winning tactic to sit back and fling bayou gremlins everywhere to win quarters.

I think the argument is that it takes roughl;y 8 damage to kill an 8 ss model, and 4 damage to kill a 4 ss model. So if you do 7 damage you haven't reduced their crew size if they are full of 8 ss models, but you have managed to kill 4 ss worth if they are full of 4 ss models. 

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The way the game is design ( or should have been) is that you should always be at a disadvantage taking an "all comer list" as opposed to a list that has taken deployment/strat&scheme/opponents faction in to account.

 

Someone going to a tournament and playing the same list all 4-5 rounds and winning means in most cases he is taking underprice/broken set of models that make his all comer list an advantage.

Yes player skill but we are in a bubble assuming for all player skill being equal.

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9 hours ago, Tris said:

Isn`t that how the game is supposed to be played?

What i meant was that i wouldn't mind to have a chance to use more models that actually can win in certain scenario rather than narrow down the choice to few of them for all scenarios. There is a difference when you can pick model A, B, C or D for certain game as all of them were good choices and the situation when you really can choose between A and B because C and D sucks.

Not long ago I had a discussion where people were accusing Gremlins players for using a narrow pool of models all the time. Now the pool has shrunk even more. We got cheaper minions when GG18 punishes taking cheap, easy to kill minions. Well done :)

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1 hour ago, daniello_s said:

What i meant was that i wouldn't mind to have a chance to use more models that actually can win in certain scenario rather than narrow down the choice to few of them for all scenarios. There is a difference when you can pick model A, B, C or D for certain game as all of them were good choices and the situation when you really can choose between A and B because C and D sucks.

Not long ago I had a discussion where people were accusing Gremlins players for using a narrow pool of models all the time. Now the pool has shrunk even more. We got cheaper minions when GG18 punishes taking cheap, easy to kill minions. Well done :)

I wouldn't put all that much stock in the doom-saying, personally. IME you can't say much about a given GG's meta until well into the spring. Give it three months at minimum. I think that @Dogmantra made an excellent point about how cheap models can claim an empty quarter just as well as expensive models. Outactivation given alpha strike is still probably valid and so on. Some people are painting this as an immediate giant shift into a very tiny pen but we shall see.

Besides, unless you are super evenly matches skill-wise with your opponent, it's still most often the skill that decides how things turn out. Taking a somewhat "sub-optimal" list might also result in the opponent being ill-prepared for it.

Finally, Schemes can make a huge difference. Cheap stuff does Schemes better than expensive stuff much of the time.

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I played a 3 round GG18 tournament with Gremlins on Saturday and have to say that my most influential model through out the 3 rounds was Fingers. He just causes so many issues for opponents especially in Ply for Information. He is also really good in Ours as he is highly mobile so can get to whichever quarter you need. This combined with how easily he can shut down and score Guarded Treasure at the same time makes him very close to an ever present in that strat for me.

Ours was a tough one for me as the cheap models I had taken to help control quarters were either killed or were countered by a much more expensive model. Still pondering how best to cope with it as cheap models can be overwhelmed easily. I think Brewie can do very well in it by bringing Tanuki from TT and Zipp is excellent at it due to his mobility so he can easily get to whichever quarter you need him in to either contest or score.

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18 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

After a game of Symbols of Authority i can say that Zipp + Earl, First Mate, Merris and Iron Skeeter with some cheap, fast passenger will rock in this Strategy. Their mobility is so crazy they can easily pick a strategy marker each turn.

Zipp also helps defend your markers, combined with Fingers you can almost guarantee that you will have a marker left on the table at the end of the turn. 

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Saw local tournament with GG18. when I spoke with Gremlin player*, he said that now he will try to use more tanky models like Gracie or maybe Emissary (min 3 dmg is still nice), also he said that it's easy to score some points if you have "obey" like things so Ophelia & Zoraida may go up one Tier. Also fingers did great things, enemy was unable to score some points and had to kill Fingers first.

 

 

*I played Arcanists, but planning to have some Gremlin masters ready for summer)

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Fingers will be a key model now. With Stilts to keep him alive as long as possible.

Definitely. He was in my crew every game of the tournament. Chatty is amazing in GG18 and I saw it first is excellent. 

Scheme marker removal actions are also going to be very useful which is making me think Brewmaster using Kegger might become an interesting choice.

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Got couple games under my belt this weekend.

Having activation control helps ( obviously ) but having survivable models or models with long range attacks is almost better.

Looking at Z as the main master now ( control )

With up-front finger with DC+ Stilts for scheming.

Backline with raph/remi/trixi/sammy

1-2 survivors as a discount schemer ( bayous are overpriced now and die too quickly ) 

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5 hours ago, PositronMike said:

Ours was a tough one for me as the cheap models I had taken to help control quarters were either killed or were countered by a much more expensive model. Still pondering how best to cope with it as cheap models can be overwhelmed easily. I think Brewie can do very well in it by bringing Tanuki from TT and Zipp is excellent at it due to his mobility so he can easily get to whichever quarter you need him in to either contest or score.

I may be wrong but I think that in Ours you'll want a mix of more expensive models that can anchor a quarter and less expensive mobile models that can be shifted between quarters as needs for more granularity. 

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55 minutes ago, PolishSausage said:

look at Desp Mercs/ Guild Guard/ both Hounds.

Our Grems need a Min shoot 5 to even come close to competing.

I honestly think they are pretty balanced. 

Hounds need to run in pairs, same as guild guard who are wk 4. Desperate merc are range 8".

Bayous have Drunk and reckless and Bayou Two Cards.

I'm not saying bayous are better but I wouldn't put them above or below the rest with confidence. Each of the models has strenghts and weaknesses

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