Pandora Tactica

[I'm a Teapot!]

I wonder if the woe is me pandora can fuktion as a small zone pressure unit with like 1 more mini to complement that task. So I can focus the rest of my crew towards specific schemes without relying to much on synergy and bubbled play.

Most of my pandora games I had to many models to provide support for pandora and ended up not having guys for certain jobs like killing their threat on a flank etc.

I thaught about Woe is me, depression, cry for me

to 0 for a mask summon 2 sorrows and then project emotions to trigger the newly summoned misery auras. Also depression gives those sorrows a wp atk to use afterwards. 

Which single model could be a good support for this? Iggy? Cause he can provides conditions to summon off? Who else could be good for that? 

Of course the rest of the crew doesnt have to be totally without any synergy, but focused on doing the job the schemepool asks you to do and only subbing in as pandora support if its really needed.

 

 

[Xaos]

As I read all the rules I find Pandora the Master that kills slowly but surely, but is there a way in her crew to have something that will simply kill that annoying thing I need dead ASAP?

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Xaos said:

As I read all the rules I find Pandora the Master that kills slowly but surely, but is there a way in her crew to have something that will simply kill that annoying thing I need dead ASAP?

Most things that you need to kill fast have a high damage profile, so Pandoras attacks can do a fair bit to them. 

You can hire any neverborn (non totem) model, and Merc models, so even for those things you need to kill fast that don't do lots of damage themselves, then yes there are plenty of things in the faction that can put out decent damage. Some common options include: Illuminated (especially if something else gives out brilliance) Stiched togethers, Teddy, mature Nephlim, Nekima.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

1 hour ago, Xaos said:

As I read all the rules I find Pandora the Master that kills slowly but surely, but is there a way in her crew to have something that will simply kill that annoying thing I need dead ASAP?

If that annoying thing has very low damage profile or no copy-able attack at all (Collodi, Molly) you can use that new upgrade which deals 2/3/4 (which often translates into 3/4/5 at minimum) irreducible damage.

[I'm a Teapot!]

4 hours ago, Xaos said:

As I read all the rules I find Pandora the Master that kills slowly but surely, but is there a way in her crew to have something that will simply kill that annoying thing I need dead ASAP?

Pandora can kill fast aswel. I recently played a game with woe is me pandora against a kaeris crew with joss in it.

While Joss is arguably one of the tankiest models in the game and one of the slowest I still lured him and a gamin towards me with lilithu in turn 1, pushed the gamin towards me again with the thorn and then summoned 2 sorrows next to him and killed it via incite, popping out the poltergeist. The sorrows and the poltergeist activated after my opponent was done with his crew and relocated to a non-wounded joss. Turn 2 I summoned another sorrow on joss, and used project emotions from the cry for me upgrade to give him double negatives to wp next to the poltergeist and 4 dmg by misery. Then I incited him for 4 damage, putting him on hard to kill and reactivate and incited the firestarter on a roof nearby. I forced Joss to activate and take 3 dmg from the sorrows next to him and die. Then I lured the firestarter into the sorrow bubble and just next to the polergeist and forced him to activate and gein slow cause he was also engaged to the thorn and his curse of autumn aura and on negatives to willpower by the poltergeist. he took 1 dmg from a sorrow next to him when activating and 4 dmg from misery and slow. He killed the poltergeist and 1 sorrow. Another sorrow activated and used the action from the depression upgrade on pandora targetting wp and did 3 damage from misery again and killed him aswell, summoning a new poltergeist. 

This side of the board was now cleared at the middle of turn 2. Basicly I didnt use pandoras atk to copy the dmg track a single time, and only summoned sorrows and incited. No other models of my crew actually attacked the enemy, only misery damage killed a joss, a firestarter and a gamin and my opponent discussed this with me afterwards: He didnt want to spend any of his 4 stones because I had so many wp targeting attacks in reserve they would have died anyways and preventing 1 damage each is just not worth it. 

I dont know many masters that can kill joss only with some lures and passive effects while the enemy is basicly hopeless because he cannot really react to it due to the massive controll pandora provides. 

 

[spikes]

@I'm a Teapot!  Sounds like a fun game for you (not your unfortunate opponent)! Yes, I'm thinking of using Summoning Dora like how I use Melee Dora, as a solo or small unit. Her ability to reliably summon within her own activation makes this viable. Other support models are a bit more challenging as they have difficulty keeping up with Pandora, but you can consider a Reporter since her actions are all against Wp and she can put out conditions. 

