Clarification about "type of actions" and how it works

[TeddyBear]

Hello again, 

this afternoon in my Group has arisen a doubt..

can a model with Flying ignoring models during a charge action? someone says yes, others no.. so i ask you..

I find this old topic but i don't understand well 

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/107796-flying-models/

(apparently yes)

But i find also this:

 

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/121903-comprehensive-look-at-flight-and-incorporeal-mechanics/

(so, no??)

 

Secondly i would like to ask you:

On Jack's "drowning ijustice" upgrade there is this ability, "Death by Drowning" After declaring a Tactical Action other than Penance (including Actions such as Walk, Charge, *etc) this model immediately suffers 2 damage which may not be reduced. This model suffers 2 damage whenever it fails a Simple Duel.

 

What type of actions are Walks and Charges? Thay are also considering Tactical or Tactical and what else? Chargé is also a moving action? What it means *etc?  Are there other type of generic tactical action like charge and walk?? or with ect means all others tactical action (where they are specified like tacticals)???

Thanks again!! =)

 

Edit. please to be moved in "Malifaux Rules Discussion" my mistake        

 

 

 

 

[Ludvig]

An action with an opposed duel is an attack. All other actions are tactical actions. There is a list of the general tactical actions available to all models in rhe game, it's in he base rulebook, can't remember the page but it's where you will find walk, charge, interact, defensive stance etc. 

Any action that says "move model" is a move so you can charge over other models if you have flying or incorporeal. A push is my action that says push. Flying models still cannot declare a charge when engaged however since that is another stipulation on charges that needs to be considered even if you are flying.

What other types of actions were you referring to?

[TeddyBear]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

An action with an opposed duel is an attack. All other actions are tactical actions. There is a list of the general tactical actions available to all models in rhe game, it's in he base rulebook, can't remember the page but it's where you will find walk, charge, interact, defensive stance etc. 

So, when a model takes drowning ijustice upgrade (for not takes damages) can only attack jack or another models?

 

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Any action that says "move model" is a move so you can charge over other models if you have flying or incorporeal. A push is my action that says push. Flying models still cannot declare a charge when engaged however since that is another stipulation on charges that needs to be considered even if you are Flying.

Please where i can find the rule about Flying models and charge over other models?

And why here:

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/121903-comprehensive-look-at-flight-and-incorporeal-mechanics/

they say, no??

 

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

What other types of actions were you referring to?

I find all them on pag 38 of big rulebook..many thanks Ludvig!! 

[Ludvig]

2 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

So, when a model takes drowning ijustice upgrade (for not takes damages) can only attack jack or another models?

 

Please where i can find the rule about Flying models and charge over other models?

 

I find all them on pag 38 of big rulebook..many thanks Ludvig!! 

Yes, a walk is a tactical.

There is no specific rule for flyers charging over someone, you need to put it together from the rules involved. First of all you need to be able to declare the charge so you need line of sight (since you need to target the model) and you can't be engaged. Then you perform the move part of the action and as the flying rules say that you can ignore all models and terrain during a move and the charge action says "move" it means you get to ignore all models while doing the move. You still need to be able to stop and attack at the end.

[TeddyBear]

11 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Yes, a walk is a tactical.

There is no specific rule for flyers charging over someone, you need to put it together from the rules involved. First of all you need to be able to declare the charge so you need line of sight (since you need to target the model) and you can't be engaged. Then you perform the move part of the action and as the flying rules say that you can ignore all models and terrain during a move and the charge action says "move" it means you get to ignore all models while doing the move. You still need to be able to stop and attack at the end.

Last thing please, if an attack have a tn is considered a tactical or no? (because it is also an opposing duel but it is also a simple duel..)

[Ludvig]

6 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

Last thing please, if an attack have a tn is considered a tactical or no? (because it is also an opposing duel but it is also a simple duel..)

It's an attack. If therw is an opposed duel it's an attack. Most acions are listed right on the cards so ou can actually see which attacks a model has since it says so in small text on the back of the card. I know of one or two cards from the first book that don't properly list the actions they grant the model but almost all of them list attacks and tacticals separately on the back.

