Gnomezilla Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 8 hours ago, trikk said: I don't want a one top competitive list. But I want to see how our top lists works when played versus other factions top lists and masters played by good players because right now we're pretty behind which I realized after I went from Guild to Hamelin. I fear all three of you already talk with one another and that there are no others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Gnomezilla said: I fear all three of you already talk with one another and that there are no others. There are no other what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I think she is concerned that besides the three of you (and I assume Travis and Duncan, who both abandoned Guild for Nova) really aren't competitive guild players to do that "how our top lists works when played versus other factions top lists and masters played by good players" part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 But for most of us, tbh, its not tournament results that worry me, it is how they will play on my table that makes the difference to me. How well top players play guild simply won't effect my enjoyment of the game in the same way the rest of us struggling (as seen on logfaux (but please don't hit me with another validity of data argument unless we have a better source)) to play even games against our friends does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropolous Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Duncan is back in the fold now, he's made at least one list discussion post in AWP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, entropolous said: Duncan is back in the fold now, he's made at least one list discussion post in AWP. Guild is a jealous lover, it won't accept him back. :-) At least not without reeducation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: But for most of us, tbh, its not tournament results that worry me, it is how they will play on my table that makes the difference to me. How well top players play guild simply won't effect my enjoyment of the game in the same way the rest of us struggling (as seen on logfaux (but please don't hit me with another validity of data argument unless we have a better source)) to play even games against our friends does. I don't consider logfaux to be valid data. I had a pretty good run with Guild but no results in logfaux. Probably a lot of other players do. I think if the top will struggle then the bottom will also struggle so when discussing power levels and balance I usually look at the top players. Its quite hard to attribute results to skill difference. I do think its possible to win with Guild but sometimes its just a way more uphill battle than all those Hamelins and Sandeeps have because they forgive mistakes a lot more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, trikk said: I do think its possible to win with Guild but sometimes its just a way more uphill battle than all those Hamelins and Sandeeps have because they forgive mistakes a lot more All the doom and gloom in the Guild forum at the beginning of the year and the lack of Guild at bigger tournaments made me a Guild player for the last year -and I think I'll continue to be one next year as well, with all the new toys^^ I still think that Guild is not a bad faction, and after a year it's hard for me to explain the reason for the bad reputation of the faction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, Tris said: All the doom and gloom in the Guild forum at the beginning of the year and the lack of Guild at bigger tournaments made me a Guild player for the last year -and I think I'll continue to be one next year as well, with all the new toys^^ I still think that Guild is not a bad faction, and after a year it's hard for me to explain the reason for the bad reputation of the faction? I think pre wave 5 Guild had a lot of issues because of lack of scheme runners and summoning. While GG18 might fix this, one of our best stake a claim master (Hoffman) got most of his counters neutered and we got Silurids/Gupps/Domadors with necropunks at our disposal so I think we might jump up the scale and LYM becomes doable. I also think its more of a master than faction balance issue. Some masters are just too good at everything which makes them look like tgere is a faction imbalance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, trikk said: I think pre wave 5 Guild had a lot of issues because of lack of scheme runners and summoning. While GG18 might fix this, one of our best stake a claim master (Hoffman) got most of his counters neutered and we got Silurids/Gupps/Domadors with necropunks at our disposal so I think we might jump up the scale and LYM becomes doable. I also think its more of a master than faction balance issue. 24 minutes ago, Tris said: All the doom and gloom in the Guild forum at the beginning of the year and the lack of Guild at bigger tournaments made me a Guild player for the last year -and I think I'll continue to be one next year as well, with all the new toys^^ I still think that Guild is not a bad faction, and after a year it's hard for me to explain the reason for the bad reputation of the faction? I was talking with friends last night, and thought of this, which I am curious to see if people will agree or disagree. With the rise of Hoffman and LJ due to the upgrades, the rise of Lucius due to the errata and upgrade, and the stagnancy of Nellie at the top, I suspect that we are going to see a faction with some really nice parity across the faction. Unfortunately, I think that means that we will still struggle overall compared to Sandeep, Hamelin, or Somer (and honestly probably some other masters who got really nice upgrades), but I don't feel like we have a weak master at this point. GG2018 has felt better for Perdita and Sonnia style masters than previously. Because of this I feel like for use non-tournament players who don't have to eat a steady diet of top master sandwiches we are in a really nice place right now, and I am excited for the next year of play. The only two masters I'm not sure about are McMourning and McCabe. I don't play McCabe, though I can see why people like him, so I can't really speak to how he