Franchute Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Fog said: I got mad at that too. Also, he wasn't healing as his spiders dropped. That's because he put the upgrade on Joss XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Franchute said: That's because he put the upgrade on Joss XD Every time a friendly construct is killed within 6? he heals 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, Fog said: Every time a friendly construct is killed within 6? he heals 2 My bad. I thought you were talking about the spiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, Fog said: Every time a friendly construct is killed within 6? he heals 2 Obviously he didn't have LoS to them through the smoke of the exploding stalkers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 7:22 AM, Rathnard said: I'm a Barbie Girl, In a Barbie World,Life in plastic, It's fantastic! You can brush my hair, Undress me anywhere, Imagination, Life is your creation,,, --- The Outcast story, ugh. I'm very sorry to the author but I didn't like this one at all. To me, the whole thing felt really contrived. It doesn't make sense to me that these VERY different groups would just decide to set up their own town in the Badlands. Sure, I can see Von Schill and the Mercs doing it. Possibly Parker and Tara although that's really stretching it. But Levi's got a legitimate business that he's been running for years, and Hamelin surely cares more for the ruins of Malifaux City and its high population density for His plagues. But the lowpoint for me was the reason for Jack Daw coming to this new town - Parker's going to steal the Hanging tree? Really? Like I said before, it felt really contrived. Not only that, but the major plot point, all the Outcasts joining together, feels like an erosion of the Faction's identity. To me, the Outcasts are defined not by their unity (like other Factions) but their independence. They might occasionally work together out of necessity (or money), but each group is otherwise an island - beholden to nobody, with all the strengths and weaknesses that entails. Clearly the folks at Wyrd have a plan with this, either in terms of plot development or in what they want to do with the Faction in future editions (or both). But it nonetheless doesn't sit right with me. The one shining moment, though, was Karina. I swear, that girl just makes everything better. Lorem Ipsum...No, not going to do that. I have to do it enough for work. I wonder if there's a Malifaux equivalent for placeholder instructions in constructs. Lorem Ipsum Doctrine?  It makes sense for Von Schill to propose it, but the others don't necessarily have to follow through on it. Levi's shop will be affected by any scorched earth approach Marlow might take to the Quarantine Zone, so he'll want to make sure he has his tunnels dug--but they won't necessarily go to Von Schill's town. Related note: I don't think Jack Daw is going to respond well to someone trying to move his tree. He's there to punish all the wicked and being where he can survey all who enter officially, he has no shortage of targets. There's a lot of potential for infighting among the Outcasts just getting to where Von Schill suggested, and more to be had on site too--for the same reason you pointed out: these are drastically different groups, different methods and standards, different goals, and different allegiances. How long do you think people would get along once the Sisters (and Taelor) become aware of the Tyrant thralls that they're sharing space with? For that matter, will Plague and Oblivion feel about their proxies being in close quarters with each other? Just because they joined forces against Titania doesn't mean they're friends, after all. On 9/3/2017 at 0:04 AM, -Loki- said: For some reason this felt a lot like Felonius Gru from Despicable me. Yeah, pretty much. "I'm known for stealing everything not nailed down, well, I'll show them and steal some stuff that's not only nailed down and tied up, I'll steal the very thing that that stuff is affixed to!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Generic Spoiler warning   Well we know Benny is likely making an inroad for Hamelin but that does not mean Hamelin is going to go out there himself, just he will have a doggy door *ratty door?* access when he needs to 'hire' mercenary or wants to manipulate events. He would love for Von Shill and them to give trouble to other Tyrants, he would also love for them to hack Titania to pieces. So why not have your thrall make friendly with them so you can try to manipulate them from the shadows. The Viks have already done a job for Tara before and not torn her apart so I am guessing at this point Shezul is still hanging low and content to let the Viks go about their normal bloody ways with out any real attempt on control. As for Jack Daw, I don't think he uses the tree to watch anyone. His fluff seems to more imply he is drawn to strong points of 'injustice'. Stealing the tree would be more of a black eye to Marlow's reputation as he is trying to ride the notion that he is superior to the previous Governor General and that he is actually in control. Having one of your symbols of justice being served stolen while not much of a real physical loss is more of face then anything. As for Levi, sure he is running a successful business... Illegal business. I highly doubt his legal business could hope to pay for all his experiments. It is the merc work and dirty business that really rolls in the money and soulstones. And while he would be able to keep it rolling for a while after Marlow drops the hammer on mercenary work, if every other major player picks up and leaves he is going to quickly end up on some list. And sure, he could possible weather all of this, but Levi is in a pinch right now. His whole come back from dying thing is not working right anymore and he knows he needs to fix it. If his illegal business goes dry he will not likely be able to get the resources he needs. Worse what it might take for him to fix his problem might be some rather nasty sorts of magic, rituals, or items. Stuff that the Mercs might overlooking as he is a valuable resource but the Guild will not be so willing. Also joining Von Shill and the rest might be job security. His skill at acquiring and building things will be a valuable commodity in the community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 /rant Minor spoilers ahoy! ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- -------------  I have to say I'm mostly disappointed by the new stories. Books 3 and 4 finally started to feel less like a fanfic/lore entry and more like actual fiction (not to mention some great stories in Chronicles this year), but Broken Promises, well, broke that promise. Most of the stories do nothing but advance the plot while providing fan service ("wheeeeee, we get to see Levi talk to a certain man in black!"; "wheeee, we are now certain that Levi and Alyce are doing it"; "wheee, we get to see Lilith shot by a Nephilim in a trench coat!"; "wheee, we see Toshiro command a crew of Punk Zombies!"): there is so much going on that it leaves almost no room for character development.  Sure, we see some inner McMourning struggle, but both Nico and Seamus are just a backdrop for his transformation (which they shouldn't be, they are major characters). Yes, the Guild story that focuses on masters' everyday life is amazing. But most of the other stuff is just the same as Book 4 vignettes in a more detailed form, which is definitely a step down from Book 4 story standarts.  This might not be a bad thing (i'd prefer proper literature to historical archives, but I do realize it's not the only way to do things): information on the setting and characters is more abundant and readily accessible to anyone interested. But at the same time it feels pre-digested, requiring readers no effort to piece the world together, removing the mystery. And once I was done fuming over Freikorpsland, in waltzed Misaki with her overwhelming Mary Sueness and tricked a bunch of high-end criminal generals (who apparently were born yesterday and inherited their general status) just as easily as Yamaziko pwnazores a throng of Illuminated. Right, very convincing. TL;DR: I'll take stories like "High Noone" or the Neil Henry one or the winner of the Rose Tattoo contest over any of the Book 4 stories (maybe with the exception of the Guild one). ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- rant/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 7:59 PM, Seadhna said: /rant Minor spoilers ahoy! ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- -------------  I have to say I'm mostly disappointed by the new stories. Books 3 and 4 finally started to feel less like a fanfic/lore entry and more like actual fiction (not to mention some great stories in Chronicles this year), but Broken Promises, well, broke that promise. Most of the stories do nothing but advance the plot while providing fan service ("wheeeeee, we get to see Levi talk to a certain man in black!"; "wheeee, we are now certain that Levi and Alyce are doing it"; "wheee, we get to see Lilith shot by a Nephilim in a trench coat!"; "wheee, we see Toshiro command a crew of Punk Zombies!"): there is so much going on that it leaves almost no room for character development.  Sure, we see some inner McMourning struggle, but both Nico and Seamus are just a backdrop for his transformation (which they shouldn't be, they are major characters). Yes, the Guild story that focuses on masters' everyday life is amazing. But most of the other stuff is just the same as Book 4 vignettes in a more detailed form, which is definitely a step down from Book 4 story standarts.  This might not be a bad thing (i'd prefer proper literature to historical archives, but I do realize it's not the only way to do things): information on the setting and characters is more abundant and readily accessible to anyone interested. But at the same time it feels pre-digested, requiring readers no effort to piece the world together, removing the mystery. And once I was done fuming over Freikorpsland, in waltzed Misaki with her overwhelming Mary Sueness and tricked a bunch of high-end criminal generals (who apparently were born yesterday and inherited their general status) just as easily as Yamaziko pwnazores a throng of Illuminated. Right, very convincing. TL;DR: I'll take stories like "High Noone" or the Neil Henry one or the winner of the Rose Tattoo contest over any of the Book 4 stories (maybe with the exception of the Guild one). ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- ------------- rant/ Spoilers ahead.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And why exactly is the plot being advanced in the main book a bad thing...? It's not like books 3 and 4 didn't also advance the plot, with book 3 being almost nothing but plot advancement as it had no new pivotal characters to introduce like book 4 did. Also how is any of that even remotely fan-service(aside from the Levi and Alyce thing, which I'm pretty sure most people are more creeped out by than excited for. What's the opposite of fan-service?)