What about Ten Thunders erratas ?

[Adran]

On 20/10/2017 at 8:24 PM, MrDeathTrout said:

They do resolve at the same time, so you need to check general timing. Since they are both abilities you need to go to the steps.  Assuming huggie was the defender and Lynch was not the attacker Death Contract takes effect in step 2, then Rising Sun (on Lynch) takes effect in step 3 or 4 depending on if he's the first or second player.

PS I'm all for this getting fixed, but Raputina getting to use her Overpower trigger on a model she just killed should be fixed as well.  Think these both fall into the same category, though the rules that make them work are different.

 

I agree this is I think the only doesn't die ability that timing really doesn't work for. 

Rasputina overpowering onto a dead model I think is the intended effect. She was able to do it last edition as well as this edition, so its not like its an unexpected bonus that it happened. 

[Inquisitor Wall]

Following what others have said, I think upping the min damage to 2 and increasing the charge range on the high river monks would be great.

Archers should be 5 ss as it is a cheaper alternative to sniper who is simply better, and would make it an alternative to 10T brothers.

Yasonori could benefit from a shorter charge range 8 or 9.

I also think nimble on Ototo would be great, even if that meant losing flurry.

 

[Da Git]

Really for Yasunori, I don't think his range is the problem... and reducing his charge hurts him with his in-theme master, Asami.  This is Thunders... getting models where we want them is no problem whatsoever.

I'd love to see him become a bit more of a glass cannon.  By himself, while tough, he can be taken out, but combine him with Terracotta Warriors and now Charm Warders and the Smoke Grenades upgrade and he's super difficult.  Not to mention 10T probably has some of the strongest healing and Condition removal in the game with LR Monk, Sun, Chiaki, Yu or Shen (with LR upgrade), Yan, Wastrels, Obsidian Oni and others that I can't remember off the top of my head!

So basically, I'd like to see two things...

1. Stubborn disappears.  Yas is not a rider, and this would help differentiate him a bit.  There's no real reason for him to have it and would offer another avenue to attack him.  Stubborn + Smoke Grenades basically nullifies long range Wp attacks.  He already has Wp6, which is pretty good and easy ways to remove conditions.
2. Drop him to 10 wounds.  Df5, 10W, Armour 1 + all the synergies mentioned above still make him a hard nut to crack.  He's main defense is also just a good offense (can't hit him if your dead)!  It would also give the Yas player more thought on how to commit him... Is it worth the trade?

I don't think these would break him at all...

At the very least #No_Stubborn_Yas!

[Tokapondora]

The issue people seem to have with him is that he swoops in and deletes a model or two before dying himself, while making it hard to position against that swoop because he can get everywhere. Lowering his defenses wouldn't stop people complaining in the slightest. Now admittedly, I genuinely think he is fine. Yeah, on the stronger end of the TT spectrum, but still well within the acceptable model range.

He's fast and makes a lot of attacks, but folds against Armor, inco, high Df, nasty triggers and soulstones, leaving his target options fairly limited. This may just be my meta talking but you can't send Yass down the rabbit hole willy nilly and expect him to take anything of particular significance down. You'll get twoish midrange units, generally totaling Yasu's cost, after which the opposing crew will make sure to delete Yasu. If you play him more conservatively he can generally harass some more models to death over the course of the game, but that's not what people are complaining about and imo a fairly acceptable role to take. Most of the complaints I've had seem to be centered around him introducing a new playstyle people aren't quite used to in TT and once they've gotten familiar with it it's no more damaging than a well utilized Howard or Nekima. 

[Jinn]

I think The Storm upgrade on Misaki needs a nerf. It seems nearly unstoppable for your opponent in my opinion.

Overall for Misaki, I think increasing the min damage on Bisento to 3 and reducing the range of the blasts from the storm to somewhere between 4" to 6", down from 12", would be a good idea.

I know it's early for a nerf, and it should probably be left to see if it warrants a midyear emergency errata, but I think it is simply way too strong as it stands.

[Fetid Strumpet]

It isn't Yasunori solely. It's the fact that he is significantly over the power curve (and yes so have other factions) but that in addition to that he also has too much support that just makes him too much. 

Take away all the free pushes and positioning that TT have everywhere, and the free focus and the terra-cotta buffs, and his 0 actions allowing deck stacking and even more extra AP, and the fact that he often gets 4 to 5 attacks, trivially, and it just creates for too much. Lately it has felt like Yas is THE faction, which is an issue.

If I were going to suggest changes it would be to just take away the multiple attack triggers and just let him have the two actions every model gets plus a way to make 1 more attack, whether it was melee expert, or something like the dead rider that used his 0 with some nominal cost to get the extra AP, and remove flying. 

