Errata Hopes and Dreams!

[Da Git]

Well see as every other faction has one, it's about time the Ressers jump on board!

First off, I'd like to see every model gain 10 for all stats (except wounds, which are 20+), ItW, HtK and min 10 damage!

Seriously... (maybe!)

I'd love to see the Hanged become unsummonable, dropped to 8ss and given walk 5.  These guys are never hired and as summons are positively brutal.  They completely change the game and there's very little the opponent can do with Chain Activations, meaning they're pretty much forced to take Condition removal against Ressers if they need healing to make the master/crew function as intended (I'm looking at you Titania/Ironsides/McMourning/Asami/Guild with Effigy/anything with Eat Your Fill/etc).  For this reason, I'd actually like them to be dropped to 7ss, but Glimpse the Inevitable have the clause: At the start of this model's activation, it may discard 2 cards to end this Condition.

So basically, they're much cheaper but nowhere near as broken and game-changing and hopefully, they'd actually start being hired.

Kirai could probably also stand a cuddle, no idea what though.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I think a fundamental question has to be answered before looking at nerfs. What is the expected baseline supposed to be? Which masters in the game from each faction can you point to and say they are properly balanced and not negative play experiences and all masters should be closer to them.

I agree Kirai is too powerful, but if we accept masters like Hamlin and Sandeep as the base line then Kirai is about right. And nerfing  her without nerfing them doesn't seem like the correct step.

Better to look at masters that don't see a lot of competitive play and fix the deficiencies of their mechanics. My perennial favorite, Seamus did get a buff with the latest round of stuff, but I'd still argue for a variety of reasons that he still really isn't that much of a competitive choice because of several limiting mechanics that were rightly added when he was created but that the game has moved beyond and seem to me to be unfairly limiting him. However even with that opinion I feel that some time needs to go by before further tweaking any masters because it will take some time to shake out what the new upgrades did to the whole baseline.

[Thulis]

What would you cuddle with Kirai? Just saying she should is not constructive. 

Also, if ressers come up, why wouldn't you take condition removal? You have kirai with spirits adding conditions both poison and adversary, you have the hanged, half the faction hands out poison, and now there is a model that hands out burning. I'm pretty sure that if my opponent declares ressers, I'll need at least one model for condition removal. Then you have Molly that summons in spirits or horrors both who either deal poison on some situations or adversary again. Then there's Nicodemus who can hand out slow on enemies or fast on allies, why not remove either situationally? McMourning is all about poison, if you remove 6 poison on what will probably be expunged, that seems smart. 

Actually I pretty much assume devoting 5 or 6 ss to a model that can remove conditions is very smart, either Johan or Chiaki or if I'm  running shenlong, low river upgrade to heal and remove conditions. 

If I were to pick something to tone down on kirai it would be to remove min damage 3 on the upgrade and add some flavorful triggers instead.

[Fetid Strumpet]

She has flavorful triggers. I would certainly get rid of in 3 and in fact drop it to a 1/2/3 with triggers that put the conditions out. I'd also revise her summoning so she wasn't summoning out of whole cloth like she does now. She shouldn't be able to hire summoning batteries. She should just summon spirits from corpse markers.

[Kinginyello]

Not sure if she needs it, she is the strongest of the rezzer masters but not so much stronger to invalidate the rest like gremlins or outcasts. That said if u wanted to tweek her anyways:

To nerf kirai, nerf ikiryo. Either allow ikiryo to be summoned once per turn, have a increasing cost per ikiryo summon or something like that.

I personly feel kirai is okay as a master, ikiryo is the strong one in their relationship.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

that's funny, but an analogous thread in outcast section is full of absolutely ridiculous demands and complaints like "Johan needs to have Walk 5", "A&D is too expensive for what it does" or "bump Levi's damage track up, he's not competitive anymore". it's good to know that Resser players are able to see the beam in their own eyes...

jokes aside, I can't recall when I have heard any complaints about Kirai for the last time. wave 5 masters and Hamelin overshadowed her.

[Tales]

I feel a big part of that is our master suite is reasonably well balanced. Nico, Molly, Kirai, Reva, and Mcm are all super solid picks. Seamus is probably good now?(I think he is), and new Yan Lo looks quite good. Tara got a noticeable buff, but I still feel she's better in outcasts. As for actual changes I'd make? I probably agree with upping the cost of summoning a bit. I'd be interested in seeing what summoning would be like if the TN was 1 higher for all the big summoners.

