Fixed Crew Taunements

[Voodoo Specter]

While I am a big fan of how crew construction works in Malifaux I have been putting some thought into running a fixed crew 50ss taunement as it would make for some interesting games. Mainly I think it would allow you to legitimately crack out some models that don't see much play due to them not being specialised enough things like; Young Nephlim go from being almost never picked to being decent flankers who can run schemes if needed due to their decent movement and flight but can get stuck into combat when needed. Friekorpsmen can scheme run/hold points and Oiran can be a lure piece who can hold locations.

A big concern in this format is summoners with the possiblity of limiting the summoming pool of Masters to only being able to summon models that are already in their crew list + their totems.

 

I want to know what you guys think would go from collecting dust on your shelf to being a solid choice in a fixed crew format or if the whole concept would detract from the game too much to make it worth playing.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Voodoo Specter said:

While I am a big fan of how crew construction works in Malifaux I have been putting some thought into running a fixed crew 50ss taunement as it would make for some interesting games. Mainly I think it would allow you to legitimately crack out some models that don't see much play due to them not being specialised enough things like; Young Nephlim go from being almost never picked to being decent flankers who can run schemes if needed due to their decent movement and flight but can get stuck into combat when needed. Friekorpsmen can scheme run/hold points and Oiran can be a lure piece who can hold locations.

Counter proposal:  Require each player to declare a faction, and then the tournament organizer has to all of the pairings before the players construct their crews to be used to used for all three rounds.  In other words, since you're already making the schemes and strategies for each of the three rounds known, also make the opposing faction for the three rounds known.

 

[Ludvig]

I don't think I would use any of my less used models. I think most people would rely just as much or more on their usual auto-includes.

It can still be a good sollution if you have trouble with players taking too long to finish games since it will likely speed things up.

Interesting idea for the summon limit. I take you mean that as long as one model is in your list you can summon any number of that model? It would probably chafe for a few summoners but most should be able to adapt.

Would you release scheme pools ahead of the event or after everyone has locked down their lists?

[Bengt]

Most staple models are strong in more than one area or very strong killers (since that is always useful) so fixed list will in my opinion only result in less model variety. Niche models that sometimes see play in specific pools will be left at home.

[mythicFOX]

Fixed lists mean players need to pay from a much smaller master pool, as many masters have strategies they struggle with.  You'll find lists get really generic really quickly.

If you want to see more varied and unusual crew selection here's what I'd do;

First make sure you're using the full range of strategies, not just three rounds of 'stand loads of models in a place'.  It's easy to repeat the same crew when you play;  Extraction, Guard the Stash, and Reconnoiter at an event.   I'd recommend going with something like; Guard the Stash, Squatters Rights, and Collect the Bounty, to make sure you're covering the full span of strategy types.  That should help mean no one crew is good for all three rounds.

Next I'd recommend publishing your objectives well in advance of your event.  This will mean players will have a chance to look at objectives and think what they need to play them, rather than turn up with what they always use and hope that'll work.

The times when TO's have done this are the times when I've had to paint something a bit out of the ordinary for an event.

 

[spect_spidey]

I am new to the game, but I think there is the players to consider. How veteran are the players in your area? Do you have several new players? If you have a lot of new players in your area, then I think a fixed crew is a great idea. In my opinion, it allows for newer players to be competitive with what will probably be a lower model count to build their crews from than the veterans. Locking the veterans into just one list I think would also help improve their game. It would allow them to work with one crew in several situations where they may not be optimal. Which should increase their skills for when things are not going well. At the same time it allows the newer players to be more competitive as it could somewhat level the playing field.

 

My local area has a lot of new players. We had a tournament over the weekend with 10 participants. The majority of the people ran pretty much the same master and crew every game. I think maybe two players really were able to change up their lists drastically. One of which won the tournament. Some of the the players were even using loaner crews from the Henchman who was running the tournament. Due to my limited model count, I was only able to switch out one model from my crew. I played the Von Schill box with Lazarus and Angel Eyes replaced the specialist for two games. 

