Jump to content

What would make you hire Mortimer again?


hydranixx
 Share

Recommended Posts

With each passing Wave, our faction is blessed with more lovable flesh bags, devious necromancers and ghastly spirits, threatening to leave models and upgrades from Wave 1 in the dust. I'd like to focus on Mortimer for a moment; from what I gather on facebook, forums and first hand accounts, our original grave digging henchman already sees very little play outside of some niche builds. Once every self respecting Resser player has their Wave 5 Asura, Kentauroi et al filth, converted or otherwise, I suspect that Morty will be completely obsolete.

We simply have more efficient options for all the things he's trying to do.

In terms of corpse generation, Asura Roten offers Mindless Zombies instead of just corpses, does this more efficiently since she doesn't spend 2AP or use up 3 wounds apiece and an expensive upgrade to make them, and can loan out either a fairly good damaging attack or a very debilitating debuff attack to nearby Undead, including to her aforementioned Mindless Zombies.  

For scheme manipulation, scoring or denial, Phillip and the Nanny's (1) access to Chatty and (0) access to removing scheme markers (and turning them into corpse markers, no less) arguably stronger than his innate Chatty, and has Transparency-esque access to dropping Scheme Markers on successful attacks. 

Would you believe that they're also both cheaper than Mortimer?

His only unique attribute comes from Fresh Meat. If he's just there to cast Fresh Meat, couldn't he sacrifice his pointless Ml7, some of his wounds or stats, and be a few soulstones cheaper? What would you change on his card or upgrade options to make him appealing again, if ever he was appealing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there. I think that he is still very useful for Nicodem. Morti+CorpseBloat+MyLittleHelper gives you 3 corpses and a starting hand of 7 which makes summoning a breeze. I haven't read any combos with the Kentaurs yet. I've been wanting to try 2 Kentaurs to taxi Morti and Nico to the middle of the board and start summoning right in their face round 1...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far i'm using him always with Nico.
Corpse generation (+ the Emmisary), Fresh Meat, chatty and Fling rot as a Setup for later Shikome charges (my go-to Beater Summon) are a realy nice and round package.

Sure others might do some aspects better, but no one brings the whole package.

Wave 5 brings some pretty good contenders though. If your just looking for Corpsegeneration, Emmisary, Kentauroi and Asura are realy realy strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't solely see him as a corpse-generator? Take him in a McMourning crew so he can use fresh meat to move stuff that McMourning has turned undead (uncluding himself). If you can push 2-3 models  I think you can get very good use out of that single ap to take the upper hand in the game with aggressive positioning. Use it again on a model on the other flank to push 2-3 models up there too, effectively expanding your deployment and facilitating lots of schemes and creating a bigger danger zone for opponents. McMourning is often quite aggressive himself and I hear people complain that he lacks fast support so having some stuff further up sounds like it would be nice for him. Fling rot in conjunction with the multitude of poison synergies in a McMourning crew can turn out nice if the enemy has a few models with lowish willpower. Once Mort is a bit farther up use him to deny schemes in an always active bubble that doesn't force your activation order while spending his ap on killing stuff and his ml 7 to keep things engaged. He doesn't have killer damage either but he should be likely to interfere with stuff while needing some resources to remove.

Philip does not deny schemes nearly as well since one of his prime defenses is manipulative which doesn't go well with needing to activate first in the turn to deny interacts. If that goes away Mortimer has more wounds and regen.

I would look to Mort in headhunter or squatter's rights. I also think he should be interesting in stake a claim since you can lock down a significant part of the board.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like mortimer quite a bit, although I don't use him that much. 

 

One thing of note is that he's one of the best targets in faction for nurse's ram trigger, with ml 7, 2" reach, and no flurry. He's got enough wounds to hang in there for a bit and while he's not really the best at anything, he's satisfyingly good at a lot of things. I think the problem with mortimer is that corpse bloat should probably be a 1 upgrade, and he should probably be a stone cheaper. Still, I don't think he's totally obsolete. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see him as purely corpse generation. I actually see him as a utility piece disguised as a gravedigger, who doesn't have enough actual utility to be worth 9ss.

Fresh Meat is a worthwhile spell but it shouldn't be the only reason we're paying 9ss. It's great for Molly on turn 1, and then he goes back to twiddling his thumbs the rest of the game. I'm sure it could be valuable for McMourning too, though I've never heard of anyone hiring Mortimer with McMourning. Maybe its some crazy tech no one thinks to try. How often have you hired Mortimer with McMourning?

Fling Rot is awful, even for Shikome. I summon them a lot they're my beater of choice too. 1AP for a Ca5 :ranged, from a henchman of all things. Most of Fling Rot's problem is that damn :ranged icon. He can only realistically threaten things your opponent doesn't care about since everything that is important is engaged or in cover by turn 2, and he's already consigned to using Fresh Meat twice on turn 1 for his huge cost to be remotely worthwhile imo. 

His corpse production can be adequate for 1 turn of the entire game, for an extremely high price. He's spending more than half of his wounds, costing 12ss, using up all his AP and a 9+ card, and prematurely activating My Little Helper. It always feel awful using it early - it's super good on turn 2 or 3 to screw with the opponent, but then he can't double down on Corpse Bloat.

