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Spam of “that damage cannot be reduced”


Fazza92

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It's possible to place stuff dead center that serves as ht3 blocking. I once did a Turf War with a church dead center, which created some amusing dancing around. She can place the Blasts anywhere she likes as long as it satisfies 12" and LOS, which I suppose could work with Ht3 models...but then you're probably spending most if not all AP to walk into positioning, then tapping your own model as well.

Also "bunching up" is spoken of in the context of models clustering almost b2b. It's why I was able to get both the Doppelganger and the Depleted in one activation, as my opponent had put them in b2b. Rare are the effects that require you to be as close as the span of a blast marker, and if you don't need to be, you can force Misaki to single-target with blast markers.

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7 hours ago, Pyrflamme said:

It's possible to place stuff dead center that serves as ht3 blocking. I once did a Turf War with a church dead center, which created some amusing dancing around. She can place the Blasts anywhere she likes as long as it satisfies 12" and LOS, which I suppose could work with Ht3 models...but then you're probably spending most if not all AP to walk into positioning, then tapping your own model as well.

Also "bunching up" is spoken of in the context of models clustering almost b2b. It's why I was able to get both the Doppelganger and the Depleted in one activation, as my opponent had put them in b2b. Rare are the effects that require you to be as close as the span of a blast marker, and if you don't need to be, you can force Misaki to single-target with blast markers.

Bunching up against Misaki is basically having models within 14 inches of each other since she can place the markers so far out.

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I played The Storm Misaki on a table with a bunch of Ht 3+ terrain and it almost doesn't matter given that you need to block LoS between almost all of your models to be truly safe. It is ridiculously difficult space out your models enough to truly avoid the blasts. If Misaki, with a probable 20" threat range after she activates (not including Yu pushes in that range), can attack a model while within LoS of two other models she should be able to get an easy 11 damage attack off with 3+3 of that unreducable, then another possible 11 damage attack after that. That is a lot of damage, and it can go up very easily if your opponent hasn't painstakingly spread out their models just to get you down to the 11ish damage.

This would be, perhaps, just very strong in a normal alpha strike situation but if you stack the Charm Warder on top of that it becomes completely busted. You can decide to do this alpha any time in a turn with relatively low risk (especially on top of Risk & Reward healing) due to either a charm of hiding or a charm of vanishing, which, combined with the distance away from their threats you can do this damage, leaves them with no way to really react or punish you.

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On 16/11/2017 at 6:54 AM, Ludvig said:

Bunching up against Misaki is basically having models within 14 inches of each other since she can place the markers so far out.

Sort of yes, but she can only hit 2 models if you aren't bunched up in the normal sense. If you are bunched up she can easily hit more than 2 models. 

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They should just say 'ignore amor' then. Cannot be reduced is way too simple and direct and create some absurd things in my opinion like :

misaki blasts can't be reduced by 'blast proof' but do nothing against freikorps suits (and freikorps pretty much all have armor).

So blast proof which is an already rare and not so powerfull ( can be useless or very good but against some specific crews) is countered by.... blasts....

On the other side models with armor where you need the 'can't be reduced' thing are also immune to misaki's blasts. 

 

My main problem with misaki is that i'm a collodi player. You can have models not really bunched up when running the collodi bubble against typical blasters and puppet master can keep you alive. But with misaki even the 6" bubble is way too bunched up and she can get through personal puppet. Like she hit a marionette (ml 7 vs df 5, easy) cheat severe and now my marionette and two other model (lets say personal marionette and collodi) take 3. You do it twice and you have killed one marionette + one other (personal puppet or an effigy for example) and collodi is now 3hp left of 9 (if i don't stone). You can say that she need positioning and i should'nt have model such that she can hit 2 with the 2 blast marker but since collodi and effigy buffs are 6" or 8" with los needed at least when you cast it this is very very hard to do.

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On 17/11/2017 at 12:32 PM, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Just an idea for Malifaux 2.5E/3E: make Armor a non-stackable ability that reduces damage by exactly one. Probably one of the reasons of recent "cannot be reduced" spam lays in the inability of some crews to deal with Armor +2 models. Armor +2 is a monstrous AP sink for unprepared opponent.

Almost all of the models with printed Armour+2  are not monstrous sinks for anyone to kill. They may be slow, but you learn, that you might be better focussing and getting 1 high damage hit rather than 2 low damage hits, or they are easy to hit, so die to a high number of weak attacks (most of which will hit because they are often low Df)

 

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Just now, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

that's what I consider an AP sink.

I was talking about attacks that have a minimum damage 1, or possibly 2 as a weak attack, in which case  the Armour+2 is not the reason they aren't dying fast. 

But a model with no armour and a high Df stat could be worse. . It'll need a lot more weak  low attacks to kill it, because they miss and don't hurt it, where as against the Armor they are still doing the same damage. 

You have to be doing 3+ damage before armour +2 is better than armour+1, which eitehr means you have a beater , who probably should be focusing to get moderate or severe, or you are getting lucky with non beater models hitting well.  

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I realized it's worse than I thought. "Cannot be reduced" also ignores bulletproof and arcane shielding, things which older models with "ignore armour" and/or "ignore incorporeal" do not.

Either go back to the old wording, or make Shikome ignore incorporeal, defensive triggers, and arcane shielding on their Rend trigger too.

Thalarian Quellers should not exist at all.

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On 11/20/2017 at 5:33 PM, Adran said:

You have to be doing 3+ damage before armour +2 is better than armour+1, which eitehr means you have a beater , who probably should be focusing to get moderate or severe

I'm not sure weak damage of 3 would really classify anyone as a beater, but that's a besides the point here really.

What I actually wanted to say was that you probably shouldn't be focusing with a model that has a weak damage 3. A vast majority of models like that have a moderate of only 4. If you don't take cheating into account, they have a much higher expected value for the damage if they don't focus. Even if you think you could cheat the damage flip to severe if you focus, you should really consider whether that's actually the most effective way of using that card. Often it's better used elsewhere unless you can guarantee a kill with it or get some blasts as well.

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