@Xaos You might have underestimated Pandora a bit. She kills faster than it appears, especially with Sorrows around. Incite and her attacks are against Wp, so they do ping Misery. Even a weak damage track on a chaff model of say 2 dmg min gets +1 for Pandora's Misery and +1 for each other Sorrow. That's a min damage of 4 if you have just one Sorrow around, pretty respectable output there. 

[santaclaws01]

On 11/6/2017 at 8:02 AM, Xaos said:

As I read all the rules I find Pandora the Master that kills slowly but surely, but is there a way in her crew to have something that will simply kill that annoying thing I need dead ASAP?

Neverborn has no shortage of killy models. Just off the top of my head there's; Nekima, Teddy, Mature Nephalim, Hooded Rider, Baby Kade, Mr. Graves, Wrath and Illuminated. And that's all in faction, if we go out of faction you can look at Bishop, who can get Crit Strike built in for +1 damage, and target Wp so that the opponent is taking +1 damage for each Misery model near them. Also there's the doppleganger to copy the attack of something within 8", and Pandora can always beat on a big model with their own damage track.

[I'm a Teapot!]

Just wanted to add something minor to summoning pandora in general: If you find yourself a 13of masks or ared joker you can keep it and summon a sorrow with the poltergeist, since he can copy pandies summon ability on -3Ca.

[le_sphinx]

On 06.11.2017 at 10:40 PM, I'm a Teapot! said:

Pandora can kill fast aswel. I recently played a game with woe is me pandora against a kaeris crew with joss in it.

Which models do you used to apply conditions to enemy models at this game?

I guess Pandora can do it by her own using "incite". However, it is good to use another (0) action from "depression" upgarde to give masks on all her casts.

 

 

Guys what about right suit at "incite's" trigger? I mean it is double masks on my card, but book says it should be mask+tome! Which is the latest and correct info?

[Mutter]

36 minutes ago, le_sphinx said:

Which models do you used to apply conditions to enemy models at this game?

Some suggestions are here:

 

[le_sphinx]

22 hours ago, Mutter said:

Some suggestions are here...

Thanks a lot mate, but I know that thread for some reason. Maybe because I posted some suggestions there as well?

I asked directly @I'm a Teapot! at this thread, because he posted his inspiring mini-mini battle report here. So I would like to know which particular models he used at that game against Arcanists.

[le_sphinx]

Guys there will be a big chance that I will face Leveticus for the first time tomorrow. What is the best strategy for Pandora against that outcast guy? On paper he seems to be very scary!

[EnternalVoid]

22 hours ago, le_sphinx said:

Guys there will be a big chance that I will face Leveticus for the first time tomorrow. What is the best strategy for Pandora against that outcast guy? On paper he seems to be very scary!

Pandora can throw a cramp in the old man if she can remove his bigger models early but can be vulnerable to to stuff in turn.  Leveticus likes to have at least 3 models that are 6+ ss, and Pandora loves these often as they are a nice concentration of power in the crew.  More so each one you kill possible removes an available Anchor as the Waif will need a different 6+ ss model to be near.  Likewise if Pandora can get to Levi and be within her 3" range he cannot use his range attack and has to move to use his 1" melee, which has a lower value than Pandora's Wp *a 6 vs 7, were his range is 7 vs 7*.  More so Incite can possible throw the old man's activations out of order.  Finally if you have Voices, if you can paralyze Levi before he can activate you really hurt his turn.  More so if you Incite Johan so he has to activate before Pandora so he cannot remove the Paralyze afterwards.  Likewise every heavy hitter that Pandora can paralyze removes his ability to dish out.  The one thing to keep in mind though is that Levi has Wp7 *so does Alyce if he takes her*, so he is not the easiest target and you might have to save your best card and use a SS to paralyze him.  At least as the attacker you can win that exchange on a tie.  If he brings Ashes and Dust, if Pandora has a chance kill the Dust Storm as she can likely kill it in a single attack *its damage spread is 3/4/6 plus 1 for misery*.  If it already Initiated Reformation it will have Armor +1 so it might take an Incite or second attack to finish it.

Some things to keep in mind and be on the look out for.  Pandora is not a fan of Abominations, and Levi or Alyce might have the upgrades to make more at range or off scrap.  The big thing is Abominations deny (0) within 2" of them and can force Pandora to take Df 10 duels at the end of their activations for 2 damage.  With her low Df it will not take much for this to start hurting her.  The fact that Levi or Alyce can have an upgrade to make one at range when they kill one of your models means that soft low Wd count models are not the best choice.  Also Pandora does not want to be caught out in the open by Levi and the old man does have ways to jump around *though might be at the cost of an undead model*.  You will likely want a Doppelganger and maybe Iggy to give your another Incite and the ability to cheat initiative to try and make sure you have the chance to get the first strike when you need it.