? It's not like any of those things are particularly far-fetched, and would if anything be farfetched to not happen given their respective circumstances. Angel eyes shooting at Lilith is something you'd expect to happen in the middle of climactic fight between the two subfactions. What else would Toshiro be leading through the quarantine zone other than zombies? Why wouldn't Levi be talking to him, especially considering they're both such important characters fate-wise. And there was about as much character development as there has been in previous books. And now you're complaining that a story developed 1 character more than others(one of whom is getting their own story soon anyways) and with less going on than the other stories. Basically every faction story from all the books has mostly focused on 1-3 master(s) over others. As for the Misaki thing, the generals were in their position because they were sycophants who just did whatever the Oyabun told them to. That's why they were named generals in the first place, because the Oyabun was an incompetent leader who just wanted unquestionable loyalty. As for the Yamaziko thing, she would even be able to kill them in game. Remember that they were wounded, and that things have to be scaled for game balance, so story characters are basically always stronger than their in game counterparts. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHammer Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 On 05/09/2017 at 8:06 PM, Fog said: That's what happens when I go by memory of a story I read three weeks ago! "Emancipation and universal suffrage" You didn't misremember 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeseron Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Please, sir, take my money and send book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkirk Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, Fog said: I got mad at that too. Also, he wasn't healing as his spiders dropped. I'll cop to this mistake. There's a tension between the needs of a narrative and the hard ruleset of the game. Trying to make the story something more than "AND HE FLIPS THE BLACK JOKER" can be challenging. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Honestly, if not for the Outcast thing I'd wonder if we were heading towards something of a factionless game with hiring pools defined more by keywords than traditional factions. Â I don't see that actually happening for a number of reasons, but it does seem like the fluff is trying very hard to free the game of some of its structure. Â Book 4 had a similar thing, with a lot of odd stories primarily about justifying hiring breaks (see McCabe selling Lucius statues and Sandeep visiting colleagues for reasons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edopersichetti Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Just finished reading the Guild story and I was like "What the...?" Moving onto Rezzers while trying to erase that from my brain. EDIT: the Rezzers story was truly excellent. Well-written, full of action, and with an interesting plot. And it was useful to advance the storyline with some details - and what details, at that! So McMourning lost his cover, finally. Wonder if that will mean him losing his dual-faction status? Perhaps in the next errata or in a Malifaux 2.5? I always loved the idea of fluff and storyline driving the game, with models (including masters) being adjusted to reflect that. I think it might even become a viable expansion route for Malifaux! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3gion Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ ... Saying it now: the following is a personal opinion on the book, and nothing else.  Sorry, not buying the Arcanist story at all. Malifaux, Through the Breach and Chronicles had characters of color for a good while now, and I don't recall any racial hate toward them in the fluff. I actually thought that was the point - a way to get more representation in the character pool while carefully dancing around real life issues (kind of like with religion - there are some mentions of it, and room for thought and imagination, but no specifics. Another thing this reminds me of is the Taelor story in the third book: "You want to work in the mine? Sure, whatever. Don't care if you're a woman: if you can handle the work - do it"). I liked it that way. And the reveal of the Abyssinian faction for The Other Side only deepened my beliefs - it is an African nation that is highly advanced and obviously influencial (they have giant killing machines, they have to be). And their advancement could not have happened in the last, like, twenty years - it definitely took centuries. BUT now you are telling me that racism against black people is totally an issue, that lynching is a thing and so on. And why? Just to have a plot twist of Toni betraying Ramos. Sorry, but this is stupid. Maybe there was slavery of, say, native Australians or inhabitants of some islands, but, with Abyssinia being a thing and the general tone of the other fluff, I still don't buy racism in the Malifaux world (racism as in "you look different, therefore you are inferior"). To me, this story was a way for writers to say "hey, look how politically sensitive and respectful we are! ...all of a sudden..." Please, don't. I would really appreciate it if you kept politics out of my escapism.  Also, did Zoraida hit her head on her hut's ceiling or something? I did not really imagine her being this incompetent. I'm interested to see where the Neverborn storyline goes, but the story itself I didn't really like. Especially the big reveal, which had ZERO hints at prior - it just comes out of nowhere. "The great and powerful Zoraida has been deceived! The witch who literally weaves fate has been played like a small child! How???!" - "Dunno, magic an' stuff." Wooow. Deus ex machina much.  