FinalForm Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 02.11.2017 at 2:23 PM, Adran said: 1) Sonnia can easily hit models at about 30" from where she starts. Her blast placement rules mean that its very hard to have several of your models close enough to each other to do the card draw and reformation, and be safe from her. 2) So yes Its a tactic that you can use and it will catch people out that aren't expecting it. But Its fairly signposted at deployment if you hide everythign away. And likewise, it doesn't have that long a threat range if you are having to hide everything away. 3) I'm a big fan of the desolation engine, and like to look at ways to abuse it, and whilst this is potentuially a nice route, its pretty reliant on the surprise against several masters. 1)It all depends on board. On the board with 4-5 houses or similar los-blocks you can easily play all this stuff while being out of los. 2)I agree here. 3)As almost any non-default alphastrike list does. I'm going to arguments from authority now) It is not 100% fact that it works but best Russian Outcast player Mamed Guseyn played this list on big tournaments and have amazing score like 4-0 or something like this. This is not auto-pick list for any opponent but on many types of board vs most of the masters this list should perform well. Try it for yourself. It is pretty good and it is very funny to play with it. P.s sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 hours ago, FinalForm said: 1)It all depends on board. On the board with 4-5 houses or similar los-blocks you can easily play all this stuff while being out of los. 2)I agree here. 3)As almost any non-default alphastrike list does. I'm going to arguments from authority now) It is not 100% fact that it works but best Russian Outcast player Mamed Guseyn played this list on big tournaments like Malifaux International Neighbourhood and have amazing score like 4-0 or something like this. This is not auto-pick list for any opponent but on many types of board vs most of the masters this list should perform well. Try it for yourself. It is pretty good and it is very funny to play with it. P.s sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say) I'd love to see this list in action. We have a Levi player in our meta that I might try to get to play this, he loves playing around with exploding A&D with Levi to teleport around, and almost always runs the Deso to get 1st turn activation control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted November 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 How are people feeling about Sonnia's new upgrades? Have they drastically changed her playstyle or are the old upgrades still taking precedence? Summoning her totem mulitple times a game seems like it could be good especially with it's anti-soulstone aura, but from what I understand of Sonnia, the Malifaux Child seems like the better choice. Melee Sonnia sounds like a fun gimmick, but doesn't seem very competitive :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 36 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said: How are people feeling about Sonnia's new upgrades? Have they drastically changed her playstyle or are the old upgrades still taking precedence? Summoning her totem mulitple times a game seems like it could be good especially with it's anti-soulstone aura, but from what I understand of Sonnia, the Malifaux Child seems like the better choice. Melee Sonnia sounds like a fun gimmick, but doesn't seem very competitive :/ Counterspell and Imprint still seem like auto-takes to me but one slot could be used for a new upgrade. Cherfure's parting gift (chain activation and totem summon) has me intrigued but I haven't gotten many games in so I haven't played Sonnia since the upgrades hit. With the parting gift you can do chain stuff like setting things on fire and capitalising on that before they remove it. It has me really excited about giving Samael another chance. Sonnia blasts to make stuff visible through fire and Sam companions with a rapid fire. You could also set things on fire with a witchling before a Samael charge. You could shoot with Sonnia and walk something in to block the charge they wanted to make and you can use one of the witch hunters that push her and then be sure to let her shoot before something new engages her. I think it allows you to be more agressive with her. Even if you have the child you might find you want to prevent soulstone use on someone a few turns in when stuff is already engaged and you really want to take out an otherwise well protected model or make it harder for them to get actions with suit requirements off. With counterspell on Sonnia there are certain models that usually stone for suits, shutting that down could be better than getting the flame walls late game. The combat one could be ok as a get the hell out of dodge thing if they kill Francisco and tie you in melee. It looks like it should combo with reincarnation since you could be drawing cards and setting things on fire to actually get some summons but then you're eating into the good upgrade slots. Using walls to block access to the scary elements would allow you to be more agressive