[emiba]

While I'm not against increasing the TN for summoning, I'm interested to hear what people would do about the Hanged. Leave it requiring a Red Joker to summon or lower it's cost by 1? Something else?

[Thulis]

I think making something along the lines of "when this model is summoned, sacrifice all other Hanged you control in play". That way you can hire two but summoning it removed the other.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The problem with the hanged is that it is garbage for its cost.

It's not all that fast, doesn't have a good 0 action, doesn't really sustain it's theoretical purpose of making Terror better, doesn't have the sustained dmg output of any other model comparable in cost, (yes this is true you get better or equal dmg output from a attack 6 min dmg 3 model), and they are very fragile for a model of their cost.

However it has one attack basically no one likes to be hit with, that in one hit can do pretty massive dmg without needing to invest a card in dmg, and it pits a condition on models that they either don't care about, or cripples them with little to no middle ground. That perception of the attack, especially if you hit a master with it makes them universally despised even if they are pretty awful for cost, and their cost is as high as it is because of that attack.

That's why they are such powerful summons. You rarely get many turns out of a summoned model, so you generally only expect 1 attack to land when using them, and really that's all a hanged is good for. One attack that connects on a high value target. Get rid of all the weaknesses for a 9 stone model, get all of the benefits, and do it for a stone, a card, an action and a resource? Yes please.

My personal opinion is Hanged should get a rework. Although to be fair I think the terror rules should also get a rework and just work like irresistible did last edition. Every time an enemy targets a model with terror take the test, if you fail you just lose that action and are free to try again.

If I were redesigning the Hanged for the current enviroment, I'd get rid of the attack everyone hates, and not replace it with anything. I'd then rework the from of the card so all models in LoS lose any immunities to terror even those gained from passing a terror check, and all models in some range of aura, maybe 8" lose immunity to paralyze. I'd give it a 0 action if some sort, possibly movement based. It wouldn't be a damage dealer but it would be a good support piece for terror, or preventing paralyze immunities. And finally I'd make it an Enforcer so it couldn't be summoned.

[Champignon]

8 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

The problem with the hanged is that it is garbage for its cost.

It's not all that fast, doesn't have a good 0 action, doesn't really sustain it's theoretical purpose of making Terror better, doesn't have the sustained dmg output of any other model comparable in cost, (yes this is true you get better or equal dmg output from a attack 6 min dmg 3 model), and they are very fragile for a model of their cost.

However it has one attack basically no one likes to be hit with, that in one hit can do pretty massive dmg without needing to invest a card in dmg, and it pits a condition on models that they either don't care about, or cripples them with little to no middle ground. That perception of the attack, especially if you hit a master with it makes them universally despised even if they are pretty awful for cost, and their cost is as high as it is because of that attack.

That's why they are such powerful summons. You rarely get many turns out of a summoned model, so you generally only expect 1 attack to land when using them, and really that's all a hanged is good for. One attack that connects on a high value target. Get rid of all the weaknesses for a 9 stone model, get all of the benefits, and do it for a stone, a card, an action and a resource? Yes please.

My personal opinion is Hanged should get a rework. Although to be fair I think the terror rules should also get a rework and just work like irresistible did last edition. Every time an enemy targets a model with terror take the test, if you fail you just lose that action and are free to try again.

If I were redesigning the Hanged for the current enviroment, I'd get rid of the attack everyone hates, and not replace it with anything. I'd then rework the from of the card so all models in LoS lose any immunities to terror even those gained from passing a terror check, and all models in some range of aura, maybe 8" lose immunity to paralyze. I'd give it a 0 action if some sort, possibly movement based. It wouldn't be a damage dealer but it would be a good support piece for terror, or preventing paralyze immunities. And finally I'd make it an Enforcer so it couldn't be summoned.

I can mistake, but this make him completely useless. Especially the enforcer change. This support unit you talk about should be 5-6 stone summonable model.

