Wave 5 Change in Master Levels

[beevison]

Was browsing through the Arcanist forums and noticed they have a thread on how Wave 5 has changed the meta for their Masters.

Thought it might be an idea if we Outcasts had a similar thing. 

I haven't played any of the new Wave 5 stuff, so my understanding is theoretical at best.

But, I was hoping for other people's input, experiences and thoughts on how Wave 5 has affected our faction.

[FunWithKnives]

It takes time to properly measure powerlevel of masters.

My observations: VS got better, Hamelin is op. 

[Cedar]

Hamelin definitely got most from wave 5 - Plague Pits are in top 3 Broken Promises upgrades, Benny Wolcomb is nice damage dealing henchman with supporting abilities, Midnight Stalker was made for Hamelin and maybe even Freikorps Engineer has its place in Plague crew (probably together with Desolation Engine). Great news for me, as Hamelin is my favorite master.

Second winner is VS. Engineer can bump his damage track to respectable 3/4/7 (ignoring armor), give him armor and draw few cards. Nythera aftermath is nice upgrade, although Oath of the Freikorps outshines it, as VS can now give free AP to other models.

Third master who got most is Tara. She received enormous boost in form of Emptiness and Out of Time. Both upgrades are powerful and are auto-include with her. Talos is good model, especially since it has damage track of 3/4/5, and 3 on weak was something that Tara's thematic crew was missing. 

Fourth are probably Viktorias - now you can delete one model, then bury Vik and unbury her with Scion next turn!

Parker is fifth, mostly because his Conflux helps his resource management. Hidden Steel Plate and High Noon are nice additions to his toolbox, but let's face it - he still is Parker, with all downsides he had before wave 5.

Leveticus mediocre upgrades, but you can change Pariah of Iron into them, which is ok. His biggest boost are Kentakouri (free movement) and Obsidian Statue (more damage).

Jack Daw is nearly at the bottom due to simple reason - he doesn't have free slots for any of this upgrades. 

Misaki is last because Viks are still better than her. It would be nice if she could take Terracottas with her.

[FunWithKnives]

Centaurs could be insane with Leve, needs to be tested. Not sure about Statue. I also like his new upgrade, removing enemy markers is always good. 

[beevison]

Did Hamelin really need to be made better?

[Cedar]

1 minute ago, beevison said:

Did Hamelin really need to be made better?

Well, this wave make Blight gameplay better, and I love Blight mechanics, so it's positive change for me. Now you'll more diversity in Hamelin crews, with players replacing Deso Engine and A&D with Nix and Benny.

[beevison]

2 minutes ago, Cedar said:

Well, this wave make Blight gameplay better, and I love Blight mechanics, so it's positive change for me. Now you'll more diversity in Hamelin crews, with players replacing Deso Engine and A&D with Nix and Benny.

Ah Ok. Have to say the new Blight mechanics seem like he would be more fun to play with now.

[DXXXVIII]

My Guess of powerlevel:

1. Hamelin still best, got another boost.

2. Viks were allready strong, got even better due to Scion of Void and their new Upgrade boost.

3. Tara Which received a nice boost as well and seems to me the second best Supporter (Hello Hamelin :P) with a nice Bonus to being able to counter many obnoxious crews relying on hiding or bury mechanics.

4. Misaki because she fills a Niche as our dedicated Blast-Master which outcast didn't had till now.

5. Jack Daw who's a combination of beater and Supporter but didn't get any boost and seems a bit restricted by his Keyword (even though Nurses are great) as well as having other Masters being better at beating and supporting.

6. Levi who has the biggest Hiring pool but got cuddled kinda hard which hurt him badly because hes now our "Big hiring pool Master" instead of "Big Hiring pool Beater" which isn't enough in my opinion.

7. Von Schill who got a Boost but still... Take a VS crew and replace VS with hamelin and its straight out better. Take a VS crew and replace VS with Tara and its straight out better. Hes not as bad as before but he still lacks in beating power (Although he can pull of a cool attack-Combo with his new Upgrades by hitting throwing, shooting, pushing, hitting again on plus flips but it's kind of a  BJ fishing) and is still supports only his Keywords and doing a poor job at it.

8. Parkers still the worst. Very Squishy but wants to be on the Front. Highly restricted by his Keyword. High Target numbers and Actions not strong enough for the hoops you have to jump through to make them work. Often even allowing your opponent to choose the most convenient outcome. Not to mention that they often cost SS to reuse again.

[Davos]

8 hours ago, Cedar said:

Second winner is VS. Engineer can bump his damage track to respectable 3/4/7 (ignoring armor), give him armor and draw few cards. Nythera aftermath is nice upgrade, although Oath of the Freikorps outshines it, as VS can now give free AP to other models.

 

I wouldn't quite agree about this. VS is my main and while its been a nice buff, Engineer is not crazy amazing.  Getting the ram + is actually much harder than it looks.  The card draw is nice but I find it very situational.  I find that Aftermath is much stronger, since it increases he's utility SO much.  The throw is awesome and can peel things off really nicely and Ambidextrous is crazy strong to surprise people.  

