July 2017 Errata

[trikk]

9 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

With 1/3/4 damage in her only attack action? Hardly.

It took me three turns, 3 activations with Howard Langston and one with Mech Rider to kill Seamus.

I never said she`s going to kill him herself in a 1 v 1. 

Nikodemus summed it up pretty well.

[santaclaws01]

5 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

With 1/3/4 damage in her only attack action? Hardly.

It took me three turns, 3 activations with Howard Langston and one with Mech Rider to kill Seamus.

Executioner can have 3-4 attacks with either min damage 4 or 5 depending on if it has Debt or it's (0) upgrade and getting fast from Nellie. Peacekeeper can have 3-4 attacks depending on it's position with min damage 5. Burt with Debt can get 4 attacks at min damage 4. Bishop can have between 4 and 6 attacks with min damage 4, or he can just keep Seamus paralyzed all game (because there's almost no way he's beating an Ml 7 vs his Df 4 attack). Nellie doesn't do the fighting herself, she makes her crew fight better.

[Gnomezilla]

Can't I just sic a fast Ml7 double positive to damage swarm on him?  Or too much chance of him weaseling out of it with soulstone prevention?

[Hot4Perdita]

49 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Executioner can have 3-4 attacks with either min damage 4 or 5 depending on if it has Debt or it's (0) upgrade and getting fast from Nellie. Peacekeeper can have 3-4 attacks depending on it's position with min damage 5. Burt with Debt can get 4 attacks at min damage 4. Bishop can have between 4 and 6 attacks with min damage 4, or he can just keep Seamus paralyzed all game (because there's almost no way he's beating an Ml 7 vs his Df 4 attack). Nellie doesn't do the fighting herself, she makes her crew fight better.

I don't remember seeing a Burt or Bishop in the Guild. Are they mercenaries? If so, I don't think they can attach Guild upgrades if it's not their faction.

i just looked at Nellies stats and upgrades. I didn't see anywhere on them that she can give out fast. 

[Hot4Perdita]

34 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Can't I just sic a fast Ml7 double positive to damage swarm on him?  Or too much chance of him weaseling out of it with soulstone prevention?

Or his annoying hat trick.

[Bakunin]

30 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I don't remember seeing a Burt or Bishop in the Guild. Are they mercenaries? If so, I don't think they can attach Guild upgrades if it's not their faction.

i just looked at Nellies stats and upgrades. I didn't see anywhere on them that she can give out fast. 

Bishop I know is a merc, and I believe Burt is as well. You can only attach upgrades belonging to the faction you declared, so if you went Guild and hired a merc enforcer you can only attach Guild upgrades to it.

[santaclaws01]

32 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I don't remember seeing a Burt or Bishop in the Guild. Are they mercenaries? If so, I don't think they can attach Guild upgrades if it's not their faction.

i just looked at Nellies stats and upgrades. I didn't see anywhere on them that she can give out fast. 

Upgrades are based on the faction of the crew, not the model. Nellie gives fast with the Delegation ability. Any 6 at range 8 and can either heal or place a scheme marker in based contact for 1 evidence.

[Gnomezilla]

44 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Or his annoying hat trick.

I hate that hat. Except for the time I snagged it with one of my own models instead of letting him pick it back up. Then it was hilarious. Watcher flew far away with the hat clutched in its tiny metal claws.

[Hot4Perdita]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Upgrades are based on the faction of the crew, not the model. Nellie gives fast with the Delegation ability. Any 6 at range 8 and can either heal or place a scheme marker in based contact for 1 evidence.

Got it. Didn't read it close enough. Thanks.

[spooky_squirrel]

2 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Can't I just sic a fast Ml7 double positive to damage swarm on him?  Or too much chance of him weaseling out of it with soulstone prevention?

Have a Metal Gamin headbutt a Rail Golem twice (Protection of Metal gets involved too), then Power Loop in the Ca 8 and go to town with the Locomotion. Can the Golem take Debt? I think so.. Debt to the Guild on that key turn and get a chance at another Tome for keeping the steam going and bonus damage on all those free attacks. Don't forget to Power Loop in the Ml 7...

[Durza]

11 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Have a Metal Gamin headbutt a Rail Golem twice (Protection of Metal gets involved too), then Power Loop in the Ca 8 and go to town with the Locomotion. Can the Golem take Debt? I think so.. Debt to the Guild on that key turn and get a chance at another Tome for keeping the steam going and bonus damage on all those free attacks. Don't forget to Power Loop in the Ml 7...

The target has to be engaged with a friendly model to get the burning off the metal gamin, so that doesn't work sadly. The looping in Ml7 and Ca8 is always amazing though.

[Ratty]

18 hours ago, Mason said:

It was definitely that way in our meta.

Casual games were fine-ish, but people still groaned and tried not to play the demon player. Tournaments were a nightmare and would often be 75% or more demons because nothing else could really compete.

It drove most of the fantasy players in our area into 40k, and the game never really recovered.

I was working in a shop at the time and it was so obvious... We had a fairly decent tournament crowd... I ended up with a group of friends that played Warmachine.

[Math Mathonwy]

20 hours ago, aquenaton said:

Well, as said before, the wind gamins are not very good for punching, but they are vey good at scheme running.

Name a 4SS model that is better at punching. From any Faction.

Because I'm drawing a blank. I guess you could put an argument for Piglets due to their Triggers. If you count shooting, then I guess Fire Gamin and maybe Guild Autopsies. But I'd say that Wind Gamin punch extremely well for their cost.

[Hot4Perdita]

25 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Name a 4SS model that is better at punching. From any Faction.