 

Frankly speaking, resseres now are the most balanced fraction (not Seamus) from my point of view, don't understand this fear of summon at all. In our meta other players cope really well with it and summon can scare only new players for 1-3 times. Than you learn how to deal with it

[mojopin]

whispers is a very powerful attack, but dont forget you needed:

1 master AP + 13 card in hand + 1ss if 13 is not crows+ 1corpse (for nico) + 1hanged succesful attack AP against wp which will propably will be more difficult to hit

If you dont chain activate it most of times youll get a 3wd 4df model without HtW that will probably die to ANY charge or two shots. Think about the resources invested and the resources your opponet will need to eliminate him. And when hitting a non fresh, armoured or ss preventer model damage wont be that amazing most of times. Ok, its good but in my opinion its not that good.

From the top of my head... with a 13 in hand a nurse will most of times render useless any master and many factions can break havoc with a 13, a ss and 1 decisive AP, dont know... a howard with a couple high rams, a viktoria whirlwind....

[Da Git]

9 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

The problem with the hanged is that it is garbage for its cost.

It's not all that fast, doesn't have a good 0 action, doesn't really sustain it's theoretical purpose of making Terror better, doesn't have the sustained dmg output of any other model comparable in cost, (yes this is true you get better or equal dmg output from a attack 6 min dmg 3 model), and they are very fragile for a model of their cost.

However it has one attack basically no one likes to be hit with, that in one hit can do pretty massive dmg without needing to invest a card in dmg, and it pits a condition on models that they either don't care about, or cripples them with little to no middle ground. That perception of the attack, especially if you hit a master with it makes them universally despised even if they are pretty awful for cost, and their cost is as high as it is because of that attack.

That's why they are such powerful summons. You rarely get many turns out of a summoned model, so you generally only expect 1 attack to land when using them, and really that's all a hanged is good for. One attack that connects on a high value target. Get rid of all the weaknesses for a 9 stone model, get all of the benefits, and do it for a stone, a card, an action and a resource? Yes please.

My personal opinion is Hanged should get a rework. Although to be fair I think the terror rules should also get a rework and just work like irresistible did last edition. Every time an enemy targets a model with terror take the test, if you fail you just lose that action and are free to try again.

If I were redesigning the Hanged for the current enviroment, I'd get rid of the attack everyone hates, and not replace it with anything. I'd then rework the from of the card so all models in LoS lose any immunities to terror even those gained from passing a terror check, and all models in some range of aura, maybe 8" lose immunity to paralyze. I'd give it a 0 action if some sort, possibly movement based. It wouldn't be a damage dealer but it would be a good support piece for terror, or preventing paralyze immunities. And finally I'd make it an Enforcer so it couldn't be summoned.

I completely agree with a lot of Fetid's points.  It's horrible as a hire, but as a summon, the threat of a hanged pretty much forces you to take some form of condition removal.  There are several models that rely on healing to function.  This is particularly noticeable with masters like Titania, Viks, Schill, new Risk & Reward Misaki, McMourning, Lady J (with effigy), etc.  Ca6 is reasonably likely to get through making the opponent save high cards for it (unless the aforementioned condition removal is available).  All of the other potential summons don't have nearly the swing-y nature that the Hanged do.  And if they're not going to be effective, then there are lots of alternatives that can be summoned.

Just changing it to an enforcer would be an amazing start, although as mentioned, it would need a significant boost/points decrease to justify that.  My other big wish is for an option to remove Glimpse the Inevitable when the model activates at a cost of two cards.

[Da Git]

4 minutes ago, mojopin said:

whispers is a very powerful attack, but dont forget you needed:

1 master AP + 13 card in hand + 1ss if 13 is not crows+ 1corpse (for nico) + 1hanged succesful attack AP against wp which will propably will be more difficult to hit

If you dont chain activate it most of times youll get a 3wd 4df model without HtW that will probably die to ANY charge or two shots. Think about the resources invested and the resources your opponet will need to eliminate him. And when hitting a non fresh, armoured or ss preventer model damage wont be that amazing most of times. Ok, its good but in my opinion its not that good.

From the top of my head... with a 13 in hand a nurse will most of times render useless any master and many factions can break havoc with a 13, a ss and 1 decisive AP, dont know... a howard with a couple high rams, a viktoria whirlwind....

Those requirements don't look so bad when you add in that Kirai & Nico both give + flips to attack fairly easily (super easily in Nico's case), the 13/ss isn't too difficult either between drawing, ss for cards, plus Ressers have some amazing card draw in Phillip and Nico's Undertaker upgrade.

