Adepticon 2017 Masters: Table 2 Round 5

[Nemikan]

 

Adepticon Master’s Battle Report 
Table 2 Round 5
Ryan Michel vs. Wiktor Szafranski

At the bottom I explain the Pere combo for those who don’t know what it is or how it works. It didn’t occur in our game because of how actively I tried to avoid it, but heavily forced my movement and the interactions during the game. I’ve played this specific crew multiple times (and Wiktor playing it), so going into it I knew exactly what to watch out for (sadly it didn’t help).

Collect the Bounty, Flank Deployment 
Claim Jump, Accusation!, Leave Your Mark, Tail 'em, Inspection 

9 models
Lilith - Aether Connection, Rapid growth, Beckon Malifaux
Crew: 2 Freikorp Trappers, 4 Young Nephalim, Cherub, Terror Tot
Schemes: Inspection and Accusation!  

13 models
Zipp: Upgrade was the SS discard one, forget the rest
Crew: 2x Iron Skeeters, Pere Ravage, Francois Lacroix, Raphael Lacroix, Earl, 6 Stuffed Pigs
Schemes: Inspection and Claim Jump

Deployment:
Trappers deployed in either corner 4 inches from the edge (for Inspection ) and spread out the rest of my models around the center of my deployment zone. My primary goal in deployment and movement turn 1 was to stop Pere from wreaking havoc on my crew. See the bottom of this article for a detailed explanation of how the Pere combo works, and the effects of it going off.

He deployed all his models close to the deployment line all around the center. He kept all his models out of LOS of the trappers.

I don’t remember all the damage flips on each pig, but every pig blows up for 1-4 unresistable damage, and some of them also charged for even more damage. At the bottom you can read about the Stuffed Pigs in more depth and their effect on the game.

Turn 1:
1. Opponent activated all his pigs first, 1 at a time each walking forward, making sure to stay out of los of trappers. This easily gave him massive activation control letting his whole crew to take actions after mine while I had no ability to respond.
2. I move all my non-trapper models ~6-8 inches forward, doing my best to stay back and spread out to avoid pere and the pigs.
3. Trappers go and have no targets to shoot so each go double defensive.

4. Both of his skeeters do the same thing, they hop on board raph/fans towards my trappers on either side of the board, each skeeter giving fast (from the Earl tome), then Raph and Frans both go reckless, and shoot at my trappers, raph kills one with a dumb luck trigger, Raph has 3 hp left. (Note they just moved and shot at my trappers with 3 ap each, a skeeter walk + 1 walk, then reckless)
Pere walks twice and hides behind a building

Turn 2:  I win initiative and go first with Lilith.
1.    My goal was to kill Pere, he has 7 hp so it will take a minimum of 2 attacks from Lilith (or charge through terrain + severe dmg to kill him). Since he was out of range of Tangle Shadow from my starting location, I had to walk then charge at Pere (going through the building). Lilith kills him with two attacks, needing to cheat one card in ensure killing him. Lilith takes 4 dmg from his explosive demise, SS to dmg prevent flipping - I take 2 dmg.
2.    He activates Francois who goes reckless and shoots my trapper, I cheat the first flip, dodging it, he flips high on the next shot with the dumb luck trigger which kills the trapper and leaves Frans at 3-4 hp.
3.    I sprint my tot, flip a mask for a 2nd walk and engage Raph, I attack with my last ap and get a straight flip I cheat the dmg to kill Raphael, growing into a Young Neph. Now I have 4 cards left in hand. I drop trees directly next to Lilith blocking los to her from Zipp and Raphael.
4.    He activates Zipp, walks up and melees Lilith, I cheat a 13 hoping to avoid the attack, but he has one as well so it goes off. He gets severe dealing 5 dmg. I ss to prevent get a weak and take 3 dmg but Zipp aura costs me a card. At this point I’m down to 2 cards in hand - a 12 and 8. He attacks again, I cheat a 12 in hopes he doesn’t have another high card, but he does and it goes off. Ends up flipping severe again for 5 damage. I burn my last card and SS to prevent and flip weak taking 3 damage - Lilith goes down to 4 hp. He triggers the place effect moving her 5 inches away towards the center of the board, putting her between 2 stuffed pigs, 1 and 2 inches respectively between Lilith and the two pigs

At this point Lilith has a very high chance of dying. The stuffed pig damage isn’t something that’s resistable, and due to Zipps aura I can’t even SS to prevent the damage. Thus these silly 2ss models are easily killing my Master with almost no ability to prevent it. I do my best to stop it by attempting to push and Paralyze one of the two pigs away from Lilith, so she can live through the turn.