Just... take Asura for 4 less soulstones?

I liked him in Tail 'Em and in Headhunter since Chatty is legit there but these are both leaving the pool in GG2018. Outside of these, I find Phillip and the Nanny far more flexible and useful at denying and scoring than Mortimer is already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@hydranixx That was pure theoryfaux on my part. I have only played McMourning in guild so far but leaving the doc overextended or needing to waste his actions turn 1 because everyone else is too far back to support him has been a problem in every single game I've played.

I'm currently growing a resser collection purely for McMourning. When I started looking at resser models Mortimer popped up as a model I really wanted to try. Nurses are nice for poisoning your own stuff but are always too slow to catch up if you use them for that turn 1 which hampers their board control in later turns.

Sebastian is cool for his aura but I prefer to have him not engaged and just lurk 6" away because he does not handle close combat well. Except for a rogue necromancy I'm currently not sure what I would want as a beater since guild has spoiled me on that front. Ml 7 is always good to have and as you said I could then put on the nurse buff and really start to do some harm. Chatty is a godsend in headhunter because in my games with that strategy it quickly devolves into a massive scrum where I pick heads with don't mind me and try to deny the opponent from doing the same, Mortimer could completely shut that down. 

 

My base assumption is that you can find a job for any model, you just need to find out what that job is. There are a few models where I've become so frustrated that I more or less stopped trying but I don't think Mortimer is one of those. The reach of that charge in conjunction with the possibility of McMournings push makes him an excellent scheme denier when the opponent thinks they'll just chill outside of my charge range and do claim jump. Using my master to hunt 4-5ss models and missing out on the synergy between McMournings auto poison attacks and Seb's aura rubs me the wrong way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mortimer is amazing.

 

The set up he gives you with Nicodem is invaluable and neither Asura or the Emmisary will make me take him out. Nicodems new upgrade which brings him back as an undead model makes him even better giving him the positive flips and with his regeneration the decay doesn't hurt him so bad. 

I've played Mortimer with Nico all year and the addition of the new upgrade to let him see out the later turns and Kentouroi to carry him and Nico up the board have made him even better.

I see that he's a heavy investment but the amount of models he allows you to get on the board early makes him worth it. It's all about the set up for me and I've had alot of success with him.

Now the Kentouroi drop corpses too he can actually play the supporter role in the later turns with chatty and positive flips from the new upgrade.

Also he's really nice fresh meating a Molly crew up the board 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Admittidly i haven't seen the actual wording of the wave 5 cards but:

 

Is the last breath upgrade a may choice or is it first come, first serve? I ask because nurses die very early if your opponent has a sniper, and the emissary, vulture, malifaux child, asura rotten, and anna lovelace all show up constantly as well and not sure all of them are worth the 2 ss to keep alive with little control from me. Especially the vulture. If it revived the stupid vulture instead of mort that would prove rage inducing.

 

Also, at 14 ss for keeping mort alive (mort, mlh, corpse bloat, last breath at 2 ss), thats a lot. Asura + buzzards gets 2 corpses first turn, which is good enough to get some high quality undead going, def if walking first turn or fasting one of them. Steed lets you generate even more by charging enemies. Emissary has walls. Fresh meat is nice but summoned models are generally where they need to be after first turn, and nicos list normally doesnt start with a lot of undead that needs moving, besides maybe philip. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still not sure what to think of either of Nico's new upgrades, but they could come up clutch. 

Buzzards seems really card hungry - from what I understand, 2 cards for 1 Corpse? I'm a little hesitant to rely on that, but the extra life for Mortimer seems interesting.

One of my biggest gripes is spending 12 soulstones for a Living model that uses up his own wounds when Nicodem buffs and supports only Undead. Maybe Mortimer getting two lives is enough to swing the balance for me. I will have the new upgrades next week so I'll start experimenting with it.

Honestly though, finding space on Nicodem for it could be tough... Love Thy Master looks more and more appealing with Kentauroi being released since they're flimsy but their charges look crazy good and LTM would let them Charge as soon as they're summoned without the opponent getting a chance to respond.

I appreciate all the replies. Thanks for the insight... that's offered some food for thought. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

eh, I likely wouldn't use Last Breath for Mortimer either, but I never take Mortimer :) Last Breath opens up some interesting options for Nico thought. Rafkin becomes more useful, Sebastian becomes really hard to get rid of, Forgotten Marshall, Anna, Hayreddin, gravediggers, and Sloth (he's living right?) are all new and interesting choices for Nicodem. You basically get a second chance at a model for one upgrade. 

mmm.... a buffed Undead Rafkin hitting a poisoned model......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

I'm still not sure what to think of either of Nico's new upgrades, but they could come up clutch. 

Buzzards seems really card hungry - from what I understand, 2 cards for 1 Corpse? I'm a little hesitant to rely on that, but the extra life for Mortimer seems interesting.