will sit. Hes so versatile I don't think he will have any issues though. McMourning bringing beasts and academics is interesting, but if I play them it will be proxies, because I'm sure as hell not buying out of faction models for a master that in Faux 3.0 won't even be in the faction or factions I play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerHarris Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I'll admit that towards the end of last year, I felt like playing Guild meant having one hand tied behind my back. We couldn't really hold ground, we struggled with scheme markers and marker manipulation, and we didn't have a lot of the finesse plays that a lot of the other factions did. At the moment though, I'm the most excited I've been to play Guild since that first glorious tournament I took Lady Justice to. Between the upgrades and our new models the gaps have been filled in the lineups and I'm not worried about taking on anyone with anything. The Masters I've been getting very strong results with lately (Justice, Hoffman, Lucius, Sonnia) got even better, McMourning and Perdita have taken huge steps forward and I can't wait to break out Rollins Black (alt McCabe) again. Probably the most important part of this is Lucius' elevation - we have a schemer now who's a damn good support master too. I don't buy the worry about difficult matchups - there are ways to win any game, even one that looks tricky on paper, and one of the key things with Guild is to remind the opposition how much we can do. Sandeep is incredibly squishy; players around me are actually hesitant to drop him against Guild because we can reach him and kill him. Hamelin can have all the activations he likes but it doesn't help him when Sonnia blows all the rats away or ranged threat takes out the lynchpin models like Obedient Wretches and Stolen, or the Hoffbots heal up the one or two damage a turn he's able to put on them. And summoned Bayou Gremlins make Guild Guard look like bastions of invincibility. It's worth taking Trappers or Pistoleros or even Riflemen to deal with the weakened summons whilst the rest of your crew scores your points. I'm far too erratic to be a top player - I have events where I'm too rubbish to win the spoon, and others where I'll roll over ex-Masters winners. But Guild have a lot of toys worthy of respect on the top tables, and they're not all that annoyance Nellie Cochrane... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, PanzerHarris said: I'll admit that towards the end of last year, I felt like playing Guild meant having one hand tied behind my back. We couldn't really hold ground, we struggled with scheme markers and marker manipulation, and we didn't have a lot of the finesse plays that a lot of the other factions did. At the moment though, I'm the most excited I've been to play Guild since that first glorious tournament I took Lady Justice to. Between the upgrades and our new models the gaps have been filled in the lineups and I'm not worried about taking on anyone with anything. The Masters I've been getting very strong results with lately (Justice, Hoffman, Lucius, Sonnia) got even better, McMourning and Perdita have taken huge steps forward and I can't wait to break out Rollins Black (alt McCabe) again. Probably the most important part of this is Lucius' elevation - we have a schemer now who's a damn good support master too. I don't buy the worry about difficult matchups - there are ways to win any game, even one that looks tricky on paper, and one of the key things with Guild is to remind the opposition how much we can do. Sandeep is incredibly squishy; players around me are actually hesitant to drop him against Guild because we can reach him and kill him. Hamelin can have all the activations he likes but it doesn't help him when Sonnia blows all the rats away or ranged threat takes out the lynchpin models like Obedient Wretches and Stolen, or the Hoffbots heal up the one or two damage a turn he's able to put on them. And summoned Bayou Gremlins make Guild Guard look like bastions of invincibility. It's worth taking Trappers or Pistoleros or even Riflemen to deal with the weakened summons whilst the rest of your crew scores your points. I'm far too erratic to be a top player - I have events where I'm too rubbish to win the spoon, and others where I'll roll over ex-Masters winners. But Guild have a lot of toys worthy of respect on the top tables, and they're not all that annoyance Nellie Cochrane... I honestly wouldn`t call Sandeep squishy. With Arcane Shield, 12 Wds, Impossible to Wound and Soulstone and an action with heal I don`t think he`s squishy. I don`t think a good Hamelin will let you blow up anything with Sonnia that easily. It always comes down to player mistakes and game plans but I have to disagree that master selection doesn`t have an impact. I do however agree that we`re in a better spot post Wave 5 than pre Wave 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerHarris Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 If I want Sandeep dead I don't find it too hard to accomplish - there are much more difficult Masters in the game to kill. He looks tough on paper but having played with and against him, he really isn't. That said, I'm not trying to push particular strategies on anyone. I just wanted to make the point that we have an answer to anything. Guild are not the pushovers or laughing stock we maybe used to be. And we certainly shouldn't be worried about our abilities on the top tables. Those are just fine thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 It's up to us guild scrubs to start representing then. Now that McMourning can hire swampy beasts to do schemes (and a few newish models being pretty good at placing markers) we can't say we don't scheme well anymore. I wonder if we will ever sail up to the most popular faction where you see half the lists at the top being guild. I'll do my best to bash some heads in with gg18. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerHarris Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 That's why I'm testing GG18 so hard. I don't want us left in the cold again... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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