So where were the guild players at adepticon?

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, Tris said:

Also, you have to probably invest a high card every turn to keep the target boxed, as opposed to the maybe one face card when you try and put a damaging condition on it at one point in the game

To be fair you would usually need at least a few high cards to hit with attacks to remove the model. Don't forget that a wedding to Perdita does wonders for the marshal's morale so you might not need to spend too high cards if you went that route. Wp 8 or 10 depending on how bad you want it to stay is usually tough for most models to get through so your big challenge will be getting them in with the ca 5 and keeping the marshal alive.

[Tris]

9 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

To be fair you would usually need at least a few high cards to hit with attacks to remove the model. Don't forget that a wedding to Perdita does wonders for the marshal's morale so you might not need to spend too high cards if you went that route. Wp 8 or 10 depending on how bad you want it to stay is usually tough for most models to get through so your big challenge will be getting them in with the ca 5 and keeping the marshal alive.

True, it's just another thing to consider, besides the fact you guys stated before that the Marshal is pretty easy to kill.

[4thstringer]

The problem I am having with the DM currently is that I am seeing a lot of 1. Yasenori and 2. WP 6.  I play a lot against TT and Arcanist, and it feels rare to face a WP 5 in those crews.

[bertmac]

there is a lot of wp5 in arcanists but langston and joss are both 6.

captain and firestarter are both df6 wp5

[trikk]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

The problem I am having with the DM currently is that I am seeing a lot of 1. Yasenori and 2. WP 6.  I play a lot against TT and Arcanist, and it feels rare to face a WP 5 in those crews.

Wp6 is still doable without stubborn to be honest. I managed to catch and hold Kaeris for 3 turns.

[Ludvig]

I've caught Molly and kept her well hidden. Summoners seem to have trpuble just holsing onto their highest cards (I believe an austribger trigger helped in that game too) Even at wp 6 it puts stress o their hand because they haven't seen your red joker this turn and you might be holding it, ready to cheat into the duel. Or your highest card might be a 13 or 12 so they need to save a 13 or 12 of their own, etc. 

The main issue is still that they can just smack you like a pinata and get their model back if you aren't doing anything really sneaky like commanding andthen swapping places with Lucius or pushing with Perdy's nephilim or something.

[4thstringer]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:58 PM, Ludvig said:

If you're feeling adventurous you could even take Sam instead of the handler. He is theoretically good for killing things while they burn even if I haven't made it work more than once. The tricky part is that you are then relying on Sonnia to set them on fire (sorry for once more stating the obvious).

I usually prefer to use the handler so that anyone engaging Sonnia gets smacked by the big bad witch which heals her up (since aomething bad probably just charged her) and gives me cards for other parts of my crew to use. If you had the Loco buff on her from blasting turn 1 she can put some decent damage into someone in ml. Then put up her aura that does damage at the end of the turn (if I am the first player so it happens before the enemy ends burning it is vastly preferable). If you luck out and Sonnia or the handler kills her assailant you get a stalker that can activate and potentially put burning and damage enough to get another summon out there. This hasn't been tried in like master level tournaments or anything even close but I never run Sonnia against new players so they have been of about equal skill to me (according to me). 

I ended up trying it against a tt list with lucas.   I did abuela emissary sam frank child and sonnia.  I managed to place Sam in rapid fire range of lucas and put him on fire with the emissary.   My opponent chose to put the fire out,  fearing sonnia, rather than charging with mccabe.  That let me  drop debt and rapid fire into lucas, unhorsing him and eating all his stones.  He chose to send black betty after sonnia and move unused lucas into cover,  which let me rapid fire again to finish lucas off (spending stones fir plus flips) .

I soon after boxed betty and my opponent gave up(he had frame on betty,  which considering all my hench was bad news for me).  I'm not sure he should have given up.

[Ludvig]

4 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I ended up trying it against a tt list with lucas.   I did abuela emissary sam frank child and sonnia.  I managed to place Sam in rapid fire range of lucas and put him on fire with the emissary.   My opponent chose to put the fire out,  fearing sonnia, rather than charging with mccabe.  That let me  drop debt and rapid fire into lucas, unhorsing him and eating all his stones.  He chose to send black betty after sonnia and move unused lucas into cover,  which let me rapid fire again to finish lucas off (spending stones fir plus flips) .

I soon after boxed betty and my opponent gave up(he had frame on betty,  which considering all my hench was bad news for me).  I'm not sure he should have given up.

I would only consider giving up if I couldn't score at all so we were looking at 10-2 or something. As long as you can work the differential you should try to finish the game and score/deny points from an underdog position. If a model is buried at the end of the game it counts as killed so he had 2 secure VP on Betty as long as he could keep her buried (which I'm sure you would be willing to help with).

[trikk]

Doesn't Bete Noir laugh off Bury effects? She can unbury anytime something dies. Also if she dies while buried its 0 VP from FFM

[Myyrä]

On 5.4.2017 at 11:36 PM, Franchute said:

According to logfaux, under GG2017, Guild McMourning actually has a higher win rate than his ressers counterpart and he is the master with the highest rate among Guild too:

https://logfaux.com/dashboard/meta

I love Guild McMourning too.