It's rare I (or my opponent) hasn't had the ability to summon Hanged turn 1, turn 2 at the latest (which is when Hanged do their most damage, targeting one or two key pieces), then after that they revert to summoning Punk Zombies/Shikome.  Also all three summoners that can summon hanged (Nico/Kirai/Molly) all have ways chain activate into the Hanged.

Those other models you mentioned, don't appear within striking distance with little you can do to stop it.  It's really the summoning that make Hanged too good.  But as said, they're not good hires...

[Fetid Strumpet]

You mistake it. It isn't fear, it's exasperation that at least to me Malifaux seems to be devolving into a game of summoning. How every suggested change or addition to a model is, "wouldn't it be great if master/model/slash upgrade let X summon Y?" 

And I especially dislike that many of the careful balancing mechanisms that were put in to limit summoning seems to be continually eroding making it trivial to do so.

Look at all the comments and concerns about how we need to limit activation control and punish summoners in the GG 2018 beta testing, and I feel it's mostly due to the massive increase in summoners and the scaling back of the restrictions that originally helped keep summoning mostly in check.

In regards to your assertion that the Hanged would be a 5ss model with my suggested alterations, go ahead and attempt to sell removing terror immunity through a public beta. The Hanged and the Carrion Effigy were over held back by such because the sentiment was such that removing immunity, especially to that granted by passing a horror check already, and especially in anything but a short range was way too good for anything but an expensive model.

[Kinginyello]

13 minutes ago, Da Git said:

Those requirements don't look so bad when you add in that Kirai & Nico both give + flips to attack fairly easily (super easily in Nico's case), the 13/ss isn't too difficult either between drawing, ss for cards, plus Ressers have some amazing card draw in Phillip and Nico's Undertaker upgrade.

It's rare I (or my opponent) hasn't had the ability to summon Hanged turn 1, turn 2 at the latest (which is when Hanged do their most damage, targeting one or two key pieces), then after that they revert to summoning Punk Zombies/Shikome.  Also all three summoners that can summon hanged (Nico/Kirai/Molly) all have ways chain activate into the Hanged.

Those other models you mentioned, don't appear within striking distance with little you can do to stop it.  It's really the summoning that make Hanged too good.  But as said, they're not good hires...

Nico + flip in aura is only ml attacks unless you bring necrotic king which is 2 ss, a 1 ap to activate, and a 9 to get off. Isnt trivial. 

[Da Git]

9 minutes ago, Kinginyello said:

Nico + flip in aura is only ml attacks unless you bring necrotic king which is 2 ss, a 1 ap to activate, and a 9 to get off. Isnt trivial. 

I don't play Nico, so my mistake there. 

I was mostly talking from a Kirai perspective though and adversary isn't that hard get. It's also triggers Malevolence for her too. 

The point is though that it's just so swingy. All you really need is summon one and an activation and its job is done. 

This also came up in the general Rider's topic, but I'd love to see Dead Rider get some lovin'! 

[Fetid Strumpet]

If they could hang back and remove horror immunity in LoS, or possibly just a really big aura and tossed out low or more likely no dmg attacks which caused horror duels at the 12 TN range, and got a 0 action they could actually have a hirable place, even if just with Seamus. 

The problem is the attack action everyone hates is only going to happen effectively once or maybe twice a game, and you aren't going to be certain your attack will even connect, or that you'll be able to hit the target you really want before they die. That uncertainty, even for such a powerful attack isn't worth 9 stones.

Additionally it's rules work against itself. If it wants to use its other attacks to start throwing out horror checks it then makes it so if a target passes the low TN of those horror checks it can then charge the Hanged and not have to take the higher level Terror check because the Hanged doesn't remove immunities to terror until they get into his aura and they've already declared their charge before entering the bubble. So using any of its other attacks perversely makes killing the Hanged even easier.

And completing the issues it has is that in order for it to be worth focusing on Horror and Terror requires several things to not be in the opposing crew. Immunity to conditions makes horror and terror less valuable. Immunity to paralyze makes it less valuable. Opposing condition removal makes it less valuable. Bonuses to wp duels, or immunity to such makes it less valuable. I mean I'm not saying every crew has all of those, but crews nowadays often have some of that, especially on high value targets, and often bring condition removal because Ressers have generally debilitating conditions to toss out.

