Competitive Leveticus lists

[MunkyMuddFace]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:22 PM, Davos said:

That always is a fun one.  "Oh, that weak, easy kill you were gonna get for VP?  MINE!".  "Oh, and I just killed 2 of your models and summoned a new models as well.  Cheers!"

Playing in a tourney last week. I was 1 - 1 going into the third (and last) round, so decided to bring the Horsemen list to have some fun since I was not in the running for placing. Opponent took Search the Ruins and Accuse as his schemes. Jump to the mid-Turn 5 - I have activation control, and he has gone with all of his models. He had 5 scheme markers littered around the center, and had accused a Waif that was away from the action. I activate Leveticus and use his 0 AP jump to the Waif, then used the 1 AP and pitch 3 cards to destroy three of his scheme markers (off one of his new upgrades). 4 points of VP denial in one activation. It was fantastic.

[Mxbedlam]

3 hours ago, apes-ma said:

I'm dutifully painting up Leve because I love the models and the theme, and although I am looking forward to playing with him no matter how much I look at the cards I can't really work out what he's meant to be doing. So... roll on 3rd I guess?

Here's what he does: He kills A model per turn (not a tanky model or any that uses SS). He is almost completely safe from assassination (unless Aionus or Tara is on the field).  He draws a TON of cards in a turn. He is highly mobile. He takes models he kills and turns them into aboms, gaining AP advantage. has a wildly flexible hiring pool for any situation. 

What he does not do: Kill masters or henches. He just can't anymore unless your out of soulstones. Hold points, he has to stay mobile which isn't conducive to keeping points down. 

So Levi kills but not as well as the Viks, he controls AP but not like Hamelin does. He does draw cards and turns AP around mid game, which can be swingy but he's not gonna be delivering major punches to the tankier masters. He cannot be pinned down which is awesome. Levi is the most generalist master at what is probably supposed to be the power level for generalists (unlike Sandeep who is way over the threshhold). He's solid at a few things but not amazing at any one thing.  Best comparison is to Resser McMourning since they both trade an enemy model for one of theirs. 

I like Levi, I play him a lot. He's not Hamelin or the Viks though. 

[I'm a Teapot!]

13 minutes ago, Mrbedlam said:

Here's what he does: He kills A model per turn (not a tanky model or any that uses SS). He is almost completely safe from assassination (unless Aionus or Tara is on the field).  He draws a TON of cards in a turn. He is highly mobile. He takes models he kills and turns them into aboms, gaining AP advantage. has a wildly flexible hiring pool for any situation. 

What he does not do: Kill masters or henches. He just can't anymore unless your out of soulstones. Hold points, he has to stay mobile which isn't conducive to keeping points down. 

So Levi kills but not as well as the Viks, he controls AP but not like Hamelin does. He does draw cards and turns AP around mid game, which can be swingy but he's not gonna be delivering major punches to the tankier masters. He cannot be pinned down which is awesome. Levi is the most generalist master at what is probably supposed to be the power level for generalists (unlike Sandeep who is way over the threshhold). He's solid at a few things but not amazing at any one thing.  Best comparison is to Resser McMourning since they both trade an enemy model for one of theirs. 

I like Levi, I play him a lot. He's not Hamelin or the Viks though. 

As with a lot of masters, his problem is that he has unothrodox strenghs and people dont realize that if you dont play up to a certain potential the overall result feels kind of meh for those masters.

Levis huge strengh is that he doesnt care about risk in certain situations. I've started to focus him way more towards a "risky" playstyle and he turned out to be a lot more fun and be more effective. New levi needs to creat threat and soak ap and enemy models. 

If your playing him with a Hamelin playstyle, of course he's not going to be better then hamelin. Do things with Levi which only Levi can do. Such as tie up the enemy turn 1 and waste his resources and then explode and dont care about dying. 

[Kaos]

Leveticus can kill a big model if you have the right cards in hand and you HTH it. I don't see how he can draw a ton of cards thou, since he can draw 2 but he must sacrifice a construct. 

I think is bigger advantage is the non linear threat range, but you can get something similar with rasputina and her spell arcing crew. 

Now truth to be told, I'm able to table an opponent with Leveticus and his crew, and he usually gets a tally of 3/4 models per game. 

But this doesn't mean you will win, if you don't complete your schemes. 