with Sonnia I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted November 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 I played a team game a few months ago with Lucius and Sonnia, I know teams breaks the game, but you can get 4 sets of walls out and basically our opponents couldn't get out of their deployment zone. Two sets of walls in a game seems just so strong that I feel like I'm gonna have a hard time not using them. Maybe in a super killy scenario I could see Sonnia's totem be more useful, but even then if my opponent is going to be gunning for my crew so stopping their big beaters from getting to me also seems like a good play. I'll definitely try the new upgrades, they just seem lackluster to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Not sure how Lucius would be getting any walls out, did you do some weird copy of the child's Just like you? The thing with walls is that they're not allowed to be near markers or models so in the later stages of the game you might not be able to shut down their charge lanes. Note that I said I would probably still hire the child and only summon the totem if I thought it would be better somewhere during the game. Lets say you need to kill a neverborn soulstone user with that upgrade that makes them prevent extra much damage with soulstones because you picked a quick murder but they have five soulstones left so can prevent at least 10 damage, possibly more. That totem may start to seem apetizing. I think the companion at an extended range for several models in the crew is worth 1ss alone. The melee one seems decidely meh, the push isn't enough to disengage you from about 80% of the models that will try to engage you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Ludvig said: Counterspell and Imprint still seem like auto-takes to me but one slot could be used for a new upgrade. I actually think Counterspell isn`t that necessary unless versus Lures so Ressers/Outcasts/Neverborn. I don`t think I`d take it vs Guild, AR or Gremlins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, trikk said: I actually think Counterspell isn`t that necessary unless versus Lures so Ressers/Outcasts/Neverborn. I don`t think I`d take it vs Guild, AR or Gremlins I thought arcanists needed suits on some of their casts like Kaeris, Firestarter, performer and Colette at least? I think a few of the frozen hearted casters also need a suit although I know Raspy doesn't. Gremlins have a decent likelyhood of turning up with Zoraida. I guess I could be a bit more daring to get to try some new stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ludvig said: I thought arcanists needed suits on some of their casts like Kaeris, Firestarter, performer and Colette at least? I think a few of the frozen hearted casters also need a suit although I know Raspy doesn't. Gremlins have a decent likelyhood of turning up with Zoraida. I guess I could be a bit more daring to get to try some new stuff. The likelyhood of Kaeris and Firestarter aren`t big enough to make it mandatory. Colette doesn`t use offensive spells so its pretty hard for it to work. Gremlins might turn with Zoraida but if its Zoraida vs Sonnia I`d put my money on Sonnia. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalForm Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, trikk said: Gremlins might turn with Zoraida but if its Zoraida vs Sonnia I`d put my money on Sonnia. in addition guild has Numb to words for say peacekeeper, that makes most of Zoraidas abilities useless. Counterspell aura+ Peacekeeper with numb to words seem like 85-90% winrate here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 I'm interested in big z in the new meta. Potential to be really scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 The thing with numb to the world is that it's still pretty good to charge double swinecursed or something into that PK. The condition ignoring requires you to drop the upgrade, doesn't it? So you are safe fron her obeys but she can still hem and paralyze that model and obey the rest of your crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Ludvig said: The thing with numb to the world is that it's still pretty good to charge double swinecursed or something into that PK. The condition ignoring requires you to drop the upgrade, doesn't it? So you are safe fron her obeys but she can still hem and paralyze that model and obey the rest of your crew. The charge trigger is once per turn I think and if they are charging swinrcursed I dont think Counterspell aura matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Ludvig said: The thing with numb to the world is that it's still pretty good to charge double swinecursed or something into that PK. The condition ignoring requires you to drop the upgrade, doesn't it? So you are safe fron her obeys but she can still hem and paralyze that model and obey the rest of your crew. You`re always immune to enemy conditions, and you can discard a card to prevent that model from being obeyed. The upgrade always stays where it is. 1 minute ago, trikk said: The charge trigger is once per turn I think and if they are charging swinrcursed I dont think Counterspell aura