[Pyrflamme]

The Storm isn't that bad, in my estimation. The trigger isn't baked in unless Misaki ditches all her soulstones either by her new upgrade or naturally, and if you do that, you may gain a heal and + to Df flips, but you lose out on a major source of defenses in damage reduction not only for her, but also for any henchmen you may have. We do have access to healing in LRM, but if the opponent puts a power piece into the henchman and kills them, healing doesn't mean much.  It also means she no longer has the Stalk/Yu combo available, which diminishes her single-target killing power somewhat and helps preserve her hand. Granted, she still has Recalled Training, but that just adds more on the Training turn, which is never sniffed at - and she gets it on other turns. Also the LOS restriction gets a lot more potent if you're playing with terrain that's =>Ht 3.

 

I've been more on an Outcast kick recently so Yasunori has faded, but he's never felt overwhelming to me, rather I think other stuff in his price range needs to come down. Killjoy isn't quite worth 13SS, and I've been painting up the Hooded Rider recently, wondering how much he's really worth 12. With Tara, I can pretty reliably delete something t1 with a properly executed NB bomb (even with a stripped hand, 7 vs effective 3-4 works out most all of the time), as 2/5/7 damage track can really cause problems even for armor or H2W if you flip a string of moderates. Yasu has volume but as mentioned, armor can give him fits.

[Tokapondora]

The Storm is way too early to make any judgement calls over yet. It does something new and shiny so people'll have adjust to, which tends to immediately get people demanding nerfs. I'm not saying don't touch it, but if some weeks in you already start the background noise of "Nerf Nao" it's simply gonna echo through these forums as people look to. From what I've seen it doesn't seem more oppressive than Sonnia or Wong's blasta palooza, especially with their extra , only with your master in enemy lines instead of ~12", but then again I've only seen it four times and two of those matches was me playing her. 

I'm kind of afraid this new errata everything mindset is going to set in and the forums are going to morph from "Here's how you adjust" to "This is definitely too strong". 4 out of 5 times, if someone alphas Yass into my arms I can let him take one unit after which my crew takes him out. Giving him even just Melee Expert would be a huge blow to him, as a 12 SS unit with a 3/4/5 track. And if you want to top that off by removing flying all you've done is make sure that model will never see play again. I honestly feel most complaints stem from an "I don't like it" place rather than Yass actually being too strong. There's plenty of models I find a hassle, Yass included, but they're in no way something you can't play around. He's not an auto take, he doesn't render models redundant or completely useless, doesn't dominate tournaments, and what you lose to him is ultimately a choice you make depending on your positioning.

[hydranixx]

There's as many opinions on how Yasunori could be adjusted as there are opponents of Ten Thunders. He's the Thunder's version of the Riders, sharing their stat line, cost and their Stubborn ability. However, unlike them he doesn't take 4 turns to be worth his price. He's worth 12ss from turn 1, so he outshines all of them. 

If anything needs changing, 2 fewer Wounds and removing Stubborn seems fair to me.

[anencephalous]

I am happy for Yas to be nerfed if it is part of an overall reduction in power across the games heaviest hitters.

I have had to deal with reactivating Howard Langston for years now, who puts out way, way more damage than Yas ever can. Higher ML, more base damage, three guaranteed attacks a round plus a fourth ap to get him where he needs to be. Even excluding the execute trigger he is a nightmare. The best I can get out of Yas in a perfect storm is 6 attacks min damage 3. I have carried 7 attacks from Howard in a single round.

I have also had Lilith place my key models next to Nekima for years, and there is nothing fun and sportsmanlike about that.

I have had killjoy unbury late in the round and have him immediately murder my leader (again, 3 guaranteed attacks at 4 min damage, maybe more with a good hand).

None of our Ressers have got Archie off the plastic pile yet, but I am sure when I do I will have my key models Belle lured to their death in great abundance.

There is nothing about Yas that stands out to me as distinctly different to any of the above. His mobility is better, but that really doesn’t matter so much in TT anyhow. Izamu always gets where he needs to go in TT despite his low walk, and is nearly as impactful. Yas's damage output is good, but conditional (if you miss the first two attacks, that can be the only two attacks you get).

Misaki Storm, on the other hand, that does seem to be out of whack. I played it once and I won't play it again until it is fixed. Like Vik bomb only worse, if you draw the correct cards, your opponent doesn’t get to play the game, and that is no fun for anyone.

I agree that Archers and Ototo need some love. I think Archers would be too cheap at 5, but 6 with a few small buffs, and they would be a legit choice. Ototo would be fine with just the addition of a single ram to his base ML attack. Make him a serious beater, with Guild level damage when below half. If he needed another tweak, his WP could be raised to adult levels.