[apes-ma]

12 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Here's what he does: He kills A model per turn (not a tanky model or any that uses SS). He is almost completely safe from assassination (unless Aionus or Tara is on the field).  He draws a TON of cards in a turn. He is highly mobile. He takes models he kills and turns them into aboms, gaining AP advantage. has a wildly flexible hiring pool for any situation. 

What he does not do: Kill masters or henches. He just can't anymore unless your out of soulstones. Hold points, he has to stay mobile which isn't conducive to keeping points down. 

So Levi kills but not as well as the Viks, he controls AP but not like Hamelin does. He does draw cards and turns AP around mid game, which can be swingy but he's not gonna be delivering major punches to the tankier masters. He cannot be pinned down which is awesome. Levi is the most generalist master at what is probably supposed to be the power level for generalists (unlike Sandeep who is way over the threshhold). He's solid at a few things but not amazing at any one thing.  Best comparison is to Resser McMourning since they both trade an enemy model for one of theirs. 

I like Levi, I play him a lot. He's not Hamelin or the Viks though. 

Ah, I see - actually LIKE a scavenger then! That's kind of cool and I feel a bit dumb for not seeing it! So generally the plan is to make sure that the Waifs are a) in locations that gives Leve an option to attack across most of the board, and b ) protected, and then at the end of turn pop Leve out where he has the best chance to take out a model (say a 6-8 wound model?) without having to walk, burn a stone for the for his summoning trigger (if you need to) and turn it into an abom? Then let the rest of the crew take up the slack from there? I assume that means you're always taking Desolate Soul on him? I imagine the skill here is clever Waif placement/protection to make sure that the Leveticus has a good vector of attack for the start of each turn. I assume the card draw is coming from Aboms rather than his (0), since he'll want to be making a Waif each turn?

Assuming playing within Outcasts (i.e. no pariahs) what do you think of his new upgrades? Would you consider going with Pariah of Iron just for Terracotta Warriors?

[Mxbedlam]

2 hours ago, apes-ma said:

Ah, I see - actually LIKE a scavenger then! That's kind of cool and I feel a bit dumb for not seeing it! So generally the plan is to make sure that the Waifs are a) in locations that gives Leve an option to attack across most of the board, and b ) protected, and then at the end of turn pop Leve out where he has the best chance to take out a model (say a 6-8 wound model?) without having to walk, burn a stone for the for his summoning trigger (if you need to) and turn it into an abom? Then let the rest of the crew take up the slack from there? I assume that means you're always taking Desolate Soul on him? I imagine the skill here is clever Waif placement/protection to make sure that the Leveticus has a good vector of attack for the start of each turn. I assume the card draw is coming from Aboms rather than his (0), since he'll want to be making a Waif each turn?

Assuming playing within Outcasts (i.e. no pariahs) what do you think of his new upgrades? Would you consider going with Pariah of Iron just for Terracotta Warriors?

So yeah a lot of the skill is knowing when to bounce. Got a scheme runner in the backfield? Bounce levi in and make an abom with little repercussion because next turn he will be somewhere else. That being said you don't always have to do that. Ashes and Dust lets you either place 10" for an alpha or draw 2 cards if you need it. Most of the time you are drawing cards for Abom ping. I like using Howard or Talos for that since they only take 1 thanks to armor. I always take Deso Soul on him. 

As far as his Pariah upgrades, I've played him without and its not bad, but USUALLY Iron is the big one for TC warrior to protect your anchors and because the constructs tend to be the more aggressive options. Undead however has some fun things in Belles and Doxies allowing you to pull models to you and not have to waif place every turn. 

His new upgrades are situationally good but not amazing. I'll switch them with a TC if needed but I've never started them on him. My usual set up for him is Deso Souls, Pariah of Iron and Scout the Field. TC warrior can switch Scout and Pariah out on turn 1. 

[Davos]

16 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

As with a lot of masters, his problem is that he has unothrodox strenghs and people dont realize that if you dont play up to a certain potential the overall result feels kind of meh for those masters.

Levis huge strengh is that he doesnt care about risk in certain situations. I've started to focus him way more towards a "risky" playstyle and he turned out to be a lot more fun and be more effective. New levi needs to creat threat and soak ap and enemy models. 

I've found much the same - playing him riskier, throwing him up forward to start attacking things generally pays off.  You can *generally* kill a model, summon an abom all in one activation.  Which is a huge physiological hit to your opponent.  But you must be willing to lose at least 1 waif to do so.  Understand that it comes with a give and take.  