matters No, counterspell aura doesn`t really matter when you get charged by armor ignoring were-pigs, and neither does numb to the world^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Thanks for the correction Tris, I've never actually fielded that upgrade. Nothing matters when the Were-pigs come. That's the point I was trying to get across here. What I'm hearing here is drop my counterspell safety net and go melee Sonnia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Thanks for the correction Tris, I've never actually fielded that upgrade. Nothing matters when the Were-pigs come. That's the point I was trying to get across here. What I'm hearing here is drop my counterspell safety net and go melee Sonnia? Pre-wave 5 I had Aura + Imprint in most games and I realized that I had a ton of games when Aura didn`t do anything. I think Imprint + Sword+ Reincarnation can be fun as you can get out of melee reliably (even if you are Ca7 for the rest of the turn). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Thanks for the correction Tris, I've never actually fielded that upgrade. You should, it`s fantastic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, trikk said: Pre-wave 5 I had Aura + Imprint in most games and I realized that I had a ton of games when Aura didn`t do anything. I think Imprint + Sword+ Reincarnation can be fun as you can get out of melee reliably (even if you are Ca7 for the rest of the turn). You can get out of melee with range 1" models reliably. Anyone with 2" will keep you there for two of your three ap assuming you have the cards to beat their df. I use the buff for defence in plenty of games actually, the cast usually does the trick already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ludvig said: You can get out of melee with range 1" models reliably. Anyone with 2" will keep you there for two of your three ap assuming you have the cards to beat their df. I use the buff for defence in plenty of games actually, the cast usually does the trick already. Unless they are in B2B with you you can get out with 1Ap from anything that doesn`t have 3" engage. Using the sword vs getting out of engagement has its merits. You deal damage, can get a stalker if its chaff and you draw cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, trikk said: Unless they are in B2B with you you can get out with 1Ap from anything that doesn`t have 3" engage. Using the sword vs getting out of engagement has its merits. You deal damage, can get a stalker if its chaff and you draw cards. Most opponents should be used to the austringer's 2" push and be careful to contact her base. I'm still going to have to try melee summoner Sonnia, I've based my extra witchlings but I'm prioritising Doc's beasties for my next tournament. After that I may be looking at a few months of Sonnia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 18 hours ago, Ludvig said: I thought arcanists needed suits on some of their casts like Kaeris, Firestarter, performer and Colette at least? I think a few of the frozen hearted casters also need a suit although I know Raspy doesn't. Raspy does actually need suits for December's Curse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 So do people feel summoning Sonnia is the way to go now? I tried it out a long time ago (like beginning of 2e) and was able to summon a stalker or two but it never felt super powerful since it's so resource and AP intensive. If you are going for Reincarnation, what are you usually taking in your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 @ConfuciuSay Did she gain a way to draw 4+ cards and survive in combat? She still wants to keep at an extreme range and blast things if she can. I doubt the melee attack will make it worth it to walk and charge with her as opposed to just blasting at long range. Her companion upgrade seems more like a boost to Samael and her theme. He certainly becomes a threat now and pushing her up with a witchhunter to blast without anyone having time to counter is really good for her ranged style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 So Nurse Heartsbane is big in her list? Lol I've been futzing around with the app trying to build a list with Sonnia and I just can't seem to get one that I like. Maybe it's just not having enough experience with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 38 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said: So Nurse Heartsbane is big in her list? Lol I've been futzing around with the app trying to build a list with Sonnia and I just can't seem to get one that I like. Maybe it's just not having enough experience with her. You need to try stuff on the table. Some things seem better on paper than they are and also the other way around. Duncan Bilz (who was so good with her he likely singlehandedly caused the errata to Papa Loco) uses Francisco with hemanos de armas to buff and pull and then Grimwell for the extra move. That gets her about 8" up which lets her attack reach anything that has left the opposing deployment zone. The blasts csn reach into their deployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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