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Follow Their Footsteps - Chi earned?


Paddywhack

Question

Follow Their Footsteps:

  • The Path They Traveled: Whenever the opponent gains 1 or more VP, this model gains Chi +1.

Question: At the end of a turn, if you opponent scores say Claim Jump, Leave Your Mark, and Interference, do you gain 1 Chi or 3 Chi?

There has been discussion for both versions and I want to see if I am shortchanging myself. Right now I say 1 Chi as end of turn does not have a designated order to score VP, unlike End of Game where it lists it out fully.

End Phase for the turn says:  Earn Victory Points - Crews will earn VP for Strategies and Schemes (see pg. 81) that take effect at the end of each Turn during this step.

  • To me this is an 'all at once' occurrence for any VP earned, so only 1 Chi. Its one Step and all VP is earned at once.   Page 81 is just the lists of strats and schemes. 

End of Game says:

1.Models with effects that occur at the end of the game happen now.
2. Players calculate VP earned for the Encounter’s Strategy.
3. Players show their opponent any unrevealed Schemes (they do not count as revealed for bonus VP if shown at this time).
4. Players calculate VP earned for one chosen Scheme and add them to the Crew’s total VP.
5. Players remove any Scheme markers that they chose to use to Score VP with the Scheme in Step 4.
6. Players calculate VP earned from the remaining Scheme and add them to the Crew’s total VP.

That is obviously much more detailed and would give you 3 Chi as it clearly marks out how you score each Strat and scheme one-by-one. However, there is nothing saying this is the order of operations at the end of each turn. 

Any thoughts? 

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I direct everyone to the last sentence of Asami's Feigned Weakness upgrade. 

 

Quote

Note, that VP earned at the end of a turn are earned by both Crews simultaneously

 Which is a very good thing because could anyone imagine Asami getting up to 3 free summons at the end of a turn, each one being able to cost 1ss more than the last.

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4 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

OK, but why? Is there something to back that up, or just a gut feeling based on the End of Game sequence? I would love to be wrong, but I need something to in case I'm questioned. 

Please name things in the game that is done simultaneously, instead of as a sequence of individual pieces in an order.

As far as I know, anything where it is done simultaneously says so explicitly.  Even stoning for cards, where it shouldn't matter, has an order.

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

I am under the impression that you score them one at a time so the ability would kick in three times.

OK, but why? Is there something to back that up, or just a gut feeling based on the End of Game sequence? I would love to be wrong, but I need something to in case I'm questioned. 

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11 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

I direct everyone to the last sentence of Asami's Feigned Weakness upgrade. 

Note, that VP earned at the end of a turn are earned by both Crews simultaneously

 Which is a very good thing because could anyone imagine Asami getting up to 3 free summons at the end of a turn, each one being able to cost 1ss more than the last.

That does seem to support my interpretation. And yes, Asami getting 3 free summons would be awful.....:mellow:

I need to look at the rest of the wording for that upgrade when I get home. Does it also use the word 'gain' or score by any chance?

12 hours ago, solkan said:

Please name things in the game that is done simultaneously, instead of as a sequence of individual pieces in an order.

As far as I know, anything where it is done simultaneously says so explicitly.  Even stoning for cards, where it shouldn't matter, has an order.

But that also shows that they are very good at putting specific orders for things when needed. They did not for end of turn. So it comes down to the interpretation or intent of 'gains one or more chi." If both players score at the end of the turn simultaneously, it sounds like you determine how many you can earn and then earn them all in one lump sum -  for +1Chi.

 

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12 minutes ago, solkan said:

Is it appropriate to send painted voodoo doll models to Wyrd because they put a FAQ in parentheses on an upgrade card?  :mellow:

 

Yes!  :lol: Though you should send unpainted ones and they have to paint them as punishment. 

I don't think I would have ever found that on my own. The main part of Yan Lo's upgrade is really the other part - swapping upgrades before activation. The extra Chi is just a little something they threw in I think. 

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8 hours ago, solkan said:

Is it appropriate to send painted voodoo doll models to Wyrd because they put a FAQ in parentheses on an upgrade card?  :mellow:

 

Is it really an faq when that upgrade the was the first time scoring order for end of the turn actually mattered? And it's not like this is the first time clarifying text has been put in the text of an Action or ability.

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1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Is it really an faq when that upgrade the was the first time scoring order for end of the turn actually mattered? And it's not like this is the first time clarifying text has been put in the text of an Action or ability.

Replace the words "FAQ" with "rules statement that should have been either in the errata or FAQ".

Since there are now at least two separate effects which rely on that rule, and only one of them had the parenthetical note.

 

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3 minutes ago, Shafaar said:

so, where are we here? Footsteps said "whenever..." so it differs from Feigned Weakness, so we score Chi BEFORE the end of the turn, in the moment when opponent declares VP?

If you score VP at the end of the turn you do it at the same time. If you are scoring VP some other way,, then when you score the VP you gain the chi. Likewise with Feigned weakness if when your opponent scores 1 or more VP and they have more VP than you then you get to summon. this might eb at the end of the turn (when you all score simultaniously) or during the turn (Eliminate the leadership for example)

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Just now, Adran said:

If you score VP at the end of the turn you do it at the same time. If you are scoring VP some other way,, then when you score the VP you gain the chi. Likewise with Feigned weakness if when your opponent scores 1 or more VP and they have more VP than you then you get to summon. this might eb at the end of the turn (when you all score simultaniously) or during the turn (Eliminate the leadership for example)

thanks, clear enough ;)

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