A large part of your plan will revolve around what they take to go along with Levi as their anchors, as that will be the meat and potatoes of their crew.  Which ones will be easier to tackle and which are better to wait for will vary.  One to keep in mind is Sue due to his ability to disrupt magic with his Men in Black (0) action.  He might well have to be an early target or at the very least force you to attack the models near him before he activates.

[HydroMog]

dont forget to take out the hallow waifs as well. having levi bounce around the table using waifs like some form of guerrilla tactics is annoying and contributes to his survivability. or even taking something that can target buried models to help deal with levi directly can do wonders.

speaking of which, is aionis(sp?) the only model nb can take that can target buried models?

[Le gob]

I played my first game with Pandora (paralyse) yesterday against Sandeep with 3 oxfordian mages.
I felt like there's no way Pandora could do anything against this crew, as they all have high WP with  and a lot of counterspell.

And Kundara's ability to give buning +1 when you take damage, that the Totem can copy did really hurt.

Banasuva killed my 2 sorrows with one blast turn 1.

I had to commit Pandora to paralyse Sandeep and Banasuva to keep the casualties low, but she was way to fragile and got killed pretty fast.

I ended up loosing 5-9 even though my opponent made a lot of mistakes.

Overall, it seems impossible to play casters targetting WP against Sandeep.

[I'm a Teapot!]

58 minutes ago, Le gob said:

I played my first game with Pandora (paralyse) yesterday against Sandeep with 3 oxfordian mages.
I felt like there's no way Pandora could do anything against this crew, as they all have high WP with  and a lot of counterspell.

And Kundara's ability to give buning +1 when you take damage, that the Totem can copy did really hurt.

Banasuva killed my 2 sorrows with one blast turn 1.

I had to commit Pandora to paralyse Sandeep and Banasuva to keep the casualties low, but she was way to fragile and got killed pretty fast.

I ended up loosing 5-9 even though my opponent made a lot of mistakes.

Overall, it seems impossible to play casters targetting WP against Sandeep.

I recently played summoning pandora against sandeep in a tournament. It was my first time playing vs sandeep and I discovered that arcane shield is basicly the best defense against pandora in the game. Still managed to win tho cause I took quick murder and eliminate and killed his shasvastya guard turn 1 and Sandeep Turn 3 cause of a red joker Poltergeist atk vs him =D. 

It feels like Sandeep's crew is one of the best counters to pandoras mechanics. 

Sorrows tho die easy vs everything and thats why I wouldn't hire them. Summoning them is perfectly fine cause they appear where you need them and when you need them. 

Yesterday I killed Parker, Aionus and Maddog in 1 Turn of Pandora 3 summoned Sorrows and the Emissary. 

[Le gob]

21 minutes ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

Yesterday I killed Parker, Aionus and Maddog in 1 Turn of Pandora 3 summoned Sorrows and the Emissary. 

How do you kill them turn 1 ? I still unfamiliar with Pandora's game mechanics.

[Shadowfane]

2 hours ago, Le gob said:

How do you kill them turn 1 ? I still unfamiliar with Pandora's game mechanics.

He said killed them in 1 turn, not in turn 1

[le_sphinx]

2 hours ago, Le gob said:

How do you kill them turn 1 ? I still unfamiliar with Pandora's game mechanics.

Let me guess, please

Emissary can copy “missery” aura by his Pandora conflix. Now we have 5 “missery” auras, 5 damage for opponent if he lose wp duel!! Also he gets “incite”, which is tough cast against wp. 

Probably Pandora had “depression” upgrade which gives all woes in her LoS a cast against wp. Sorrows can use it.

Pandora has “incite” which is (0) action against wp and it can be used twice thanks to trigger. Another actions she can spend are her melee cast (against wp) or my favorite “inflict” (pulse which force enemy models to pass wp duel).

Just imagine how many wp duels can produce 5 mentioned models! Only one failed duel can inflict 5 damage! Another thing here is Poltergeist, which is summoned when somebody dies from “missery”. He has short aura where enemy has negatives on wp duels!

 

Oh man Pandora is a weapon of mass destruction!

