Competitive Leveticus lists

[Davos]

I'm pretty sure waifs are both undead and constructs, since they can be used for either part of Levi's other (0) action, which lets him either sac and draw 2 cards or jump to a model, depending on its undead or construct characteristic.  So fearing Johan is legit.  Also, he's still a min 3 beater, thats 75% of a waifs wounds, which is still pretty scary

[Adran]

I think they are just undead, and not constructs. 

[crimzzen]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:16 AM, Kaos said:

Explain some choices here.

Johan for example, great to remove conditions for sure, but he works well with ms&u models. So in a crew not containing such models it looks like he will do less than what he's supposed to do. I saw someone posting a list with both Joss and Johan so he start to make more sense

And how do you exactly use Sue?

 

Sorry, little late getting back to the Party and plenty has been said already but:

Johanna - I don't generally take her for the condition removal (though it is nice, I once removed flicker from an over-extended jorogumo) but moreso that she's an inexpensive anchor that can deal out min damage 3.  I take her with oathkeeper and usually run her as the second line beater once crews clash at an objective point.  It's hard to beat the raw efficiency of her output for 6-7SS.  Granted she pays for it with her survivability, she usually doesn't last the turn once committed.  Sometimes I just keep her back as strictly an anchor and being 6SS she's about as cheap as you can do it.

 

Sue is control and beater for me.  The innate plus flip on attack lets me get around cover to hit and min damage 3 and 1/4 of the time min dmg 4 is very strong at 12".  I'll usually stick him with my more important models and put up the - aura to Ca attacks.  I frequently play against Reva, Nellie, and probably collodi soon enough so the Aura can be very important.  Those models can still force their casts through but it usually limits it to once instead of 3 times.  Hurt's always good, especially with how early I activate Sue (to put the aura up and maybe try to kill something before it activates, especially if I'm Ram heavy) and Return Fire makes attacking him a very risky proposition.  My opponents have started to look at ways of removing sue without attacking him, lately it's been early activating Hannah trying to bury him.  There really isn't a range beater like him that can put out as much damage as he can WHILE still providing so much support/control, at 8-9SS no less.  I haven't done it yet, but Autokilling huggy seems fun.

[crimzzen]

8 hours ago, Adran said:

I think they are just undead, and not constructs. 

They are undead.

[Kaos]

Probably conditions removals will be more important next year, when every arcanist crew will have a steamfitter giving something like a rail golem, ice golem or Langston a no severe damage condition. Lifting something like that can be quite important. I image a Langston charging into a clump of enemy models with no severe damage condition can be terribly devastating if not deal with quickly. Probably we could even see "to the earth return" upgrade on Levi more frequently so he can still put a reasonable amount of damage with his moderate damage value.

[Freman]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:43 AM, crimzzen said:

They are undead.

But what were they before Leveticus began operating on them?

[Mxbedlam]

On 11/10/2017 at 12:33 AM, Gnomezilla said:

Why not?  Not everyone needs to have a master level presence on the table.

So? They aren’t constructs. It’s not like reflecting a Kang buff aura back into a clump of undead.

Having your own model kill one of your waifs really sucks and he has enough ml range to reach it with a single obey unless you see it coming and get her further back

[Kaos]

Now they're resummonable but still...

I wouldn't even sac one of them to jump Leveticus trough Rebirth. 

[Davos]

3 hours ago, Kaos said:

 

I wouldn't even sac one of them to jump Leveticus trough Rebirth. 

In certain cases its worth it to do the jump and sac.  It's 10 inches (a little more technically since you place in base contact on the far side) free, which then hopefully is giving you t least 2 good quality attacks.  If you burn oathkeeper, you're fast, so you get a free focus (from channel), then focus 2nd AP, so you get 2 shots with focus, then a 4th just normal shot, at Sh 7 v Wp.  If you can kill something, or better yet kill +summon its worth it.  Not many people are mentally able to handle losing a model or 2 and having their opponent summon a model or two on turn 1, from a single activation.  If you have the cards and they extend small to medium sized stuff, its worth it.  

Sure, dropping the waif hurts, but the tempo swing is huge.  I did it against a Zorida crew, killed 2 things and gained to 2 aboms, so I netted 4 on activation control.  Levi took some damage but still survived.  The key is you go last with Levi when he's gonna jump, so next turn they HAVE to kill him with a single activation or he'll go, kill more shit, then bury

[Kaos]

My jump target is usually ashes and dust. Give me 2 more activations same turn I jump, one fast construct and he come back and the end of turn.