Oath is cool, but you're in essence trading a master AP to give other models AP.  Which can be good, except you want VS hitting stuff to give out Priority Target.  And in order to attack things with priority target, they generally need to burn oathkeepr to get in position, which defeats the purpose.  It is a cute move for Show of Force tossing Oathkeepers to Trappers or Freikorpsmann (I do thing it makes Freikorpsmann actually viable now) but overall I've found Aftermath by far the best one.  

[FunWithKnives]

Yeah, Oath is badly worded and requires too much setup. 

VS now goes best with TBTA, survivalist, aftermath. Dress him up with emissary, launch lazarus in the middle of the field and go wreck guys with upgrades. 

[apes-ma]

56 minutes ago, FunWithKnives said:

Yeah, Oath is badly worded and requires too much setup. 

VS now goes best with TBTA, survivalist, aftermath. Dress him up with emissary, launch lazarus in the middle of the field and go wreck guys with upgrades. 

I think that's the way to go - although I get so much use out of Engage At Will and the Steam Trunk that I think in some match ups I will definitely be dropping The Bigger They Are for Engage At Will. And then there are also the times that I'll want Hannah or Anna over the Emissary, which means I might take The Shirt Comes Off in there somewhere. I think that's what makes me so pleased with the Von Schill upgrades though - thinking about what to take is always going to be interesting and the playstyle of him and his crew will vary based on that (I feel like a lot/most Outcast masters have pretty fixed upgrade configurations and/or playstyles, even with wave 5).

[Raimu]

How do you find Tara competitive now, with new upgrades and Talos? 

[beergod]

On 9/21/2017 at 7:47 AM, Raimu said:

How do you find Tara competitive now, with new upgrades and Talos? 

She is still very competitive, if anything it give void spam Terra more toys

Talos I'm still on the fence about about, might help her more in ressers 

 

[noahsheck]

On 9/20/2017 at 5:11 AM, apes-ma said:

I think that's the way to go - although I get so much use out of Engage At Will and the Steam Trunk that I think in some match ups I will definitely be dropping The Bigger They Are for Engage At Will. And then there are also the times that I'll want Hannah or Anna over the Emissary, which means I might take The Shirt Comes Off in there somewhere. I think that's what makes me so pleased with the Von Schill upgrades though - thinking about what to take is always going to be interesting and the playstyle of him and his crew will vary based on that (I feel like a lot/most Outcast masters have pretty fixed upgrade configurations and/or playstyles, even with wave 5).

I am brand new to this game, and still learning, but Von Schill is the only master I have used.  I can't imagine taking him without Engage at Will - I use that all over the place.

[apes-ma]

15 hours ago, noahsheck said:

I am brand new to this game, and still learning, but Von Schill is the only master I have used.  I can't imagine taking him without Engage at Will - I use that all over the place.

It's a niche case, but in a game at the weekend Von Schill used clockwork arm to punch steam trunk into the right location so that Hannah could use the heal and then (thanks to engage at will) copy the librarians heal to save Johan. Good old engage at will.

[Davos]

Dont forgot Engage AT Will coupled with Rusty Aylice and her summon upgrade.  Assuming you have the cards, you can drop a scrape and summon an abom every turn with it.  

[Freman]

Engage at will is one of the few AP multiplication abilities Freikorps has access to, and that only with (0) abilities, that and I Pay Better, but that costs cards whenever you use it. Still, an extra focus on Lazarus or Strongarm suit can sometimes prove decisive in a pinch. Unfortunately Von Schill usually doesn't have space for it, so it requires taking a Henchman (Freikorps candidates being Hannah or Anna).

[Davos]

50 minutes ago, Freman said:

Engage at will is one of the few AP multiplication abilities Freikorps has access to, and that only with (0) abilities, that and I Pay Better, but that costs cards whenever you use it. Still, an extra focus on Lazarus or Strongarm suit can sometimes prove decisive in a pinch. Unfortunately Von Schill usually doesn't have space for it, so it requires taking a Henchman (Freikorps candidates being Hannah or Anna).

Agreed.  All those (0) are already fairly card intensive, and allowing multiple eats through a hand crazy fast.  And extra cards are somewhat hard to find in outcasts (Sue, Hannah, Anna anyone else?)  I also find Hannah is a somewhat meh model.  For being a 10ss Henchman, she dies WAY to fast, even with Armor +1.  The only way she doesn't is if you have a hella big cache, which VS can't do at auto Cache 1, and when he's already being crazy out activated or if you dedicate the librarian to heal her every round.  Which feels bad man cause the librarian can do so much (and needs to heal other models)

[Freman]

Abominations can hurt each other for card draw, but you don't want too many of those in a Freikorps list.

[Adran]

36 minutes ago, Freman said:

Abominations can hurt each other for card draw, but you don't want too many of those in a Freikorps list.

I'd argue that Friekorps lists are one of the best ones to go strong abomination on. 

1 Von schill can allow Alyce to do 2 (0) actions so she can make an abpomination each turn even without any scrap, and

2, the poor cards you draw from abominations can be used by the abominations to heal if they are near the steam trunk. It would be turning card draw into card cycling, but can still be pretty strong when you have no other use for the low cards.