If you were the Errata man...

[madaxeman]

35 minutes ago, Jafar said:

Buff:
Cojo & Rattler - so they will see any play outside master box vs master box

I'd not turn down a buff on either model, however Cojo's un-resistable, no-tariff, no flip required  "push all models away 3"" can/should be a guaranteed way of preventing your opponent scoring on the Strategy for at least one turn per game in Extraction, Turf War, Guard the Stash. These tend to be schemes where both players would normally look to score heavily, so denying it for 1-2 turns can be decisive. You do need activation control to move him up late in the turn, which is not that difficult with Marcus.  The marker-eating trick is also pretty good.  Cojo's not a beater or a tarpit, but he does have his own unique role to play. 

[Da Git]

I'd love to see Kudra get a slight buff... not sure what...  Even if it came with a price hike but extra wounds and either Crit Strike or + to damage if she didn't charge for a touch extra damage potential.

[cktAvatar]

21 hours ago, Da Git said:

I'd love to see Kudra get a slight buff... not sure what...  Even if it came with a price hike but extra wounds and either Crit Strike or + to damage if she didn't charge for a touch extra damage potential.

Another interesting option could be to also promote Poison Gamin a bit more. E.g., Kudras Free of Mortal Shackles upgrade could give her an additional +1 poison on her attacks if there is a Poison Gamin around.

To make the picture complete why not also add Metal Gamin buff (+1 Df or so) to the list.

[Jordon]

If I were to do anything with Metal Gamin I would absolutely change protection of metal. As it stands it only works on certain models while also being frustratingly difficult to actually make use of.

I wish it were just a flat out "models within 3" gain positives to Df duels until the start of this models next activation". Or giving any model within range a Df trigger that forces a model to attack the gamin (maybe have some form of push involved) .

Making a model Df6 never made much sense to me thematically.

[Boomstick]

A different thought on Colette: she's only 8 wds and lives by her defensive triggers, both of which reduce damage. Meanwhile the number of models which deal damage that cannot be reduced has grown quite a lot in the last two books. For example, I have gotten to the point I won't bring her against Gremlins just because of the prevalence of Zipp, who can easily drop her twice and kill her.

So, I propose, more important than any change to Prompt is a change to her triggers so they can reduce damage even against irreduceable damage. I don't have a wording in mind, but while "ignore" would be the obvious choice, I feel it's not the right choice but I'm not sure why.

As to her new upgrades, I honestly think they're doing they're job of new playstyles, but they're too expensive. The saber one wants to be taken with a Lady's Secret for prime use, methinks, and it's practically impossible at that point to take her without spending 5-6 stone on upgrades alone.

[MuMantai]

The triggers would not work against Zipp either way, because he attacks Height. Also, there are still soulstones. But yeah, Colette is a poor choice against gremlins these days.

[frostwolf428]

@Aaron It's awesome to see that you are reading these nerf (cuddle?)/buff forums, whether or not any of these actually happen.

Just wanted to say these are some interesting posts, and I think it's really awesome to see people giving balanced criticism and buffs for models.

I'm not sure what I would like to see nerfed but I'd love to see some buffs to the unused models in the faction, like cojo, the captain, slateridge mauler etc. Most have been talked about in earlier posts but the more options there are the better.

 

[Patzer]

I am really curious. Is december acolytes really pulling that much weight in everyone's crews? I think they are a really neat offensive model, but they die so easy. They are also a gamble, they are strongest when they get to deploy second, where they can react to the opponent. But going first, they often  most be placed quite conservativley due to their squishiness. On top of everything, 7 is quite a steep price nowadays. At least I have a really hard time fitting them into my crews. 

[Fictor]

This is madness, Acolytes doesn't are soo good like you said, true, they are good, but not OP.

You really start every Arcanist list with an Acolyte like Nurse in Ress? I think no, for this reason think they are good at 7ss, if you up they to 8ss they never, NEVER will see again in one crew...

[Thottbot]

4 hours ago, Fictor said:

This is madness, Acolytes doesn't are soo good like you said, true, they are good, but not OP.

You really start every Arcanist list with an Acolyte like Nurse in Ress? I think no, for this reason think they are good at 7ss, if you up they to 8ss they never, NEVER will see again in one crew...

as a arcanist player i can say acolytes are a solid 7ss if you want defending/capture and hold a certain place, for example if you have the be on either side of the middle to score objectives.

but to be fair, i prefer spending my points on other things. they're autopicks in rasputina crews though

 

[Jinn]

I think making December Acolyte's slow an after damaging effect would tweak their strength down ever so slightly and also make them feel a bit fairer to fight against for the opponent, who could stone to block it potentially.

[Hot4Perdita]

My 2 cents to the question:

No Nurfs, as most of you know, I hate nurfs.