It's just in a situation that focusing on Terror or Horror is a massive gamble and by no means certain to provide the dividends that just focusing on another aspect of the game does. It's only good attack that doesn't make itself less survivable by using it makes it a very high priority target, and it's very fragile for it's cost. And to top it off isn't very action efficient because it's a high cost model with no extra AP nor a good or even just marginally useful 0 action. So it's a terrible hire, but a massively powerful summon because of any of the negatives outweigh the costs of summoning him, you just don't.

 

[Kinginyello]

18 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

If they could hang back and remove horror immunity in LoS, or possibly just a really big aura and tossed out low or more likely no dmg attacks which caused horror duels at the 12 TN range, and got a 0 action they could actually have a hirable place, even if just with Seamus. 

The problem is the attack action everyone hates is only going to happen effectively once or maybe twice a game, and you aren't going to be certain your attack will even connect, or that you'll be able to hit the target you really want before they die. That uncertainty, even for such a powerful attack isn't worth 9 stones.

Additionally it's rules work against itself. If it wants to use its other attacks to start throwing out horror checks it then makes it so if a target passes the low TN of those horror checks it can then charge the Hanged and not have to take the higher level Terror check because the Hanged doesn't remove immunities to terror until they get into his aura and they've already declared their charge before entering the bubble. So using any of its other attacks perversely makes killing the Hanged even easier.

And completing the issues it has is that in order for it to be worth focusing on Horror and Terror requires several things to not be in the opposing crew. Immunity to conditions makes horror and terror less valuable. Immunity to paralyze makes it less valuable. Opposing condition removal makes it less valuable. Bonuses to wp duels, or immunity to such makes it less valuable. I mean I'm not saying every crew has all of those, but crews nowadays often have some of that, especially on high value targets, and often bring condition removal because Ressers have generally debilitating conditions to toss out.

It's just in a situation that focusing on Terror or Horror is a massive gamble and by no means certain to provide the dividends that just focusing on another aspect of the game does. It's only good attack that doesn't make itself less survivable by using it makes it a very high priority target, and it's very fragile for it's cost. And to top it off isn't very action efficient because it's a high cost model with no extra AP nor a good or even just marginally useful 0 action. So it's a terrible hire, but a massively powerful summon because of any of the negatives outweigh the costs of summoning him, you just don't.

 

Don't agree with the proposed solution of nixxing attack and turn into enforcerer. Understand the realism of statement however. 

 

That said i believe this is an accurate accounting of where the hanged is at the moment. So 👍 to u.

[Ludvig]

The obvious sollution is bringing double hanged so that you are always in an aura of a hanged that you didn't charge this activation  

Some thoughts on hanged:

Baleful cry is wasted space on the card, a single point of damage will never be better than half the wounds and making healing impossible. The whispers from beyond action and aura debuff seems plenty useful to warrant the cost and if they get in close you might sometimes want to use condemned whispers to cause mass horror duels. Hanged are not tanks, they're debuffers with scary attacks but you should probably use something to protect them from charges, whether that is another model engaging something a bit further away or just having them in close combat with charge threats. They have a high terrifying (all) and higher wp than a lot of similarly costed models while losing defence. The likelyhood of your opponent having at least a couple of models where that attack will get a lot of work done is close to 100% in my opinion. Even with just 7 wounds the attack will be like having min damage 4 because of how rounding works and most crews I face have a few models with 7 wounds or more even after a few turns. Any master will take at least five wounds before reductions and most models you want to remove for murder protege and similar schemes start at a minimum of 9 wounds.

Comparing them to an executioner (with it's upgrade) or sabertooth I think they look pretty comparable in survivability (hanged have a combined defense stat of 11 to the 10 of both other options) and the hanged have 7 wounds halving most incoming damage while the others have 10 wounds with no defenses except terrifying (living) at a lower value. Executioners and sabertooths get more ap but don't get to put that condition or aura debuff out.