Also, it is hard for me to believe that various Outcasts, who are used to not trusting people and being independent, simply agree to stick together from now on. Some of them - sure, why not: Von Schill, Parker, maybe Tara... Maybe Viks. But all of them? Without any harsh words, and arguments, and egotistical reasonings? I find it hard to believe. But whatever - I can suspend my disbelief on this. The above points - not so much.  Overall... I kind of liked the Guild story, I really enjoyed the Ressers story. The other ones I have not read yet... I do not like where Marlow takes Malifaux - from the age of heroes to the age of civilization. But that is inevitable, I guess, - the dialogue between Perdita and Kitchener in the third book was quite an illustration to this (great story, by the way). I liked some of the new models, but not nearly enough to be excited about the new wave. In general, I think that "Broken Promises" is a viable name for this book=\ And that makes me really sad. I got into Malifaux because of its setting and stories, and now I see the things I liked about them gradually fall apart:( I really hope the next releases will do better for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkirk Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 - - - - - - - - - Usual caveat about this being my opinion, I don't speak for Wyrd, even though I wrote this story. I don't really have much more information than the rest of you, and what I do have is covered by NDAs that may or may not pertain to this discussion. Cool? The only thing I'll say about this is that it's my belief that things inside Malifaux are different than they are outside the Breach. The Guild only cares about power, and if you can wield that power, they don't care about your race, creed, religion, sexual identity, hair style, musical preferences, stance on cannibalism, etc, et al. So while there's a kind of universal suffrage inside the Breach, the countries outside the Breach are still doing all sorts of racist stuff, and the Guild tolerates it because, again, power. As long as you do what they say, they're not going to interfere. Until, that is, interfering can somehow get them something that they want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3gion Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 56 minutes ago, Malkirk said: - - - - - - - - - Usual caveat about this being my opinion, I don't speak for Wyrd, even though I wrote this story. I don't really have much more information than the rest of you, and what I do have is covered by NDAs that may or may not pertain to this discussion. Cool? The only thing I'll say about this is that it's my belief that things inside Malifaux are different than they are outside the Breach. The Guild only cares about power, and if you can wield that power, they don't care about your race, creed, religion, sexual identity, hair style, musical preferences, stance on cannibalism, etc, et al. So while there's a kind of universal suffrage inside the Breach, the countries outside the Breach are still doing all sorts of racist stuff, and the Guild tolerates it because, again, power. As long as you do what they say, they're not going to interfere. Until, that is, interfering can somehow get them something that they want. Thank you for answering, and sorry if I was too negative - didn't want to insult anyone working on the fluff, I'm just frustrated at inconsistencies that, to me, subjectively, seem contrived and jarring. Regarding NDAs - totally cool. I still think there would be mentions of racism in the fluff if it was an issue. I cannot imagine people simply forgetting about their beliefs and prejudices, just because they are in another world now. Somewhere, somehow, stuff like this would still show up. But no - no mentions of it before this particular story. I can get a lot of potential conflicts in the world of Malifaux, on both sides of the breach: nationalistic ("You dirty French frog-eaters/Eastern barbarians/etc."), social ("You dirty moneybags/filthy plebeans/etc."), political ("We, the Guild, are strong, and you, native Americans/Indians/whatever, are not, and also your traditions are weird, so screw you"), downright Nitzschean ("We, the Resurrectionists/the Arcanists/whatever, shall rule over the lesser men!") and so on. Racism based on looks - sorry, I just can't. The cognitive dissonance is too strong. And, in my personal taste, it's better to dance around certain issues or adapt them for the purposes of your story (see wizard fascism in "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows") than putting them in the middle of the existing storyline out of nowhere. Just a personal preference. I could get behind the story, if the motivation was different. For example: Toni's father had a valuable piece of land/a beautiful wife/whatever, that someone powerful in the town wanted. Or he insulted someone rich, because he was always an honest man and sometimes let his tongue get the better of him. After that, the father was framed and murdered. And the Governor-General offered Toni, say, a decree about a death sentence for corruption within all of the Guild's eschelons, or something like that. Still game-changing for society, and does not require hamfisting into the existing lore. Again, sorry for being harsh in my original post. Just... you know. Had to let it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkirk Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 - - - - - - - Oh, no offense taken. You're asking solid questions, and I don't really have answers. Remember that cultural prejudice is pretty much identical to racial prejudice, just the difference in culture is more visibly apparent. As far as looking at historical inconsistencies (how is there slavery if Abyssinia is a thing?) well, I feel like Malifaux doesn't take a lot of that into account right now. I feel like that's all I can