One of my biggest gripes is spending 12 soulstones for a Living model that uses up his own wounds when Nicodem buffs and supports only Undead. Maybe Mortimer getting two lives is enough to swing the balance for me. I will have the new upgrades next week so I'll start experimenting with it.

Honestly though, finding space on Nicodem for it could be tough... Love Thy Master looks more and more appealing with Kentauroi being released since they're flimsy but their charges look crazy good and LTM would let them Charge as soon as they're summoned without the opponent getting a chance to respond.

I appreciate all the replies. Thanks for the insight... that's offered some food for thought. 

Havent played buzzards so gain of salt and opinion allowed to change. That said first turn is generally minor on combat and need for some lower cards is lessened. It should be worth going for 1 corpse at two cards. If 4 cards are utter garbage, then might as well go with another but that is a case by case basis.

This should be countered by the ease of philip getting both scheme markers this turn as well as the 1 asura generates.

Now asura doesnt normally get you a card but undertaker does. Unlike mort who gets corpses, asura gets a mindless zombie. This allows another model in your list, such as big bird to kill it within range of nico getting you another card then normally allowed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could work. An extra corpse that doesn't cost AP is obviously appealing but at the cost of an upgrade slot and 2 cards... I don't know, I'm not convinced. I always find uses for cards in my hand. Maybe I'm doing something differently to you though. This is how I see my opening hands:

High cards; Reanimator needs a 9+ for things worth summoning, but ideally I spend 12+ cards on it, possible 10+ to force a Lure with a Belle, Mortimer may possibly need another 9+ and I might save decent cards an important opposed duels.

Mid cards; Carrion Emissary, Necropunk/Doxy/"Muwahahah"/Malifaux Child if I bring him (casting Rigor Mortis) all need 7+.

Low cards; Crooligan(s)*, Graveyard Spirit if I bring it, might need a discard, Nico's Rigour Mortis needs 4+, friendly Lure needs a 5+, if I bring a Nurse I might want a low card with the suit I want. I hoard low cards if I'm against anything mobile with assassination or discard triggers.

Jokers: I hold onto Black, possibly to ditch at the start of the next turn, possibly to keep out of the deck for multiple turns. I use Red to summon or sometimes save it for a pivotal damage flip on later turns.

 

*I bring least one Crooligan every time I bother with Mortimer, which this thread would have me believe I should still be doing, for Fresh Meat options. They won't always go Df stance, but often enough that I want the spare card to do it.

Phillip and the Nanny and Undertaker draw cards, but they need middling cards to enable them most efficiently, and they may draw me nothing helpful. I won't know what cards I'll get from them before having choose to how many cards discard for the corpse markers at the start of the turn.

I honestly can't remember the last time I finished a first turn without using at least 5 cards. What do you usually find your cards doing turn 1?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed on high and mid cards, with an emphasis of emissary being a required success and necropunk only if a card is there for it. I say this as i believe i can find someone else to drop the 2nd scheme if there is a problem with the necro doing it. 

The difference i suppose is over my care towards low cards. I only concern myself with them after drawing each turn and finding a plan to use them during that turn only. I dont generally plan on keeping low cards from one turn to the next for the nurse. I do this because more cards that are allowed to be drawed have a higher chance of being the high cards that nico needs.

I also do not bring crooligans as well normally, prefering necropunks to performs the schemes i normally choose such as dig their graves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried him out with two rogue necros with Molly for turn 1 fresh meat shenanigans, after which he slowly wandered up the board to beat face with the shovel. Sure, it worked ok, but he wasn't terribly useful after doing the fresh meat trick. I lured/pushed him with a belle and a doxy to move him up the board, but WK 4 is painful on any model. Do I think he was worth 9ss in this scenario? Yes and no. Mortimer is default worth the price paid for fresh meat because nothing else can do it, but he didn't do anything particularly significant after turn 1 that a 9ss model would be expected to do.

If Mortimer could also push when using fresh meat I would be pretty excited, I would use him as a front line brawler, he's got a load of wounds, regen and ML 7, he'd be great for picking off minions and his chatty aura would get more use.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sybelle & a Belle are 14ss-15ss worth... think at that point I'd lean 2 Kentauroi for 16ss instead, they'll get him and Molly/Nico up the board and they'll benefit from Fresh Meat more than Sybelle and a Belle would and probably contribute more to the gameplan once they get there.

Mortimer likes Nurse buff, sure, but now you have two Wk4 models that aren't living or Horrors and can't get buffed from Nico/Molly or get Fresh Meated. I like the aforementioned Rogue Necros, those things are even more insane with Nurse buff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, hydranixx said:

Sybelle & a Belle are 14ss-15ss worth... think at that point I'd lean 2 Kentauroi for 16ss instead, they'll get him and Molly/Nico up the board and they'll benefit from Fresh Meat more than Sybelle and a Belle would and probably contribute more to the gameplan once they get there.

Mortimer likes Nurse buff, sure, but now you have two Wk4 models that aren't living or Horrors and can't get buffed from Nico/Molly or get Fresh Meated. I like the aforementioned Rogue Necros, those things are even more insane with Nurse buff.

... good point

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information