If I face ressers I'm sure to bring at least one model with condition removal. The resser then targets that model early and neuters it so the question becomes, how many stones did I want to put into condition removal models? Fun fact about most prime condition removal models like Johan, stalkers, mysterious emissary and monks is that their removal action is an attack so they can't do squat to conditions on themselves. They also won't do much if paralyzed. Chiaki can move paralyzed to a friendly ancestor if she has one close but that isn't always the case.

18 hours ago, mojopin said:

whispers is a very powerful attack, but dont forget you needed:

1 master AP + 13 card in hand + 1ss if 13 is not crows+ 1corpse (for nico) + 1hanged succesful attack AP against wp which will propably will be more difficult to hit

If you dont chain activate it most of times youll get a 3wd 4df model without HtW that will probably die to ANY charge or two shots. Think about the resources invested and the resources your opponet will need to eliminate him. And when hitting a non fresh, armoured or ss preventer model damage wont be that amazing most of times. Ok, its good but in my opinion its not that good.

From the top of my head... with a 13 in hand a nurse will most of times render useless any master and many factions can break havoc with a 13, a ss and 1 decisive AP, dont know... a howard with a couple high rams, a viktoria whirlwind....

No one is forcing you to summon it within charge range of a model that can easily kill it. The attack is range 10 without a gun, summon it where the opponents are engaged or already activated and you will have it around next turn. If you can't do that then it's quite possible the nurse would be a better use of the ap, that is called good design. If summoning was an even bigger no-brainer I'd be sad. A lot of the time a master spending an ap to hit something will likely need to cheat a 12-13 to get a hit and that will sometimes do more damage than a single attack from the hanged but not always. I'd say summoning a hanged compares pretty well to other things a master can do with their ap for a similar resouce investment.

 

They are not auto includes but that is a good thing in my mind. They are situationally great models just like a lot of other models. Not every model is fit for every list.

[Nukemouse]

I thought horror duels from attacks and terrifying arent the same source even if they are the same model?

[Ludvig]

52 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

I thought horror duels from attacks and terrifying arent the same source even if they are the same model?

Terrifying just makes you cause a horror duel and the source of the horpe duel in both cases is the model forcing you to take it so they are the same.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The aura abd the whispers attack are absolutely not worth 9 stones. Bad argument as well comparing to an executioner who was until it got its upgrade and Nellie synergy regularly lambasted as one of the worst models in Guild. And I would hire an executioner over a Hanged anyday of the week.

[Ludvig]

46 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

The aura abd the whispers attack are absolutely not worth 9 stones. Bad argument as well comparing to an executioner who was until it got its upgrade and Nellie synergy regularly lambasted as one of the worst models in Guild. And I would hire an executioner over a Hanged anyday of the week.

So what would be an appropriate cost? 6ss? 7? There are models that support hanged just like the executioner get support from Nellie or McCabe.

How about the cerberus comparison? The hanged are usually more survivable and cerberii are considered good I think?

 

They could just as easily be compared to stitched together for 6ss. As long as they have a rarity and aren't summonable it shouldn't break the game.

[Da Git]

I'd argue that the Cerberus is on another level for two reasons: Leap and it's an Enforcer so it can take IE.  A Cerberus popping IE has Leap 7"+50mm base, then can either charge for 3 attacks+trigger at threat range 15"(7+7+1)+50mm or Leap then walk and charge for 2 attacks+trigger at threat range 20"(7+5+7+1)+50mm.  That's huge.  Even without IE, it's still got a decent threat range, good Ml and Dg with built in + above 4wds...

That said, whilst a Cerberus is probably much more consistent, the Hanged doesn't have to be as it's summoned.  I'd also say the Hanged is much more swingy, it can single handedly cripple a game plan unless condition removal is involved.

A super simple errata to the Hanged that would actually make me satisfied would be if Glimpse the Inevitable were non-leader.  SS drop to ~7ss

Otherwise, Enforcer them up!  Up the range of Unrelenting Terror to maybe 6" and remove the charge clause.  Make Condemned Whisper a (0) or just drop it completely in favour of a different (0), he needs a good zero as he'd really like MLH to boost survivability for the key turn.  Give Glimpse the Inevitable a discard clause to lose the Condition or non-leader. Lastly either boost his Df to 5 or Wds to 8-9 or drop SS cost to ~8ss

Either of those would be less game-breaking.

TLDR: Make Glimpse the Inevitable non-master would be amazing!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Da Git
Edit to add SS reduction