Because I'm drawing a blank. I guess you could put an argument for Piglets due to their Triggers. If you count shooting, then I guess Fire Gamin and maybe Guild Autopsies. But I'd say that Wind Gamin punch extremely well for their cost.

Guild hounds are Ml 5 and 3 ss.

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Guild hounds are Ml 5 and 3 ss.

Guild hounds don`t have 4 attacks with moderate 3 each turn and don`t have armor.

[Hot4Perdita]

4 minutes ago, trikk said:

Guild hounds don`t have 4 attacks with moderate 3 each turn and don`t have armor.

You'll be lucky to get moderate,  if you ever happen to win a duel with Ml 4. You'll most likely always be at a negative in damage if you win a duel. I think I'd rather have a metal gamin in most situations. You can park them, go defensive twice without discarding, and hold a table quarter or objective. I'll leave the fighting to the better models.

[trikk]

7 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

You'll be lucky to get moderate,  if you ever happen to win a duel with Ml 4. You'll most likely always be at a negative in damage if you win a duel. I think I'd rather have a metal gamin in most situations. You can park them, go defensive twice without discarding, and hold a table quarter or objective. I'll leave the fighting to the better models.

2 Attacks at Ml5 vs 4 attacks at Ml4 I will take the Ml4 ones every day. Because you have a harder time hitting one attack you have a lot better potential to flip at least 1 moderate on the negative with 4 chances. You are also a lot better at draining your opponents hand.

Getting a moderate with 1 out of two hits is lucky. Getting a moderate in 2 out of 4 hits isn`t that lucky.

[Math Mathonwy]

49 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Guild hounds are Ml 5 and 3 ss.

But only half as many attacks. If choosing between four attacks at Ml4 and two attacks at Ml5, one should definitely go with the former (unless something horrid happens when you miss, naturally, like Riposte from Lady J or something).

[WWHSD]

6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Name a 4SS model that is better at punching. From any Faction.

Because I'm drawing a blank. I guess you could put an argument for Piglets due to their Triggers. If you count shooting, then I guess Fire Gamin and maybe Guild Autopsies. But I'd say that Wind Gamin punch extremely well for their cost.

The first time I put a Wind Gamin on the table I intended to flit around avoiding combat and using them to score Interference. I ended up leaping next to a Coppelious that was down a couple of wounds  and a second model that I can't remember so that I could win the quadrant by engaging all of the models my opponent had in it. 

Having passed the Horror test with two AP remaining I decided, "what the hell, I might as well try to do a little damage before they kill the Gamin next turn". The Wind Gamin ended up missing twice and hitting for a minimum and a severe (I think I cheated in the severe card) and removed Coppelious. Sure, Coppelious was the perfect target having Df 4 but that event made me take a second look at the Wind Gamin's attack. 

The Wind Gamin seems like it usually ends up landing at least one of it's four attacks even against targets with Df 5 or 6. Even when it doesn't it usually has my opponent cheating once or twice.

[raderk]

4ss heavy hitter?

Changeling

[-Loki-]

2 hours ago, raderk said:

4ss heavy hitter?

Changeling

They also entirely depend on what they're hitting.

[catbat07]

2 hours ago, raderk said:

4ss heavy hitter?

Changeling

Sort of. While I love changelings to bits, I always feel that they rely on your crew to much.

[Bengt]

Guild Hounds also have 1/3/4, just like the Wind Gamin. They can also charge for (1) and have critical strike. Sure the charge is situational but then they are cheaper and have higher Ml.

I definitely think they are high in the tiny-beater-bracket.  

[TeddyBear]

But, new cards??

[Hot4Perdita]

Good morning. Ok, so I have a new perspective on errata after last night. I was not playing Malifaux, but a different game. First, I am new to gaming overall, as I just started the hobby last year. I'm pretty much new to all games. Read my previous posts regarding my disdain for the Malifaux errata to get my sentiment on the errata so far.

So, last night, in this particular game, I played against an alien Tau army with my robotic terminator army. To make a long story short, the way his list was concocted made it impossible to even compete, and the game was not a pleasurable experience at all. I don't even see how he could have even enjoyed it being so one sided. Essentially, over half of his army, which way outnumbered mine (I think his units are way underpriced points wise, my similar units costing more points with same stats), was set up in the atmosphere. So all my units deployed before he even had one unit on the table. Then he sets his up on the table way out of range of mine. We roll off, he goes first, which doesn't matter since I can't get to him anyway turn one. He drops in his units from the sky, advances his other units from far away to get in range of his long range buffs, and eliminates half my army and main character in one turn with all the indefensible buffs his army has. When I counter on the next turn, all I manage to kill is one measly drone. His character can pass damage off, his units can run away from a charge, he can overwatch with a third of his units against one charge, and his buffs go off nearly automatically (namely hitting on 2+ and re rolling ones). By turn three, I was down to one unit left of a 2000 point army, and he had lost a total of maybe 10 models worth a cost of maybe 40 points.

Im new at this game, I never expected to win, but at least wanted to have fun. With an army list like that, there is no fun even for an expert. There is not a counter or defense for it. That's a truly unbalanced army in that game, at least the way the list was concocted. 

So, now I can appreciate errata that could fix a problem like that. If there is a crew in Malifaux like that, I would support a change. I still believe though that an 18" Austringer, a boxed Papa Loco, or a summon on a 6 with a mech rider will not create an undefeatable crew. There's plenty of ways to defeat those. But if there were a crew in Malifaux that could decimate your crew by turn 3 with absolutely no defense to stop it, I would now support errata to fix it. I personally have never seen that in Malifaux yet. I have played strong crews, but after analysis, they could be stopped with the right tactics. So, now though, I can see what many of you were trying to explain before. I get it now. Thanks.