5.    I activate a Young Nephilim charging one of the pigs, goal is to trigger the push and paralyze it so i can get another turn out of Lilith, but having no cards in hand - I miss both of my attacks him cheating cards in to stop them from going through.
6.    He activates a pig and engages a different Young Neph in the center of the board.
7.    I charge the 2nd pig by Lilith, miss both my attacks again.
8.    He activates the pig by Lilith, missing his attacks then explode himself dealing 2 dmg, black blood from Lilith triggers killing the other pig who dies from it exploding for 3 dmg killing Lilith. Stones available but unable to use them since I have no cards in hand.
9.    The rest of the turn is the other two Young Neph each killed a pig - one taking the damage and the other pushing the pig away paralyzing it so that the Cherub could walk then shoot it at range to avoid taking the explosion dmg on my Young Nephilim. The iron skeeters running into the corners scoring for interference, Earl in the top corner with an Iron Skeeter, Zipp nearby. He drops scheme marks with earl dragged up with Zipp) and Francois.
10.    I score Collect the Bounty 2-1, (pigs killed Lilith) and he scores interference and claim jump

Turn 3:
At the beginning of the turn, there is 1 pig left in play between the center and Frans, 3 of my youngs are fairly low hp, (1-3 health left), 2 still have 6+ wounds. At this point I'm in serious trouble. Due to the stuffed pigs - I’m stuck in bad positions going into this turn (away from the corners due to spreading out, then being forced to kill them) and his models have higher threat range than mine (reckless giving a potential walk, and then rng attack with a total of roughly 15 inches and 2 shots). His schemes are now revealed, displaying that It would have been in my favor to focus down all the models in one corner, however at this point I can’t do much to stop it.

1.    I win initiative and run up to his Iron Skeeter with my Young Neph (the one who grew) to Earl and interact giving him the Accused condition..
2.    He activates Zipp attacks that young nephilim who is engaged with Earl, placing him 6 inches away so Earl is no longer engaged, then Earl activates removing accused and drops a scheme marker.
3.    I move all my remaining models (2 young neph and a cherub) towards Frans, but the one stuffed pig is engaging my closest young nephilim. The Nephilim attacks the pig, triggers the push and paralyzes it.
4.    The Iron Skeeter on the bottom moves into position for Interference and drops a scheme marker for Claim Jump.
5.    Frans moves towards my young neph (~8 inches away in a straight line) but the neph is hiding behind a rock out of LOS.
6.    He scores Collect the Bounty, inspection and claim jump

Turn 4:
1.    I win initiative but due to terrain on the bottom my young nephilims at full hp does not have LOS to Frans, so it takes me two walks to get to him him hoping I can flip / cheat well and survive the turn.
2.    He activates the pig, and engages my 2nd young nephilim who was moving up towards Frans.
3.    I activate that nephilim, kill the pig then walk toward Frans in charge range next turn 
4.    Frans and kills the young neph I engaged him with.
5.    My other young Nephilim and the cherub move up, hoping to next turn kill Frans for a point before he kills me.
6.    He scores for Collect the Bounty, Interference and Claim Jump

Turn 5:
1.    My young neph charges Frans, but my attacks fail.
2.    Frans goes reckless (2 hp left) and kills my last young nephilim 
3.    I move then shoot with the Cherub and miss my attack.
4.    He scores for Collect the Bounty, Interference and Claim Jump

Wiktor wins 9-1. Playing a solid game like always. Wiktor being one of the best players in our Chicago meta, usually the tournaments are won between him and one other player. I think this was one of my better games against him, even though the score was so drastically in his favor.

In summary:
1.    Pere was such a huge threat I had to basically sacrifice Lilith to kill him.
2.    The stuffed pigs were a major problem for a number of reasons:
    a. They consumed close to all of my AP on turn 2, while dealing significant damage to those models.
    b. They granted him activation control and while engaging my models keeping them stuck in a location. Those two reasons then allowed his key models to be completely unopposed.
3.    Reckless and the Iron Skeeters allowed significant movement and AP advantage allowing great positioning that prevented me from charging his important models (The young nephilims have a 10 inch threat range), while still allowing them to shoot my models. The combination of the Fast and Reckless (since reckless doesn’t just give fast) allows his important models to have 4 AP after moving a free 12 inches. The Skeeters granting 12 points of movement + fast (so another 5 inches) are really what end up allowing Pere to become so effective.
4.    In hindsight i should have focused more units towards Francois earlier, and ignored trying to save lilith. If I guessed that he had inspection I could potentially been in better positioning in order to focus one of the corners better, but the pigs were the major thing that impeded my potential movement.
5.    Don’t play Wiktor he’s too good

Stuffed Pigs:
Each pig has insane power at 2ss - they have a walk of 5 and have a neat AOE effect of exploding for 1-4 unresistable damage in addition to a melee attack that can deal damage. They can also lock you into engagement - which guarantees the engaged model can’t charge that turn even if their MI is only on a 4. 