For a buff,  there needs to be an easier way to get scrap markers. Even with the new union steamfitter, it is way too resource intensive,  6ss model plus discard 2 cards. I suggest an action for Joss, the Brass Arachnid, or similar that allows you to drop a scrap marker as a (2) action. This would put it in line with the Ressurectionists "Found a Bone" that allows them to get a corpse marker for a (2) action. That would be a perfect balance, (2) action for both corpse and scrap, which are essentially for the same purpose, summoning. 

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

My 2 cents to the question:

No Nurfs, as most of you know, I hate nurfs.

For a buff,  there needs to be an easier way to get scrap markers. Even with the new union steamfitter, it is way too resource intensive,  6ss model plus discard 2 cards. I suggest an action for Joss, the Brass Arachnid, or similar that allows you to drop a scrap marker as a (2) action. This would put it in line with the Ressurectionists "Found a Bone" that allows them to get a corpse marker for a (2) action. That would be a perfect balance, (2) action for both corpse and scrap, which are essentially for the same purpose, summoning. 

Would you put a TN on get a scrap? because the get a bone on the canine remains needs a high crow for the corpse marker. And almost every master that wants a corpse marker wants a high crow as well. Where as only Ramos wants scrap (although mei can use it, she rarely would want it dropped on turn 1), and largely he only needs 1 scrap on that first turn, so 2 cards isn't that high a price. Or 4 SS if you just want to kill the electrical creation. or 3ss if you kill the mechanical toolkit. Its rare that I have to work out how to get scrap for turn 2 onwards, where as as a resser I am always needing more Corpse markers. 

 

 

[Hot4Perdita]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

Would you put a TN on get a scrap? because the get a bone on the canine remains needs a high crow for the corpse marker. And almost every master that wants a corpse marker wants a high crow as well. Where as only Ramos wants scrap (although mei can use it, she rarely would want it dropped on turn 1), and largely he only needs 1 scrap on that first turn, so 2 cards isn't that high a price. Or 4 SS if you just want to kill the electrical creation. or 3ss if you kill the mechanical toolkit. Its rare that I have to work out how to get scrap for turn 2 onwards, where as as a resser I am always needing more Corpse markers. 

 

 

I'm on the road, don't have my book with me, but if I remember right, it's Mortimer that has "Found a Bone"? I believe it's a (2) action with no TN or discard. It's just a 2 action to get a corpse marker. Basically you have to spend both his actions for it. 

[Adran]

Just now, Hot4Perdita said:

I'm on the road, don't have my book with me, but if I remember right, it's Mortimer that has "Found a Bone"? I believe it's a (2) action with no TN or discard. It's just a 2 action to get a corpse marker. Basically you have to spend both his actions for it. 

Mortimer and the Canine remains have the same action, it has a TN its just Mortimer has the crow built into his cast to do it. 

[Jinn]

2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I'm on the road, don't have my book with me, but if I remember right, it's Mortimer that has "Found a Bone"? I believe it's a (2) action with no TN or discard. It's just a 2 action to get a corpse marker. Basically you have to spend both his actions for it. 

It is Ca 5 TN 14

Scrap markers aren't very hard to get honestly. Just charge the mobile toolkit with Joss on turn 1 or bring 2 Steamfitters. You can even drop 3 at once with The Beast Within. It's way easier than getting corpses.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Jinn said:

It is Ca 5 TN 14

Scrap markers aren't very hard to get honestly. Just charge the mobile toolkit with Joss on turn 1 or bring 2 Steamfitters. You can even drop 3 at once with The Beast Within. It's way easier than getting corpses.

If I remember right the Canine remains are just Ca 5 for the action? So need the 9 to reach the TN

[Hot4Perdita]

Ok, i would say the (2) Action with TN is still better. I don't like the Joss/ Toolkit thing because:

1. You have to kill one of your own models.

2. The Toolkit is a very useful buff to other models.

3. I don't like wasting Joss' actions to get scrap when he should be moving up the board to kill things, which is what he does best.

[Adran]

I much prefere the steamfitters (0) with 2 card discard than  a (2) action with a TN. Especially if that action was on an expensive but slow beater henchman (Joss) But then I'm a big fan of Arcane reservoir if I'm summoning, and almost always have at least 2 weak cards in hand I can happily discard, especially on the first turn. 

I don't like killing my own models, but if I am doing that, then at least Joss moving up in a charge gets him somewhere rather than his entire turn doing nothing to generate it.

 

[Jinn]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

If I remember right the Canine remains are just Ca 5 for the action? So need the 9 to reach the TN

Yeah, sorry for the confusion. I posted that just as you posted above me, so I was referring to Mortimer's 2 action.

[joediamond]

Some of my ideas for Arcanists:

-Colette: Change her Now You See Me trigger to prevent all damage (same language as soulstones) as opposed to damage reduction.  As people have already pointed out, now that we have more and more abilities that ignore all forms of damage reduction, not just Armor, her primary defensive tool for staying alive is starting to show its age in the current rules.