comfortably say. I'd rather Wyrd tackle these issues head on and address them, rather than dancing around or creating some kind of substitution (I'm racist against purple people!) but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3gion Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Malkirk said: - - - - - - - Oh, no offense taken. You're asking solid questions, and I don't really have answers. Remember that cultural prejudice is pretty much identical to racial prejudice, just the difference in culture is more visibly apparent. As far as looking at historical inconsistencies (how is there slavery if Abyssinia is a thing?) well, I feel like Malifaux doesn't take a lot of that into account right now. I feel like that's all I can comfortably say. I'd rather Wyrd tackle these issues head on and address them, rather than dancing around or creating some kind of substitution (I'm racist against purple people!) but that's just me. Okay then. Thank you for understanding. Just to clarify: I have nothing against raising heavy subjects in supposedly entertainment-type media, be it board games, videogames, comics or whatever. Just need them to be justified within the world. So, "racism against purple people" (or green people, aka Gremlins) actually sits better with me. (Not sure right now how I would feel about the Gremlins example, but that would depend on the specific story.) As for dancing around... In my opinion, it is better just to include a variety of characters without pointing fingers at the fact of inclusion, which Malifaux has been doing for quite a while now. This also works for me. I'm not saying that pointing fingers was necessarily the intention, but that's how it seemed to me. I guess I will have to wait for more fluff and see how things work out. And read the rest of the book in the meantime)  P.S.: just happened to stumble onto the word "fascism" somewhere on Twitter and thought that I owe another apology, for grammatical errors=\ Not my first language, not the words I use often. Edited September 15, 2017 by L3gion Added some stuff to say everything I wanted in one post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 But there is racism in the game world before this story. This is certainly a very overt example, but it's not exactly new. Just look at Ironsides' fluff: "The daughter of escaped slaves" is literally how it starts. That means that slavery based on race was present in the game world within the last thirty years at a minimum, from that sentence alone. Lines like "[t]he Guild's decision to uphold the horrific local laws of its member countries" also point to this issue. These are certainly not the only examples; it's just a matter of how explicit things are in the text. Yes, the Guild is certainly more accepting of different people, but that doesn't mean that everywhere in the world is going on the same way. I'm confused why you're totally okay with discrimination on things like nationality, socio-economics, and political affiliations, but skin-color discrimination is so far out there as to provide cognitive dissonance that makes the story totally unbelievable. If there was a story where a character was suddenly a total ass to a German, would you jump up and say "hold on now, I haven't seen any German discrimination so far, this is totally unbelievable!"? In this example, the game world is literally building on what was established -- slavery and racism in the US -- and Toni is using that as a justification for making a choice. That, though, feels shoehorned in to you. I guess Wyrd could have, conversely, been dealing with racism regularly to make you feel more okay with that... but you said you don't want that either. You'd rather Wyrd dance around certain issues. Well, actually, you're okay with them tackling discrimination, so long as it's not based on race. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3gion Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Redbeard said: But there is racism in the game world before this story. This is certainly a very overt example, but it's not exactly new. Just look at Ironsides' fluff: "The daughter of escaped slaves" is literally how it starts. That means that slavery based on race was present in the game world within the last thirty years at a minimum, from that sentence alone. Lines like "[t]he Guild's decision to uphold the horrific local laws of its member countries" also point to this issue. These are certainly not the only examples; it's just a matter of how explicit things are in the text. Yes, the Guild is certainly more accepting of different people, but that doesn't mean that everywhere in the world is going on the same way. I'm confused why you're totally okay with discrimination on things like nationality, socio-economics, and political affiliations, but skin-color discrimination is so far out there as to provide cognitive dissonance that makes the story totally unbelievable. If there was a story where a character was suddenly a total ass to a German, would you jump up and say "hold on now, I haven't seen any German discrimination so far, this is totally unbelievable!"