Engagement with the pigs: If you do get engaged, it ends up being best to just kill them. If you walk away they can just activate after you and either charge or walk back into engagement forcing you to take another test. You can’t shoot them (due to randomization) so you’re forced to either charge in with another model (meaning you’re taking the exploding damage on two models) or just attack with the model currently engaging them.

Disengaging: A good player such as Wiktor will cheat the disengaging strike when needed burning an AP on your expensive models (Hannah is a great example). The worst is having to cheat first against pigs for disengaging strikes when you need to get an attack off that turn. You now either have to burn a fairly high card to guarantee being able to walk away or run the risk of them cheating a card to prevent you from walking away. Him cheating a 13 to stop your 10ss model from doing anything useful this turn (solely walking once) is hardly a waste.

In my specific game, I can’t out range their explosion ever since the Young Nephilim have an engagement range of 1 inch. Because of this, every Young Nephilim who killed a pig (6 ss models, with 7 hp each) each took at minimum 1 and 4 damage without the damage they also took from charges.

Pere combo:
1. Earl activates discarding a tome to give tomes to all constructs / leaders in range. 
Optional on the situation:
1.    An Iron Skeeter activates applying Poorly Handled Explosives on Pere
2.    Zipp walks forward twice, shoots a model and places them 6 inches away towards another model.
2. Iron skeeter uses hop on board on Pere (giving fast), walks twice placing the back of Pere’s base 18 inches from the deployment zone, Pere gains fast due to the tome provided from Earl’s ability
3. Pere activates goes reckless (so 4 ap total) then walks 1-2 times  (wk 5 so 5-10 inches depending on where he needs to get), and uses Oopies 2 times (discarding 2 6+ tomes) causing a TN 13 Defense duel to everyone within 6" or they they take 5 damage. After that Oopies kills him triggering his 4 dmg explosion to all models within 2 inches (unresistable).

Pere can move a guaranteed  deployment zone size ( so lets say 6 inches) + 12 + 10 inches and still have 2 ap available. That’s the back of his base being 28 inches upfield while having 2 AP. 

So how many models can he hit?
The board is 36 inches wide. His ability Oopies is a radius of 6 inches + his 40mm base size + 6 inches diameter so ~13.5 inches that his bubble can hit. So when playing against this, each of your models must be at least 13 inches away from each other, or he can hit multiple models with his ability. The board is 36 inches wide, and on average I’ll run ~7 models, so 36 / 7 = ~5. This means best case scenario, my models spread out evenly will be 5 inches away from each other.  This is assuming a horizontal plane (which the board isn’t) so the numbers aren’t guaranteed but I’m not taking into account terrain (causes impassible locations so more clumping of models, blocking/dense terrain potentially allowing smaller distances) and bases being ~1 inch or larger so you’re most likely going to be forced to be grouped even more than that.

This guarantees that Pere is always going to be able to hit at minimum 2 models on the board with his 6 inch AOE, most likely 3 models if Zipp places once 6 inches away from its original location. There is also a VERY high chance two of those models (probably the one Zipp places) will be within 5 inches of each other which is in range of Pere’s guaranteed unresistable dmg of 4 from his explosive demise, and an additional 4 dmg if they used Poorly Handled Explosives.

[edopersichetti]

Pere combo = nasty! A bit too aggressive for my liking, but certainly effective...

[Mutter]

Thanks for the report, and even more so for the explanation of the 'Ravage bomb'. I've faced Pere once, and even in a Zipp crew, but my opponent didn't use the Earl/skeeter synergies you describe here.

Nasty ...

[Math Mathonwy]

10 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Thanks for the report, and even more so for the explanation of the 'Ravage bomb'. I've faced Pere once, and even in a Zipp crew, but my opponent didn't use the Earl/skeeter synergies you describe here.

Nasty ...

It's a bit weird why Pere with PHE and Skeeter-transport hasn't been a bigger thing since it has been talked about a lot on the Gremlin forums when Zipp came out and then periodically again when Zipp has been talked about. And it's just such an obvious thing to do.