Last two weeks I played her versus Collodi, Reva, Colett with “woe is me” upgrade. In game against puppets she managed to kill two marionettes, Vasilisa and Collodi left only one wound. It was in the second turn. Resurrects lost two carine remnants, night terror and croligan in one turn either. In the third game I lost Pandora, but before she summoned two sorrows and Poltergeist. Even despite of my fatal error, opponent was smashed. So in my example all killed units are small, but anyway it’s just amazing to kill so many opponents activations in one turn! Of course in all these games was a set up of 2 sorrows and Poltergeist, which were summoned earlier.

My little brother said that he won’t play with me if I take Pandora against him

[Nikodemus]

13 minutes ago, le_sphinx said:

My little brother said that he won’t play with me if I take Pandora against him

Try to get him to play Pandora next time.

[I'm a Teapot!]

5 hours ago, le_sphinx said:

Let me guess, please

Emissary can copy “missery” aura by his Pandora conflix. Now we have 5 “missery” auras, 5 damage for opponent if he lose wp duel!! Also he gets “incite”, which is tough cast against wp. 

Probably Pandora had “depression” upgrade which gives all woes in her LoS a cast against wp. Sorrows can use it.

Pandora has “incite” which is (0) action against wp and it can be used twice thanks to trigger. Another actions she can spend are her melee cast (against wp) or my favorite “inflict” (pulse which force enemy models to pass wp duel).

Just imagine how many wp duels can produce 5 mentioned models! Only one failed duel can inflict 5 damage! Another thing here is Poltergeist, which is summoned when somebody dies from “missery”. He has short aura where enemy has negatives on wp duels!

 

Oh man Pandora is a weapon of mass destruction!

Last two weeks I played her versus Collodi, Reva, Colett with “woe is me” upgrade. In game against puppets she managed to kill two marionettes, Vasilisa and Collodi left only one wound. It was in the second turn. Resurrects lost two carine remnants, night terror and croligan in one turn either. In the third game I lost Pandora, but before she summoned two sorrows and Poltergeist. Even despite of my fatal error, opponent was smashed. So in my example all killed units are small, but anyway it’s just amazing to kill so many opponents activations in one turn! Of course in all these games was a set up of 2 sorrows and Poltergeist, which were summoned earlier.

My little brother said that he won’t play with me if I take Pandora against him

This is exactly what I experienced in the woe is me games. The sorrow summoning plays like an avalanche. You wanna kills small things to get the engine going and as soon as the poltergeist is out it just grows and grows and if the opponent doesnt kill all the sorrows, it just eats their crew. 

Btw the poltergeist can copy pandoras casts at ca4 and that is pretty decent with his (-)aura for wp duels. 

One game I had a spare red joker and summoned a sorrow with the poltergeist cause he copied the summoning action at -3ca.

 

[le_sphinx]

On 03.12.2017 at 3:26 AM, I'm a Teapot! said:

This is exactly what I experienced in the woe is me games. The sorrow summoning plays like an avalanche. You wanna kills small things to get the engine going and as soon as the poltergeist is out it just grows and grows and if the opponent doesnt kill all the sorrows, it just eats their crew. 

Btw the poltergeist can copy pandoras casts at ca4 and that is pretty decent with his (-)aura for wp duels. 

One game I had a spare red joker and summoned a sorrow with the poltergeist cause he copied the summoning action at -3ca.

Yeah! Really nice notice about Poltergeist!

Pandora can work almost independently from the rest of crew. She can do two things in one time by her own: summon and massacre! I just accompany her with Iggy for some protection via "martyr", another "incite" and sweet burning. As @I'm a Teapot! mentioned, opponent has two main ways to go. The first is to ignore summoned Sorrows, but they will oblitirate everything if he doesn't. The second is to try to kill them. However, he will just spend his activations on killing summoned models! Also, it is not easy for all crews to kill Sorrows, even despite their low Df and wound count. Thanks to "incorporeal" and "martyr" from Iggy and sometimes Pandy. 

I mentioned in previous post that I lost Pandora in one game. I was really surprised, but it didn't help opponent at all! He spent the second turn to do it and next turns he tried to do smth with Iggy, summoned Sorrows and Polergeist. Which means that at the same time around 40 SS of my crew were able to do everything that they want.

Also I didn't say that I was able to destroy Tara one day. I think Pandora is a real counter in games against that lady. Thanks to "mood swing" condition.

Pandora's "woe is me" build should be in top tier for sure. Creating new models and kill enemy at the same time.