? In this example, the game world is literally building on what was established -- slavery and racism in the US -- and Toni is using that as a justification for making a choice. That, though, feels shoehorned in to you. I guess Wyrd could have, conversely, been dealing with racism regularly to make you feel more okay with that... but you said you don't want that either. You'd rather Wyrd dance around certain issues. Well, actually, you're okay with them tackling discrimination, so long as it's not based on race. First thing first: I'm not totally okay with discrimination=\\) Just putting this out there. As for the rest of your post... Hm. You do raise valid points. Apparently I don't remember the lore as well as I thought. And I probably did not correlate the word "slaves" with racism in my mind when reading Toni's description. Again, there are characters of all kinds of nationalities in the fluff, and racial issue does not come up there. I mean, look at Neil Henry's story in the Chronicles - there's plenty of material for this kind of stuff there, but there was none. I can get political and cultural differences and conflicts based on them, because they come up far more often and because they are expected in a melting pot of the frontier. I pretty much expect right proper English gentlemen to be asses to French people, or pompous "progressive" members of the Guild to be dismissive of, say, Indians (hi, Sandeep). And, in my mind, this is a different kind of discrimination from racial hatred. I may very well be wrong here, and I am well aware that no kind of discrimination is more acceptable than the other - that's just my subjective perception. So, the Arcanist story sort of caught me off guard here: Toni makes a pretty damn significant decision, one that can affect hundreds of people, one that goes against her principles, based on something I didn't even remember about her. It felt forced when I read it, and it still feels forced now (though a bit less so now that you brought up the examples from fluff). Again: black people are badasses here! They have killer robots and stuff! How the hell are there black slaves?! Abyssinia aside, there was magic on Earth - I think even various "barbaric" tribes had something to teach to the "civilized" countries, and something to put against their military. Someone like Neil Henry works like a slave not because of skin color, but because that's how his life turned - the Guild screws workers indiscriminately... And so... I could get the justification of racism being "his people have weird customs", "they worship different deities" and such. I could get more pragmatic stuff, like "he has something we want" or "he acted sorta bad toward us, let's punish him". Bad people are bad, and in Malifaux (and Earthside as well) bad things happen. But the justification for the murder of Toni's father was that he simply was black. That's it - just because he's black. Just... can't... buy it. Sorry. The point is not what I want or don't want - a lot of times I don't know what I want. I do not demand anything from Wyrd. I only know that some stuff I consume I like, and some stuff I don't, and I try to analyze it and find out why, to various degrees of effect. Maybe I am not clear when I try to describe it; sorry about that... This story I did not like. I liked the quiet inclusion of all sorts of characters in the lore, and I didn't like it when Wyrd decided it still needs to show that those characters really were different. But they totally aren't. But they kind of are, hence the issue in question. But... So many but's. I don't like stuff forced into something where I feel it doesn't belong, that's all, I guess. And I also don't like real life stuff in my fantasy (see a ton of crappy fantasy, where characters talk and act exactly like people in the real world), but I'm OK with its adaptation for worldbuilding purposes (see wizard fascism and "racism against purple people" - @Malkirk, I am so using this phrase in all future discussions on similar subjects:) ). Again: personal preferences that I apparently struggle to describe properly... And a strong enough dislike to justify writing about it on this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 In real history the Ethiopian Empire (aka Abyssinia) was a power in Africa until just before WWII, while most of the rest of the continent was colonised and exploited by the European powers. I don't think it's inconceivable that Malifaux Abyssinia wouldn't care if there was slave trade in other parts of Africa. Africa is after all a huge place with a plethora ethnic groups that in many cases didn't like each other any more than the ethnic groups of Europe (the source of all out world wars so far ) liked each other. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Yeah, the map we saw on the TOS kickstarter video showed Abyssinia as about twice as big as its real world counterpart (now Ethiopia), but still just a tiny fraction of Africa. And historically speaking, just like in Europe (and basically every other continent too) a lot of African countries don't exactly get along super great. I have no doubt Abyssinia has a few neighbors they give the side eye to at the very least. I don't know if it'll come up (and doubt it'd be 1:1), but in real-world time this isn't much after the two Boer Wars finished up too so a bit of chaos South of them could totally happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkirk Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Africa is big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Redbeard said: But there is racism in the game world before this story. This is certainly a very overt example, but it's not exactly new. Just look at Ironsides' fluff: "The daughter of escaped slaves" is literally how it starts. That means that slavery based on race was present in the game world within the last thirty years at a minimum, from that sentence alone. Slavery =/ racism. In history  slaves  were of different colours and nations, including Europeans even in XIX century. Same goes for slavers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merchant Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 The important issue is, why wasn't Perdita asking out hoffman? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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