[Adran]

Just out of interest, Did you look at the 4 corners and decide which of the 4 would give you the best terrain to separate your forces from LOS to each other to help protect against pere. Or alternatively force him to deploy in a corner with very little los Blocking to allow the trappers to do something?  You do appear to have suffered having to deploy first and having no effective LOS to large parts of his deployment, and yet no cover for your crew or Trappers. 

From what you wrote I think you were wrong to Charge Pere with lilith on the 2nd turn, because he wasn't going to be Skeetared and so be restricted in movement. ( I might be wrong, but it sounded like he was too far away to do anything turn 2

I would look to using wicked vines a lot, as a sorce of Ranged damage, and as a way to prevent a lot of the risks. 

and possibly if I was expecting this sort of trick, I would consider the Living blade because the 3" engagement makes Lilith a lot safer from the explosions. 

Looks strong, but fails against some crews such as Ramos, Tina, or Von Schill. And as a Marcus player getting 3 tomes in a hand is really not that common... but as an opponent you probably have to plan for them getting it. 

[Nemikan]

Adran:

The terrain was fairly symmetrical, mostly 1.5-2 inch square pieces scattered around the map. The corners were mostly open terrain specifically where you needed to be for pts. Im addition terrain only would have helped vs frans or for the trappers, the young nephs after frans tried using it but it actually hurt because it blocked charges.

As for pere he was close enough to walk then take 2 ranged attacks, or just walk twice and oppies once. If i left him alone and walked forward towards his models i would have been in a convient cluster for pere.

Wicked vines can work, but i dont have pushes for the dmg so id just be rooting and dealing 1 dmg. Thats not enough to handle this crew effectively. 

 

[Adran]

My plan on the wicked vines is not to damage him him, but to stop him walking. If you Had Wicked Vined pere turn 2, then he couldn't walk and attack at all. If gremlins push him to remove it, then he dies on 1 oopsie. An Illusionary forest between Lileth and Pere costs him at least 1 AP because he will need to walk twice to gt in range if you place it  by him, or twice to get LOS if you place it by Lilith, and depending on the board its possible he couldn't oopsie at all. (Since he is between 12 "and 13 ")

I might also have considered sprinting in a Tot to engage him and block his forward movement. It may well cost the tot his life, but it would have stopped pere hurting the rest of your crew. Save a High card to make the disengaging strike for as long as he is a threat to the rest of your crew and he can't do anything. And every time he hits the tot for damage thats another point off pere, and even 1 black blood and 1 reckless means only 1 oopsie before death. 

[Nemikan]

Zipp can also hit pere triggering his place effect, placing him 5 inches away which would actually get around all the ideas you just mentioned. If he was rooted he cant walk but would have had range.

[Adran]

51 minutes ago, Nemikan said:

Zipp can also hit pere triggering his place effect, placing him 5 inches away which would actually get around all the ideas you just mentioned. If he was rooted he cant walk but would have had range.

No He can't, its Enemy only. He could push him, but the tot should be blocking the best push route, and anyway you would then be able to control his final placement, and you would get to activate next. The other important part about the tot, is that now gives you a target in range for lilith to be able to tangle shadows to.

 

This is all hind-sight, and a lot of it may not have helped in the game you played, but I'm commenting to help people see possible counters in the future. It looks a strong combination that if you aren't expecting it will wreck havoc, but there are ways around it without having to build to counter. 

[Math Mathonwy]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

No He can't, its Enemy only.

Zipp's Up We Go -attack can affect friendlies (and be used to Place them). Unless I misunderstood something.

[wizuriel]

Zipp's blasting off again DF/WP trigger and Up we Go attack can only target/be triggered by enemy models. 

Also for Zipp's upgrade that forces you to discard to use a soul stone, iirc you must only spend the card to use the soul stone if able, if you're unable (ex you have no hand) I think you can just use SS like normal. 

edit: Though Zipp can still zap a friendly model and with the trigger move it up to 6" and then use his 0 to push a friendly up to 8" (though then you can push it 2" after that)

 

[Dogmantra]

Zipp can totally target friendlies with Up We Go! - "Place the target anywhere within 5" of its current position, not in terrain. Then, the target suffers 2/4/5 damage that may not be reduced." it's just not often a very good idea because of the nasty damage track, but Pere and Stuffies obviously don't care as much.

[Adran]

Sorry, I was sure it was place target enemy model. Looks like I was wrong. Ok, he can Place Pere.

 Wizurel is right that if you don't have the cards to discard then you can still use the soulstone because of the way the ability is worded you spend the stone and then you discard a card if able.