Wave 5 refining our meta

[Nikodemus]

2 hours ago, exliontamer said:

Although I think it's pretty clear in the rules that the first step of "performing" an Action is to declare it...it would be nice to always reference the same verb to avoid confusion. /rant

If they ever do M3E I really wish they do an internal "style guide" and use it going forward. Consistent wording in rules writing is amazing when it's done.

[exliontamer]

2 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

If they ever do M3E I really wish they do an internal "style guide" and use it going forward. Consistent wording in rules writing is amazing when it's done.

Agreed! Same major problem I've always had with GW's games...sloppy or loose rules writing breeds rules lawyering at the table. And the flip a coin/roll a die compromise doesn't feel good, ever. Whatever your opinion of MtG may be, one of the nicest things about it is that it has a very precise lexicon. They reuse the same words and phrasing as much as they possibly can, and every game action has a specific verb that is always used. I feel that Wyrd tries to do this as well, but they don't always succeed.

[-Loki-]

On 10/27/2017 at 4:12 PM, Sanik said:

4. Titania: The winner of the Wave 5. the New upgrade finally made her "the tank master" she meant to be. I personally don't play her, but played against her few times, and boy can she take hits. She excels at any holding ground type of strats (i.e. extraction, guard the stashes).  Before Titania, our solution to holding ground games were to lure the opponents out of the holding position or simply try to out number them (*cough*dreamer*cough*) but, now we have an option to get inside and play some good ol' smashmouth football!

I was a huge fan of Royal Indignation until I actually tried Pact with the Grave Spirit. Tanking is fine, but when the enemy models are dead you don't exactly need to.

If you hit a target near 2 scheme markers (not hard with Titania) she can put 12/13/14 on a single target, 15/16/17 if it's a master if she kicks it off with Bloody Command. Pact makes her really good at single model nuking. The key to it is Rot Within doing 4 damage, with no damage track. It means all you need is a draw to hit its damage. If you have 2 scheme markers near the target, you also only need a draw since a low damage with 2 markers will get 4 damage on the target to make Rot Within hit its maximum and get 12 on a non-Master, 15 on a Master. And if something has already lost 4 wounds, she can go to town with Rot Within.

4 damage doesn't sound like a lot, but for Titania, it's essentially a guaranteed Severe, since her attacks are all Severe 4 at most. It's also not a attack, and neither is Bloody Command, so she can lend this sort of damage output to engagements 8" away helps a lot as well.

[santaclaws01]

3 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I was a huge fan of Royal Indignation until I actually tried Pact with the Grave Spirit. Tanking is fine, but when the enemy models are dead you don't exactly need to.

If you hit a target near 2 scheme markers (not hard with Titania) she can put 12/13/14 on a single target, 15/16/17 if it's a master if she kicks it off with Bloody Command. Pact makes her really good at single model nuking. The key to it is Rot Within doing 4 damage, with no damage track. It means all you need is a draw to hit its damage. If you have 2 scheme markers near the target, you also only need a draw since a low damage with 2 markers will get 4 damage on the target to make Rot Within hit its maximum and get 12 on a non-Master, 15 on a Master. And if something has already lost 4 wounds, she can go to town with Rot Within.

4 damage doesn't sound like a lot, but for Titania, it's essentially a guaranteed Severe, since her attacks are all Severe 4 at most. It's also not a attack, and neither is Bloody Command, so she can lend this sort of damage output to engagements 8" away helps a lot as well.

Yeah, figuring out when the right time to use either upgrade is the real kicker between them, as they're both very good. I think Royal Indignation is better with a denial set up and doing the behold my glory+Barbaros combo. It also depends on what master you expect to face. Against Arcanists I would usually go PwtGS, as they skew towards 5s and 6s on WP, and against Outcast I'd go with Indignation, as they tend to have higher WP.

[Mutter]

12 hours ago, -Loki- said:

And if something has already lost 4 wounds, she can go to town with Rot Within.