If things go wrong jumping to a waif can mean losing both of them of Leveticus get killed before being able to bury himself. 

Ashes is really Leveticus bff.

Also abominations look more sacrificable for jumping purposes, the only problem is they don't drop scraps to resummon them.

[Davos]

A&N is a great target, since you'll get all the extra activations, plus summoning aboms for card draw, AND murdering everything between him and Levi.  Its a fun (its brutal) combo to do.

[Mxbedlam]

Yeah for sure Ashes is the best jump target. Though sometimes I will jump to Aboms too after I've pinged them down to draw cards off of them OR if my opponent is going to attempt to score off of them. Its funny watching my opponent get frustrated when you deny them that "easy" dig graves by leaping onto an abom. 

[Davos]

6 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Its funny watching my opponent get frustrated when you deny them that "easy" dig graves by leaping onto an abom. 

That always is a fun one.  "Oh, that weak, easy kill you were gonna get for VP?  MINE!".  "Oh, and I just killed 2 of your models and summoned a new models as well.  Cheers!"

[MudgeBlack]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:54 PM, Freman said:

But what were they before Leveticus began operating on them?

Street rats.

[Kaos]

So has been on my mind for a while to try a sort of hard control / brick list with these:

Leveticus 

-Desolate soul

-Paria of Iron

Hollow waif x2 

Alyce 

-From Aether

Engineer 

Obsidian Statue 

Anna Lovelace 

fillers (scheme runner or another piece as seem fit, probably a condition removing Johan would be useful) 

 

The idea behind the list is to play this brick of hard denial (statue that can't be pushed, Alyce can't be charged and Anna deny placements) and shoot everything out of the table due to a combined Leveticus / Anna attack, with +1 damage to cast ignoring all reductions. Anna go first, Levi finish the work and summon abominations. 

Engineer can use Alyce scrap markers to draw cards and give +1 ARM to the statue, throwing a ARM +3 construct to break face.

Is a bit different than the usual Leveticus list, since you probably want all the pieces to stay together in a big ball of death. But the can efficiently lock down a large area of the board and eventually annhilate anything trying to get past them. 

 

 

 

[Mxbedlam]

8 hours ago, Kaos said:

So has been on my mind for a while to try a sort of hard control / brick list with these:

Leveticus 

-Desolate soul

-Paria of Iron

Hollow waif x2 

Alyce 

-From Aether

Engineer 

Obsidian Statue 

Anna Lovelace 

fillers (scheme runner or another piece as seem fit, probably a condition removing Johan would be useful) 

 

The idea behind the list is to play this brick of hard denial (statue that can't be pushed, Alyce can't be charged and Anna deny placements) and shoot everything out of the table due to a combined Leveticus / Anna attack, with +1 damage to cast ignoring all reductions. Anna go first, Levi finish the work and summon abominations. 

Engineer can use Alyce scrap markers to draw cards and give +1 ARM to the statue, throwing a ARM +3 construct to break face.

Is a bit different than the usual Leveticus list, since you probably want all the pieces to stay together in a big ball of death. But the can efficiently lock down a large area of the board and eventually annhilate anything trying to get past them. 

 

 

 

Sadly after giving Obsidian a try and conferring with others in my meta who've given it out, that low Df combined with the plethora of armor ignore out there makes it a hard to justify 9 points. Your opponent knows what you wanna do with it and will shut it down very quickly to make sure you don't have that +1 damage aura. 

[Kaos]

I'm sure I am the one missing something, but apart masters, who ignore armor? If a master is out there to get your models, you should be able to punish him. Which other non master models have such abilities? I didn't encounter many of them but could be meta related. In outcasts we got Levi and Marlene (that is, anyway, a very expensive model), in ressers there is Anna Lovelace, who else?

[Flinroz]

55 minutes ago, Kaos said:

I'm sure I am the one missing something, but apart masters, who ignore armor? If a master is out there to get your models, you should be able to punish him. Which other non master models have such abilities? I didn't encounter many of them but could be meta related. In outcasts we got Levi and Marlene (that is, anyway, a very expensive model), in ressers there is Anna Lovelace, who else?

Can't speak for other factions, but off the top of my head gremlins have Banjonistas, Lightning Bugs, Swine cursed.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

many spirits in ressers (onryo, goryo, shikome, datsue ba), taelor & strongarm (on suits), lone swordsman (on suits), joss if I am not mistaken, kang and eveyone in his aura, aionus (rarely sees play, but still a possibility), every single neverborn enforcer - just from top of my head. man, your local group must be really small.