 

-Captain: Update Wind Wall placement from "1 inch away from all models AND markers" to "not touching all models."  With all the corpse, scrap, scheme, and strategy/game markers flying around in the average game, not to mention the models themselves, I find it difficult to place two touching 50mm down in a strategically relevant location.  We have lots of newer marker generation mechanics like this that have less restrictive rules, and since Wind Wall is only severe soft cover, I can't really imagine any game-breaking scenarios it could cause like harsher terrain Markers (i.e. impassable Ice Pillars, Ice Path, etc).

-Pyre Markers (Carlos and Kaeris): Same placement restriction changes as Captain's Wind Wall markers, for similar reasons.  Maybe change the 1/2/4 hazardous on them to 0/1/3 and Burning+1 or something like that to add a little more synergy?

 

-Firestarter: Make Ignition ignore cover but remove it's Stoke the Flames trigger.  Let Firestarter actually have a role as a dependable fire starter.  

 

-Eternal Flame: Kaeris gains Instinctual when she activates in LOS of it (discard a card? range limit? the limits on this may need tweaking).  Of course, we would have to change Arcane Emissary's upgrade as well to benefit Kaeris some other way.  I am not sure what, but Eternal Flame needs SOMETHING.

 

-Mouse: Make his rope ignore randomization when shooting at models engaged solely by friendly M&SU (or a friendly M&SU that is engaged).  Make him a Minion that can drop a scheme marker once per turn when a nearby M&SU model is damage by an enemy attack action?  Or perhaps drop his cost to 3ss?  Similar to Eternal Flame, I think he needs a little help.

 

-December Acolyte: remove built-in on his Sh and add  to his Ml.  Perhaps reduce the Ml damage track to 1/3/4 and Slow?

-Rail Golem: Drop cost to 10ss.  Momentum trigger adds a cumulative +3 TN to the next cast of Locomotion.  Remove free extra Ml damage from Locomotion attacks while burning.  Alternatively, make the Rail Golem pay extra burning for this extra damage ("When damaging a target with Ml actions taken this way, this model may lower it's burning condition by up to 2 to deal that much extra damage" or something like that).  Perhaps include (1) Interact actions as allowable Locomotion actions, but that would likely mean keeping him at 11ss.

 

-Cojo: Add a  to his (2) Ml attack.  Perhaps also increase his (1) Ml stat to 6 and decrease it's severe damage to 4 or 5.  Solidify his role as a model that absolutely wrecks enemy positioning rather than a raw bruiser.

 

-Razorspine Rattler: +1 Ml.  Constriction only gives a single  when disengaging.

 

-Metal Gamin: Remove additional burning from Fierce Head Butt.  Reduce Armor to +1.  Change Protection of Metal.  A lot of ideas about this already, mine goes something like this: it activates a 3"  until it activates again.  When another friendly model in this  suffers damage from an enemy attack action, the gamin may suffer exactly 1 damage which may not be reduced or prevented to reduce that damage by 1, to a minimum of 1.  Each friendly model in this crew may only reduce damage this way once per turn, regardless of how many Protection of Metal auras it is in range and LOS of.

Edited December 16, 2017 by joediamond
Clarification on Rail Golem

[BFOmega]

1 hour ago, joediamond said:

Eternal Flame: Kaeris gains Instinctual when she activates in LOS of it (discard a card? range limit? the limits on this may need tweaking).  Of course, we would have to change Arcane Emissary's upgrade as well to benefit Kaeris some other way.  I am not sure what, but Eternal Flame needs SOMETHING.

Could do something like letting him use one of Kaeris's 0 actions when in X in, so gives a psuedo instinctual that probably stops working later in the game when Kaeris goes in.

[madaxeman]

On 15/12/2017 at 6:43 AM, Hot4Perdita said:

For a buff,  there needs to be an easier way to get scrap markers. 

Just make the Electric Creation 3 SS.  Or even 2. 

Summoning generally has had a little nerf in GG18, so the EC being 3 woudl be nice and simple. It would also mean the Toolkit might get some actual play rather than being a cheap EC in turn 1... 

[Bane]

Everyone clamoring for the nerf to Sandeep's Beacon is just blowing my mind. Not sure why in this age of Wave 5 and power creep you're now trying to tone down one of our Masters that levels the playing field.

If Acolytes were 8ss, no one would take them. 7ss is right for them.

Most of the other Frozen Heart models are overpriced, none more than the Blessed of December. Make that thing 7 or 8ss.

Buff or reduce Cojo's cost.

The Captain is far too expensive with his upgrade at 12ss. He should be 10ss, upgrade should be a 0ss upgrade, or else Captain 9 / upgrade 1ss, so it counts for Show of Force.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, Bane said:

Most of the other Frozen Heart models are overpriced, none more than the Blessed of December. Make that thing 7 or 8ss.

Agreed on blessed. Were you around when they were 6ss at their m2e release misprint? Holy shit were they good for 6ss models!