Since you always need a unless going up against a master, I'm not really convinced of the viability ...

[-Loki-]

15 hours ago, Mutter said:

Since you always need a unless going up against a master, I'm not really convinced of the viability ...

I'm fairly certain that as a master she can use SS?

[Mutter]

Yeah, but surely you're not telling me that you consistently spend 3 ss every turn for that damage track?

[Ludvig]

2 hours ago, Mutter said:

Yeah, but surely you're not telling me that you consistently spend 3 ss every turn for that damage track?

You probably shouldn't need to do that too many turns in a row and you could be drawing one or two of those high crows. Having a decent master sniping tool isn't too shabby.

[Mutter]

14 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Having a decent master sniping tool isn't too shabby.

Yes, but the discussion above was specifically not 'only' about master sniping. I agree that the upgrade works beautifully against masters, I just find it too resource-intensive for 'normal' use (and the predicted damage output against non-masters).

But as always, ymmv ...

[-Loki-]

How many expensive, tough models is your opponent fielding that you want to hammer with a reliable 12/13/14 damage? Her single target nuking makes her a scalpel. It'll eat some SS if you don't have the Crows in hand and it's not a Master, but being able to remove an expensive, tough non-Master model with that kind of damage, in addition to their Master without the resources, is absolutely worth it.

Even then, Crows aren't high in demand with Neverborn, so having some higher mid ranged Crows to throw a Rot Within at something already damaged, probably engaged with another Fae can be a good way to force your opponent to throw higher cards at stopping it (since, again, only needing a draw to hit the maximum damage if they've suffered 4 wounds already is pretty great).

[Ludvig]

@Mutter 

I'm just trying to be positive.

I missed the part about being good vs masters not mattering. Since masters are a major threat to her it's good to have something to keep them scared in return but to each their own, that's the beauty of the upgrades. As Loki said we're probably talking one other model per game where you need to go all out like that.

[Azkral]

I think the problem with Pact with the Grave Spirit is that Royal Indignation is awesome.

Edit. And also that Audience with the Queen is non-leader only.

[-Loki-]

4 minutes ago, Azkral said:

I think the problem with Pact with the Grave Spirit is that Royal Indignation is awesome.

See, I had the opposite reaction.

But I think that shows the strength of the two upgrades. They're both great, it just depends on what you want Titania to do and what you expect your opponent to field.

[Da Git]

As usual, I agree with @-Loki-, I really like PwtGS.  Not just for the attack.  The game I had the other day against Asami, I actually used everything but The Rot Within.  The No SS or Healing was just brutal against her!  I was also using the free suits to get the push trigger with A Wicked Silence.  Against masters that have poor Df/great Wp, being able to freely choose which trigger on Bloody Command will be super useful to either heal or get other models (say Nekima or Teddy) in there swinging.

Thinking my go to upgrades on her are going to be Pact with the Grave Spirit and then usually Behold My Glory and Queen's Champion (which I love), but I may sub these out for Aether Connection, Taproot or maybe The Forest Claims All.

I also have a new love in the Emissary.  Being able to give Titania Armour 1 covers the tankiness from no Royal Indignation as well as everything else he can do with the Conflux is just so good!  Just need to get a to get the Hungering Land to get those suits/heals.

[feagaur]

I played beater dreamer against Royal Indignation Titania last night and Dreamer came out on top.

Turn 3 Titania charged Lord Chompy (who was out from the previous turn), and put a bit of damage on him. It didn't help him that his first hit he sac''d the two scheme markers to give him +2 damage on his -ve flip and got the black joker. Chompy then hit twice and converted into Dreamer. Dreamer then hit 4 times and killed Titania, pulling out Chompy again. The royal indignation worked ok against Chompy reducing the damage a little, but as soon as Dreamer started hitting out it was pretty useless.

Chompy then went on to kill The Thorn in that turn, so 8AP from Dreamer/Chompy combo in one turn!