If I had reported my guild McCabe games from the last year, he would be at the top of the win rate list in logfaux. The sample size is really too small.

[Tris]

14 minutes ago, trikk said:

Doesn't Bete Noir laugh off Bury effects? She can unbury anytime something dies. Also if she dies while buried its 0 VP from FFM

It was Ohaguro Bettari, since it's a TT McCabe crew

[Ludvig]

Not at all confusing to have several models named the same in different languages. They shouls do amodel named BlackBetty too

[trikk]

24 minutes ago, Tris said:

It was Ohaguro Bettari, since it's a TT McCabe crew

Doesn't really change the fact that its 0 points for FFM if you die buried

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, trikk said:

Doesn't really change the fact that its 0 points for FFM if you die buried

Silly me, I blame sleep deprivation. Confused it with bodyguard or something

[4thstringer]

5 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I would only consider giving up if I couldn't score at all so we were looking at 10-2 or something. As long as you can work the differential you should try to finish the game and score/deny points from an underdog position. If a model is buried at the end of the game it counts as killed so he had 2 secure VP on Betty as long as he could keep her buried (which I'm sure you would be willing to help with).

It was a casual night game and let us get a second one in(a five five Hoffman tie against the same list that I can count my misplays on both hands).   Worth it to me.   

[4thstringer]

5 hours ago, Myyrä said:

If I had reported my guild McCabe games from the last year, he would be at the top of the win rate list in logfaux. The sample size is really too small.

I've tracked my games since the new year in a spreadsheet.    Maybe I'll enter them abd see if I move the numbers significantly if it's a slow work day.

[Franchute]

8 hours ago, Myyrä said:

The sample size is really too small.

N=33 is not that terrible. After all, this is more less the sample size any OECD study works with. I am worried about the fact that maybe only 2 or 3 players reported the numbers for these 33 games. @RustAndTheCity said that he reported 19 of the 62 Guild McM games in logfaux. This suggests that it is likely that only few players report their games. We do need more data.

8 hours ago, Myyrä said:

If I had reported my guild McCabe games from the last year, he would be at the top of the win rate list in logfaux. 

 

3 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I've tracked my games since the new year in a spreadsheet.    Maybe I'll enter them abd see if I move the numbers significantly if it's a slow work day.

Yes, please guys, report all your games. This is highly valuable information.

[4thstringer]

1 minute ago, Franchute said:

N=33 is not that terrible. After all, this is more less the sample size any OECD study works with. I am worried about the fact that maybe only 2 or 3 players reported the numbers for these 33 games. @RustAndTheCity said that he reported 19 of the 62 Guild McM games in logfaux. This suggests that it is likely that only few players report their games. We do need more data.

 

Yes, please guys, report all your games. This is highly valuable information.

Just did it, moved guild up about 3-4% and put a little bit of hurt on Arcanists and TT.

[Myyrä]

1 minute ago, Franchute said:

N=33 is not that terrible. After all, this is more less the sample size any OECD study works with. I am worried about the fact that maybe only 2 or 3 players reported the numbers for these 33 games. @RustAndTheCity said that he reported 19 of the 62 Guild McM games in logfaux. This suggests that it is likely that only few players report their games. We do need more data.

It's also a problem with the quality of the data and not just quantity. The datapoints aren't really drawn from the same datasets.

[4thstringer]

Don't worry, I just entered 1 loss with mcmourning in. :-)

 

[4thstringer]

Is there a reason that the quality of players recording games would not be consistent amongst factions though?  While I don't think there is a way to see that they are representative samples, I don't see a reason that one faction would be substantially better than another at logfauxing.

[Myyrä]

2 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Is there a reason that the quality of players recording games would not be consistent amongst factions though?  While I don't think there is a way to see that they are representative samples, I don't see a reason that one faction would be substantially better than another at logfauxing.

The number of recorded games is so low for many masters, that they are likely to have come mostly from one or two players. The individual skill of those players relative to their meta would affect the results more than the master.

[4thstringer]

Just now, Myyrä said:

The number of recorded games is so low for many masters, that they are likely to have come mostly from one or two players. The individual skill of those players relative to their meta would affect the results more than the master.

I agree that the sample size is too low for individual masters. 

I'd say my numbers might skew things in an unfortunate manner.  I play in a pretty casual meta, none of us are tournament players, and when we have participated in tournaments we haven't done particularly well.  (I think our best result was in the top 10 at last years NOVA).

[Franchute]

Anyway, I do think logfaux is a great tool for the community. We should all keep on uploading our games.

10 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

The number of recorded games is so low for many masters, that they are likely to have come mostly from one or two players. 

If necessary, I offer myself to work a bit on the data to clean up the numbers for possible "player fixed effects" once more data will be gathered (in case @tactician would be interested).

[Franchute]

11 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I'd say my numbers might skew things in an unfortunate manner.  I play in a pretty casual meta, none of us are tournament players, and when we have participated in tournaments we haven't done particularly well.

We dont want these numbers to tell us something about the best players. They have to be useful for the average player.

14 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

(I think our best result was in the top 10 at last years NOVA).

I think top 10 at Nova is very good.