[santaclaws01]

As for why he was saying no to ignoring models during a charge, it's because he was wrong. Simple as that.

[TeddyBear]

10 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

As for why he was saying no to ignoring models during a charge, it's because he was wrong. Simple as that.

Ah ok, i don't know why..but often i take for granted all that is written in rules clarification section 

if i want to re-writing correctly Flying and incorporeal mechanics:

 

Fall Damage:

•    YES: Flight ignores fall damage

•    NO: Incorporeal does not ignore fall damage

Ignore Models During Moving (Charge is a moving action):

•    YES: Flight ignores/is ignored

•    YES: Incorporeal ignores/is ignored 

Ignore Terrain During Moving (Charge is a moving action):

•    Yes: Flight ignores/is ignored

•    YES: Incorporeal ignores/is ignored

Ignore Models During Push:

•    NO: Flight does not ignore/is ignored

•    YES: Incorporeal ignores/is ignored 

Ignore Terrain During Push:

•    NO: Flight does not ignore/is ignored

•    YES: Incorporeal ignores/is ignored 

 

[santaclaws01]

No. Flight ignores terrain during a charge as well. Why wouldn't it?

[TeddyBear]

Because i knew (for example) that with a Flying model with wk 6, ( at 2" from a build 3" tall) can going through the build but he have to add 2" + 3"  to get on top of the build..

[Adran]

Flight

A model; with Flight is a model that when it moves can ignore terrain or other models. So during a charge it can treat the board as if it is empty along its path. 

BUT, and this is often the arguement people get confused on, You can not declare a charge whilst you are engaged.  Some people incorrectly assume that because during its charge it ignores other models, they can charge whilst engaged. Or that they can leave engagement without disengaging strikes. These aren't true because at the time you declare a charge or attempt to leave engagement, you aren't yet moving so can't ignore the models. 

I wouldn't automatically trust the information in a question in the rules forum. The most popular answer (so the one you would see first) points out the original post was wrong. 

If you end your move on a different elevation to that which you start you have to allow for that in your movement, but "Flying" over something does not cost movement because you ignore it as you move. This does led to a few strange cases, if you have walk 4 and flight, you can fly over a Ht 5 wall that is 1" thick (because you ignore it), but you can't land on top of it (because you look at the difference in Ht you have moved, 5 and add that to the horizontal distance and find that number is over your walk of 4, so is too far)

So for your example, he can fly past the building 4" from the starting wall and land on the ground at the same height, but if he lands on top of the building he can only go 1 " from the starting wall. 

Movement, be it a charge or a walk, behave the same for flight an incorporeal, they both get to ignore intervening models and terrain. 

 

Tactical actions. 

There are a large number of general tactical actions in the rule book, such as walk, charge, focus, interact, defensive stance. Several models have other tactical action on their cards. Normally in the section labelled tactical actions.  All of these actions would mean you would suffer 2 damage if you were under drowning injustice. 

The quick test is does the Action have an opposed duel ( does it give a RST stats) If it does, it is an attack, if it doesn't it is a tactical action. 

The drowning injustice does not stop you attacking who you like, it just mattes when you try and do a tactical action. 

And attack actions with a target number are not simple duels. They are opposed duels with an extra requirement to suceed. Attempting a lure (An attack with a TN,)and failing would not get you to suffer extra damage from drowning injustice because it is not a simple duel. 

[TeddyBear]

Thanks Adran!

[WWHSD]

15 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

No. Flight ignores terrain during a charge as well. Why wouldn't it?

Just to clarify a bit:

Flight ignores terrain and models during the charge but it doesn't allow you to ignore ignore them to declare the charge (same as Incorpreal).  If LoS is obstructed by a model or terrain the charge cannot be declared.

[santaclaws01]

9 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Just to clarify a bit:

Flight ignores terrain and models during the charge but it doesn't allow you to ignore ignore them to declare the charge (same as Incorpreal).  If LoS is obstructed by a model or terrain the charge cannot be declared.

Yup. Doesn't change when you can declare a charge, just how you can move when charging.