However, what we should be afraid of? Same problems as usual? Blasts, Df duels, pulses? Which masters are serious counter to us?

[I'm a Teapot!]

19 minutes ago, le_sphinx said:

Yeah! Really nice notice about Poltergeist!

Pandora can work almost independently from the rest of crew. She can do two things in one time by her own: summon and massacre! I just accompany her with Iggy for some protection via "martyr", another "incite" and sweet burning. As @I'm a Teapot! mentioned, opponent has two main ways to go. The first is to ignore summoned Sorrows, but they will oblitirate everything if he doesn't. The second is to try to kill them. However, he will just spend his activations on killing summoned models! Also, it is not easy for all crews to kill Sorrows, even despite their low Df and wound count. Thanks to "incorporeal" and "martyr" from Iggy and sometimes Pandy. 

I mentioned in previous post that I lost Pandora in one game. I was really surprised, but it didn't help opponent at all! He spent the second turn to do it and next turns he tried to do smth with Iggy, summoned Sorrows and Polergeist. Which means that at the same time around 40 SS of my crew were able to do everything that they want.

Also I didn't say that I was able to destroy Tara one day. I think Pandora is a real counter in games against that lady. Thanks to "mood swing" condition.

Pandora's "woe is me" build should be in top tier for sure. Creating new models and kill enemy at the same time.

However, what we should be afraid of? Same problems as usual? Blasts, Df duels, pulses? Which masters are serious counter to us?

I've also had a lot of positive experience playing Aeslin in the woe is me list and Aeslin is really really good vs the void crew aswell.

[frostwolf428]

Morning everyone, I just had my first game with Pandora  and it was great!. I ran the box opens build and used the Schemes and Stone building on a budget list (Pandora, Candy Iggy, 2xsorrrows 2xInsidous Madness and  Poltergeist) it was vs. Kari with extraction...there were no survivors  I loved all of the overlapping auras and how the damage and effects start small oh 1 point of damage whatever...then it jumps to 3 or more with a  to WP duels and discard a card to just to cheat. You really can kill friendships with crews like this. 

So I was wondering what other models should I be looking at to round out this crew? I have Nekima. Barbaros and Lilitu are on order. I know the first suggestion is doppelganger and widow weaver but what else?

I'm hesitant about widow weaver, I feel she is a HUGE target and not that survivable

Also everyone is talking about the summons build for her and it sounds AWESOME! what are some models people would suggest for that crew? Any tips for running it? does and don't, scheme to take or avoid at all costs

Thanks a lot and don't tell the Arcanists I was here I'm kind of cheating on them with Neverborn right now 

[le_sphinx]

1 hour ago, frostwolf428 said:

So I was wondering what other models should I be looking at to round out this crew? I have Nekima. Barbaros and Lilitu are on order. I know the first suggestion is doppelganger and widow weaver but what else?

I'm hesitant about widow weaver, I feel she is a HUGE target and not that survivable

Personally I suggest to take Iggy (mentioned him earlier), Mr. Tannen (has a cast against Wp and fantastic aura where opponent has to discard a card before cheating) and maybe Mysterious Emissary (has a great Pandora conflux, can summon Chalengings, puts big dangerous terrain marker, etc.). 

All of models that you listed (including Doppleganger and Weaver) have a strong synergy with Pandora for sure. Widow needs some careful management, but just imagine a power of decreasing enemy's Wp ("web" markers) when your crew throws a lot of Wp duels

1 hour ago, frostwolf428 said:

Also everyone is talking about the summons build for her and it sounds AWESOME! what are some models people would suggest for that crew? Any tips for running it? does and don't, scheme to take or avoid at all costs

Couple posts earlier was mentioned that she is quite independent here. So you can take 1-2 models that can apply conditions and support her. For example, Iggy and Madness. Another part of crew can be focused on particular schemes and strategy.

In my noob opinion, "woe is me" Pandora can be good in all gg17 strategies for now. Before her weakness was a quaters control, but know she can summon Sorrows and kill the enemy with them (or at least tarpit the enemy).

"Marked for death" is fantastic scheme here, because it helps to apply unremovable condition. So you can summon 2-3 Sorrows from just one model wth "MfD" condition and kill it after.

Everything where you need to "kill! maim! burn!" is a good option to pick. Other schemes can depend on your and opponent crew.

Quote

Thanks a lot and don't tell the Arcanists I was here I'm kind of cheating on them with Neverborn right now

Only if you won't cheat on us with Arcanist