[Adran]

Rather than Fixed lists I would suggest fixed pool. Cloussau does a 45 ss event with 70ss pool as a beginner friendly event, that works well for both beginners and experienced players.

I feel it helps beginners more than a fixed list because they aren't learning the game as a fixed list so will hopefully experiment with adapting 

Back to the original point, I think you will see less variety in a fixed list than in normal play. 

And in respone to Spec_spidey,  I don't actually think that limiting the crew options hinders veteran players as much as you think it might. From the outside it looks like it does, but the handicap of owning fewer models will still be there if you think that is a large issue. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

We had a fixed list tournament recently in my playgroup. It was a tournament mainly for newer and less experienced players, who usually have very limited model pools. Veterans were allowed to take part provided they will play something they are not accustomed with. I think everyone enjoyed it.

Having said that, the idea of fixed crew tournament without other restrictions like those we had does not seem very appealing to me. I agree with others that it will compel people to play the "on average strongest" list, leaving specialized models at home.

[Voodoo Specter]

The plan was to run each of the strats make sure the numberd schemes dont repeat and the suited schemes don't have the same combination in any game. This is not going to be for new players but for reasonably experienced players in my local group just as another type of format from the norm.  They all have a decent selection to build their 50ss from but thought it would be interesting to see how they deal with an all commers type list.

Contemplating making 2 of the scenarios really extream on the killy/scheme based strats with the other 2 a mix of both.

 

[Adran]

The most extreme set of 3 strategies is probably Reckoning, Reconnoitre and Stake a claim. (Or at least these are the 3 that most warp my list building) But even then I'd probably build a list that was  good at 2, and accept I'd struggle for the third. Not sure which I'd put in as the fourth, probably Head hunter or collect the bounty. 

But it wouldn't tempt me to pick up models I haven't used recently. I'm not sure what would (And I play a really wide range of models already) unless you start doing things like imposing rare limits across the event. But that only works if you all have decently large collections. 

 

As an Idea, I'd probably play in it if it co-incided with a day I can get a pass to play, but I'd rather play in a format with list build, so if it was on the same day as a different event, I'd be more interested in the other event. But I'm not your target player, so take with a pinch of salt. 

[Tokapondora]

I've had one small tournament like this and it turned into staple central. Granted, we didn't know the schemes in advance but still. The players that picked summoners naturally did very well, the other players had a lot of more awkward schemes. The general feedback was a resounding "Meh". Like Adran said, an SS pool from which you can deploy/summon is a lot more engaging and will see you a lot more creativity and risktaking in list building.

[Dogmantra]

I think a better solution to put newer players with smaller collections is actually to go the other way, rather than a fixed list or pool (which imo still benefits people with big collections, for example someone with only a few boxes will probably have to double up on certain models out of necessity just to hit the limit) is to have incredibly lax proxy/lending rules. Encouraging lending models to newer players and allowing them to play with simple proxies - even just a standup with a crude drawing and a name written on it - means that all the new players have access to exactly the same models as the veterans. You do of course sacrifice some of the visual aspect, but I think if your focus is on a tournament where money invested is less of an advantage, then that should be a secondary concern.

 

Otherwise if you do really want to change the format up, might I suggest just not running a tournament? A participation day is a good way to get people involved, match players up for a few games but instead of giving out the prize kit to top 3, raffle it off or award prizes for things like best painted & best opponent.

 

 

EDIT: I realise this is mostly aimed towards the discussion of newer players which the OP wasn't really about. I do recommend changing the format up if you want to see a bigger variety in models. Have you played Henchman Hardcore? The very strict limits can change the power dynamic quite a bit in that format. Or try some story encounters maybe?

[Voodoo Specter]

Thanks for all the responses guy and I have got to say I agree with Dogmantra when he says to have lax proxy/lending rules when it comes to new players I think it really helps to give them the chance to try out things they are thinking of buying against experienced players.

I also want to be clear when I say taunement this is going to be at my local club but will be several games scored like a taunement so I shouldn't have too much of a problem getting players together. However if it's not going to be an interesting format I might just run it under standard rules.