[Kaos]

20 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

many spirits in ressers (onryo, goryo, shikome, datsue ba), taelor & strongarm (on suits), lone swordsman (on suits), joss if I am not mistaken, kang and eveyone in his aura, aionus (rarely sees play, but still a possibility), every single neverborn enforcer - just from top of my head. man, your local group must be really small.

Is not small but atm people don't have too large collections, so apart of standard crews and some fillers you don't see many different gameplays. 

I'm starting to understand about the concern of armor and on a less degree incorporeal being useless defend mechanics since they can be completely ignored. 

To be a bit out topic, I still think leveticus was overnerfed considering what's around right now. And the new upgrades didn't do anything to correct this, they made him a bit more interesting to play (especially untimely demise) but didn't address some of the main issues (no crew support, difficulty to get around covers). And it would actually be fine if other masters were affected in the same way but instead looks like they have no weak points while Leveticus was offering different angles of weakness while having one strong removal ability. People difficulty to play into Leveticus is probably more centered of the fact they didn't attack the right angle.

Well I'm waiting for January FAQs, hoping to see Leveticus restored to former glory or have the other things toned down as well. Is not ok to get your favourite master toned down when things like Reva and thunder Misaki are floating around (but I think thunder Misaki was a bit of a mistake, they just didn't realize how strong the upgrade really was).

[Mxbedlam]

On 11/26/2017 at 2:31 AM, Kaos said:

Is not small but atm people don't have too large collections, so apart of standard crews and some fillers you don't see many different gameplays. 

I'm starting to understand about the concern of armor and on a less degree incorporeal being useless defend mechanics since they can be completely ignored. 

To be a bit out topic, I still think leveticus was overnerfed considering what's around right now. And the new upgrades didn't do anything to correct this, they made him a bit more interesting to play (especially untimely demise) but didn't address some of the main issues (no crew support, difficulty to get around covers). And it would actually be fine if other masters were affected in the same way but instead looks like they have no weak points while Leveticus was offering different angles of weakness while having one strong removal ability. People difficulty to play into Leveticus is probably more centered of the fact they didn't attack the right angle.

Well I'm waiting for January FAQs, hoping to see Leveticus restored to former glory or have the other things toned down as well. Is not ok to get your favourite master toned down when things like Reva and thunder Misaki are floating around (but I think thunder Misaki was a bit of a mistake, they just didn't realize how strong the upgrade really was).

I don't think we will see any more Levi changes until 3rd edition happens

 

[apes-ma]

4 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

I don't think we will see any more Levi changes until 3rd edition happens

 

I'm dutifully painting up Leve because I love the models and the theme, and although I am looking forward to playing with him no matter how much I look at the cards I can't really work out what he's meant to be doing. So... roll on 3rd I guess?

[Adran]

On 25/11/2017 at 8:52 AM, Kaos said:

I'm sure I am the one missing something, but apart masters, who ignore armor? If a master is out there to get your models, you should be able to punish him. Which other non master models have such abilities? I didn't encounter many of them but could be meta related. In outcasts we got Levi and Marlene (that is, anyway, a very expensive model), in ressers there is Anna Lovelace, who else?

In outcast, non master specific I can think of

Bishop, Taelor, Ronin, Hans, dead outlaws, Aionius

[Nikodemus]

Strongarm ignores reductions on a suit. Wouldn't be surprised if there's one or two others by now.

It's not difficult to pack armour ignore into a crew if you want it.

[Gnomezilla]

On 11/25/2017 at 2:52 AM, Kaos said:

I'm sure I am the one missing something, but apart masters, who ignore armor? If a master is out there to get your models, you should be able to punish him. Which other non master models have such abilities? I didn't encounter many of them but could be meta related. In outcasts we got Levi and Marlene (that is, anyway, a very expensive model), in ressers there is Anna Lovelace, who else?

Guild: Anything non-master they want (via Thalarian queller), guardian and peacekeeper and pathfinder (suited), and lesser access to poison which ignores armor (thematic Guild McMourning). Before wave five, our armor ignore was tightly tied to the master on the table. We brought Sonnia into a heavily armored Arcanist match-up? Sucks to be her because she never hired those constructs!

Outcasts: Marlena ignores HtW and HtK, not armor, and I would argue that ignoring HtK is far more useful--it's one of the reasons Joss is the tool of choice for finishing off really pesky persistent models.