16 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

3 hours ago, apes-ma said:

Ah, I see - actually LIKE a scavenger then! That's kind of cool and I feel a bit dumb for not seeing it! So generally the plan is to make sure that the Waifs are a) in locations that gives Leve an option to attack across most of the board, and b ) protected, and then at the end of turn pop Leve out where he has the best chance to take out a model (say a 6-8 wound model?) without having to walk, burn a stone for the for his summoning trigger (if you need to) and turn it into an abom? Then let the rest of the crew take up the slack from there? I assume that means you're always taking Desolate Soul on him? I imagine the skill here is clever Waif placement/protection to make sure that the Leveticus has a good vector of attack for the start of each turn. I assume the card draw is coming from Aboms rather than his (0), since he'll want to be making a Waif each turn?

Assuming playing within Outcasts (i.e. no pariahs) what do you think of his new upgrades? Would you consider going with Pariah of Iron just for Terracotta Warriors?

If your playing him with a Hamelin playstyle, of course he's not going to be better then hamelin. Do things with Levi which only Levi can do. Such as tie up the enemy turn 1 and waste his resources and then explode and dont care about dying. 

I haven't tried the new upgrades a ton, but I've found them less then useful.  Iron, in my opinion is a must, since it opens up such a MASSIVE hiring pool (my favorites being Necropunks for Scheming, Terracota because obviously, and PEacekeeper cause only crap min 4 dmg is nice, backed by armor +2).

 

Positoning is key.  The goal is never to have to walk him more than once, ideally not at all, so you can get 2 focused shots off each activation.  Or you use his other (0) to sac and jump to a friendly construct a- total of 10in place and nuke whatever you can.

[I'm a Teapot!]

I played a lot of games where my master was a trademodel and I was fine with him dying after he did his job and pressured the opponent to a point where I was winning the game already. I think Leveticus fits this playstyle. Yes he can be immortal, but why does he have to? Trading his waifs and Levi for basicly 3 turns of a lot of enemy activations and ap is a good trade. The crew can score vp while levi is busy dying and soaking the enemy. And then in turn 3 or 4 he might die permanently but the game should be decided by then. 

[Mxbedlam]

Levi is the best master in the faction IMO for entourage as well. He has no problems being there while spending the rest of the game aggressively harrassing models. You just have to make sure you also have a model anchor (necropunks) to be within 6" 

[DXXXVIII]

Can necropunks anchror? DOesnt the anchor need to be 6ss?

[Mxbedlam]

3 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

Can necropunks anchror? DOesnt the anchor need to be 6ss?

THought necros were 6. My bad.

 

[Davos]

That being said, punks are great schemer models.  For deep pushed models, Ashes & Dust is always good.  I've been finding Midnight Stalker is decent, along with Peacekeeper or Strongarm Suit

[Mxbedlam]

1 hour ago, Davos said:

That being said, punks are great schemer models.  For deep pushed models, Ashes & Dust is always good.  I've been finding Midnight Stalker is decent, along with Peacekeeper or Strongarm Suit

Howard works as well if you don't get him killed to quickly

 

[Kaos]

1 hour ago, Mrbedlam said:

Levi is the best master in the faction IMO for entourage as well. He has no problems being there while spending the rest of the game aggressively harrassing models. You just have to make sure you also have a model anchor (necropunks) to be within 6" 

You can use the soulstones miner for that. Cost 6 and can unbury anywhere on the table, outside the deployment. Would be a nice behind the enemy lines model, who can provide ss for Leveticus.

 

[FunWithKnives]

 

2 hours ago, Davos said:

That being said, punks are great schemer models.  For deep pushed models, Ashes & Dust is always good.  I've been finding Midnight Stalker is decent, along with Peacekeeper or Strongarm Suit

Stalker is the second strongest outcast model atm

[Davos]

38 minutes ago, FunWithKnives said:

 

Stalker is the second strongest outcast model atm

That I don't agree with.  Like, its a good model, don't get me wrong.  But it really doesn't do a ton of damage and does drop really fast if attacked.  Its a paradox - if you want to kill something, you must go with him first, but then he'll get dropped.  And if he gets engaged, you're wasting valuable AP disengaging instead of doing things.  I've found his power is projecting/threatening/schemeing, not actually killing things.  

 

There are tons of "stronger" models than him - he's very situtaional, based on the schemes and strat, and opposition.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

8 minutes ago, Davos said:

I've found his power is projecting/threatening/schemeing, not actually killing things. 

being strong does not imply killing things in a game which is not focused on killing. as you rightly observed, he is a great schemer, almost impossible to stop without some serious effort (like double focus on your master).

