Tips against Neverborns

[RedMacho]

Hello, i have a problem with Lilith. Can't defeat in her 3 times in a row. Can u give some tips against her green friends? 

[WWHSD]

46 minutes ago, RedMacho said:

Hello, i have a problem with Lilith. Can't defeat in her 3 times in a row. Can u give some tips against her green friends? 

Information about what they ran, what you ran, and what the encounter was like would probably get you more useful feedback.

[RedMacho]

4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Information about what they ran, what you ran, and what the encounter was like would probably get you more useful feedback.

ok i played against lilith starter set with teddy( in general: lilith, barbaros, 2 terror tots, teddy, baby kade), i have played with ulix, warpig, 3 wildboars, old mayor, burt jebsen and penelope. Also played in other game as ophelia,francois,remi,raphael,lenny,burt and young lacroix

[SAYNE]

Ulix (and his pigs) suffer to teddy and co. heavily due to having low WP and no means of condition removal (as far as i'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong). That and ulix's crew tends to lack shenanigans and alternate ways to get things done besides attacking, and you set yourself up pretty badly for terrifying/manipulative crews.

This is at least why I try to avoid running ulix into NB and Ressers.

Do you remember what your schemes and strat were? Something like Interference or Recon would probably benefit you more than something like turf war if you felt you MUST pick ulix into NB, since you can spread out and minimize your losses.

[RedMacho]

56 minutes ago, SAYNE said:

Ulix (and his pigs) suffer to teddy and co. heavily due to having low WP and no means of condition removal (as far as i'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong). That and ulix's crew tends to lack shenanigans and alternate ways to get things done besides attacking, and you set yourself up pretty badly for terrifying/manipulative crews.

This is at least why I try to avoid running ulix into NB and Ressers.

Do you remember what your schemes and strat were? Something like Interference or Recon would probably benefit you more than something like turf war if you felt you MUST pick ulix into NB, since you can spread out and minimize your losses.

i played claim jump and frame for murder, others don't remember

[lame0]

1 hour ago, RedMacho said:

ok i played against lilith starter set with teddy( in general: lilith, barbaros, 2 terror tots, teddy, baby kade), i have played with ulix, warpig, 3 wildboars, old mayor, burt jebsen and penelope. Also played in other game as ophelia,francois,remi,raphael,lenny,burt and young lacroix

Is there a certain model causing the largest problem or is it just an overall type of thing.

For stuff in general though I personally like to take trixibelle vs Neverborn because it puts major pressure on them since:

1) Gremlin lure is vs wp (which lilith has a low one). Also it helps deal with barbaros displacing him 8 and potentially slowing him (he shows up often enough)

2) It also puts them into a position that they are not comfortable with since doppleganger is often an auto include for many neverborn lists.  Having your own Ill Omens model can often ruin or scare them from making some plays they can usually count on.  

Also imo Ulix has a super rough time going into neverborn so I don't like to take that fight (slow pigs with low wp....is a bad place to be). If it were me I'd go Somer and make the key models high (for their cost) wp. It's not that every model they have targets it but many masters and support really get a ton out of it .(some of the models include Barbaros, teddy, all the terrifying / horror duels, dopple, lilitu (lure), incite (iggy/ pandora), rougarou & most of their good masters (Collodi, Dreamer (less but still that gun on wp 4 is stupid), Pandora, Zoraida, Lilith, titania)

I like something like:

Somer

- family tree 

- do over

- liquid bravery 

2x skeeters

Francois 

Trixibelle

Burt 

- Dirty Cheater

Lightning Bug

Slop Hauler

3x Bayou Gremlin

 

This mean you have 11 models to start with ( + 3 more bayou) so thats 14 models and then your 8 minions end up having wp 6-7 with the down the hatch action off of somer or a skeeter. This leaves your list without big holes to wp and your lowest wp model is trixibelle but since she has rg 18 on the action she is usually going to use she should be ok. Also what i like is that even if this big wp resist is somewhat overkill it really is only costing me: 

swapping taxidermist + dirty cheater + stilts from francois

for a lightning bug + bayou + liquid bravery 

Which honestly are great models anyway. Depending on schemes and stuff you can change other stuff around but this is where I start when building a list vs them.  For example encouragement for a skeeter isn't a terrible trade because trixi is pretty great with it since she only has to tie you to get full effect of her lure so getting + flips makes it a huge pain to prevent (I'll take one damage any day to make the enemy cheat first and waste lots of high cards). That becomes more useful depending on schemes and what part of the board you need to be at.  

 

There are other masters like Zipp who also do pretty good vs Neverborn but I like somer because I think the crew I like to take with him most of the time is pretty prepared to deal with quite a few of the issues neverborn bring. 

[SAYNE]

If you're running claim jump, some more models with reckless probably would have helped, as the only one in the ulix list was Burt, and he would be much better spent in combat with some pork. His sic em girl trigger might be pretty useful in that regard too. Against the enemy list, your best bet would probably be to neuter their ability to score by having the boars chase down the tots and then spend the majority of the rest of the game just tying up your opponent and not dying.

Ulix + wall of pork + defensive stance can make your models difficult to kill, and if you don't attack the teddy or kade, chances are you're going to deny your opponent Frame for Murder and have less paralyzed (read useless) models too.

All in all, i'm not too sure without seeing a full breakdown, and especially the strategy where most of the points will be scored. Some models that might also benefit you are:

- Merris - Can't stress her ability to score for such a low price tag. Her largest issue is lack of a melee and as such will likely die soon if Lillith can tangle shadow her in.

- Swine-cursed. Magical ability is special against NB and in particular models that rely on those defenses. Also has half-synergy with Ulix as well since they're also pigs.

-Slop Haulers. Put another 10 feet on that wall of pork.

- Gracie. Capable of holding her own and dragging some other slower units (read: Slop Haulers) around. Add on all the bonus attacks and reactivate and the potential to Eat your Fill, you have possibly one of the more damaging, mobile, tanky models in the game.

Some more specialized things to consider are any models which are "relentless". I can't remember the keyword, but it's models who ignore WP duels during their activations. These are super useful when picking into NB for the variety of manipulative and terrifying they possess.

[RedMacho]

ok thank you for the advices

[lame0]

Last little thing is if you do take Ulix into Lilith take liquid bravery to have a chance(which sucks because I usually take him with 3 of his own upgrades). Main reason is since Lilith doesn't need Los to anything + she has tangle shadows  Ulix is screwed even if she wastes her whole activation +2-3 stones for suite getting it off. Having to fend that off with wp 5 is really hard unless you are stubborn off liquid bravery (even then an aggressive player can blow her whole cache to do it). If she gets off the swap def 6 + impossible to wound and only 10 wounds isn't going to do anything vs nekima, teddy or a couple rougarou. It also doesn't help that the pigs start to collapse without ulix around.

I think Lilith is the main reason you can't take a fragile master into neverborn because she can always threaten the swap and punish hard if she gets it off. (Zoraida could be okay cus of that dirty wp10)

[DanteJH]

One upgrade

liquid bravery 

have fun