[Mxbedlam]

Agreed. I will take Midnight stalker almost primarily as a schemer every time. Guaranteed 3 AP on a scheme model is amazing. 

[apes-ma]

4 hours ago, FunWithKnives said:

 

Stalker is the second strongest outcast model atm

What do you have as the strongest? Ashes and Dust?

[FunWithKnives]

58 minutes ago, apes-ma said:

What do you have as the strongest? Ashes and Dust?

Yeah, he is better than some masters

[Ajatros]

On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:37 PM, Davos said:

That I don't agree with.  Like, its a good model, don't get me wrong.  But it really doesn't do a ton of damage and does drop really fast if attacked.  Its a paradox - if you want to kill something, you must go with him first, but then he'll get dropped.  And if he gets engaged, you're wasting valuable AP disengaging instead of doing things.  I've found his power is projecting/threatening/schemeing, not actually killing things.  

 

There are tons of "stronger" models than him - he's very situtaional, based on the schemes and strat, and opposition.

These were my first thoughts also, because fluff-wise the guy is supposed to be this super scary jack the ripper -type, but his damage output and abilities are really not reflecting this well. He's just the perfect solo schemer, who does not care about being tied up and can dish out a moderate amount of hurt if needed. in GG2018, I feel that he is going to be very strong in Symbols of Authority and Ours, and can do a bunch of schemes really well.

[apes-ma]

8 minutes ago, Ajatros said:

These were my first thoughts also, because fluff-wise the guy is supposed to be this super scary jack the ripper -type, but his damage output and abilities are really not reflecting this well. He's just the perfect solo schemer, who does not care about being tied up and can dish out a moderate amount of hurt if needed. in GG2018, I feel that he is going to be very strong in Symbols of Authority and Ours, and can do a bunch of schemes really well.

He's also really good at murdering small to medium isolated models at the top of the turn - and he kind of stalks them too! Imagine the opponent has an isolated model - he can teleport over to it at the start of the turn (ideally with fast) and then he has 3 AP to do what he wants to them. Then he can put up his anticharge defense to make it hard to counter attack him on a charge. If there is nothing even in charge range the opponent is faced with either having to commit a fair amount of AP and positioning to take him down when his defenses are down, or just leave him to keep on scheming/hunting small models or whatever. Then, when his job is done (say he's already done what he needed to do) he can have a turn or two with some devastating charges. In testing I had a game where he had got my covert breakthrough markers down and well out of the way, and quickly repositioned for a charge into 3 models at the top of turn 4 which has him swinging at min 5. He died that turn, but he scored me 3VP and killed a model - not bad I thought!

[FunWithKnives]

I took stalker to 12 Levi games, he died twice. I always earn 2-4 vp with him, usually for LYM or CJ. He assassinated Asami once and my opponent surrendered so i guess he brought me 10 points that game . Apart from Levi he is a great choice for sisters band, and probably for Misaki (i have to test that).

[Ajatros]

I played with the stalker yesterday with Levi in Symbols of authority with covert BT in the pool. The stalker was definitely my MVP, scoring 5 points single-handedly (2 strat markers and 3 for covert). I played against Shenlong, who likes to ball up in the center, so I had plenty of room on the flanks to get into his side of the board unharrassed. The ability to ignore other models is just crazy good, because there's just nothing the opponent can do to stop you and having activation control means that you always have the . Next time I'll try to stab something with him to see how that goes.

 

On another note, what do you think of this super mobile Levi list:

• Leveticus + 5SS pool, Desolate soul, Pariah of Bone
• Waifs
• Lazarus, Oath keeper
• The midnight stalker
• Dead Doxy
• Kentauroi
• Abomination
• Freikorps engineer

That's 9 activations right out the box, five anchors and sooo much movement tricks. Abo and the engineer draw cards (the latter can also hammer armor on laz), the Doxy is pushing Lazarus around to autofire positions anchoring my center. Kentauroi is just a fantastic taxi, and does a lot of work in other areas as well. Stalker and Levi do their thing.

[Kaos]

Looks nice, I think I'm crutching a bit too much on a&d so a list without him always strikes me as strange. But lots of models and lots of beating power isn't something to scoff at. I find Lazarus not so good, since he will miss if he just autofire, maybe you want a bit more stopping power there.