War game vault cards

[tomjoad]

Just now, Ergonomic Cat said:

I don't think this has had any impact at all on people having information available to them.  It has caused people to need to carry a printout, rather than a card, so it's created inconvenience.

Also, I think it's somewhat disingenuous to suggest that there haven't been a ton of threads about the actual impacts, but I understand you're trying to make a point.  However, I think that point would be better served with a legitimate discussion of why you feel that the errata method isn't the best way to tone down models, rather than a salty comment.  Also, realistically, given that there's little chance of adjusting the decision at this point, it would be more for future changes.

I have made that point many times and in many places. It is my hope that Wyrd will see this debacle as the final straw and not continue the policy of mass errata and return to Justin's errata-as-a-last-option concept. My faith in Wyrd has already been greatly eroded, as has my passion for the game; hopefully, that erosion will not continue.

[trikk]

I have a totally different opinion.

It wasn`t really a "huge errata" as a lot of the changes were cosmetics but I think in the right direction. The 0SS upgrade thing was getting messy (Nothing Beast being a prime example) and they changed 2 mediocre-bad masters into playable ones and as a Henchman, nothing annoys and repels players more than them showing up with Lucius, getting kicked in the groin 5 times, saying the game is stupid and unbalanced and going to play something else.

 

Basically if the errata had Leveticus and rats and the same thing with Wargame Vault would happen the result would be exactly the same because the size of the errata doesn`t matter that much

[tomjoad]

4 minutes ago, trikk said:

I have a totally different opinion.

It wasn`t really a "huge errata" as a lot of the changes were cosmetics but I think in the right direction. The 0SS upgrade thing was getting messy (Nothing Beast being a prime example) and they changed 2 mediocre-bad masters into playable ones and as a Henchman, nothing annoys and repels players more than them showing up with Lucius, getting kicked in the groin 5 times, saying the game is stupid and unbalanced and going to play something else.

 

Basically if the errata had Leveticus and rats and the same thing with Wargame Vault would happen the result would be exactly the same because the size of the errata doesn`t matter that much

I know my opinion is in the minority on this (which is why I was just being snarky before, rather than trying to have a full debate; I've had that debate, and nobody cares or changes their minds), and I don't expect Wyrd to change direction. I can still be a little hopeful, though, that they will. If they issue errata of this size every 6-12 months then I'll know this isn't the game for me, and I guess that's fine.

[koronuslight]

Getting back to the real topic at hand, I have lost all confidence in Wargame Vault after this. 

[Saduhem]

11 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

Getting back to the real topic at hand, I have lost all confidence in Wargame Vault after this. 

I feel the opposite way. Companies screw up, they're run by humans. The fact that they:

1 - Acknowledged the screw-up

2 - Took Full responsibility

3 - Made no excuses

4 - Specified that Wyrd was not in the least at fault

5 - Are sending 2 waves of replacements on their penny

6 - Giving us 10 bucks on top of that (Which should cover at least 1 more errata in the future)

7 - Inform me before I even complain and point out that no more effort is required on my part to keep the process going

8 - Answer me (on the first screw-up) on a Saturday evening way past work hours and NOT with a copy-paste response.

 

Really makes me see them as professionals that just had a bad (and short) streak.

Also, they will refund you immediately if you prefer not waiting. At this point I don't know what else can be expected of them. I can  only think of:

Have even more incredible customer support (which I find is impossible)

Never commit an error in their business (which I also find impossible)

 

If anything, I want to support these guys MORE.

[tomjoad]

Good for them trying to make it right, but a company screws up in a huge and public way and you want to give them MORE money? OK.

Also, what's the situation with overseas customers? I know the European and Aussie members of the community mention having to pay all kinds of import duties on this stuff; does that apply to the cards as well? Are they going to be charged for it again if they want the right cards?

[koronuslight]

1 minute ago, Saduhem said:

*everything you said*

I used to work in a printing house. Artwork, printing, cutting, packaging and shipping all kinds of printed items. It's basic skills work. 

Wyrd signed off on one version of the cards. Wargame Vault printed, cut, packaged and shipped out the wrong version. Twice. 

If someone did that where I used to work, they'd be fired. 

They screwed up, and badly. They HAVE TO try to save face and be extra polite and friendly now and offer everyone free stuff. Otherwise they lose possible future business. 

 

Just now, tomjoad said:

Good for them trying to make it right, but a company screws up in a huge and public way and you want to give them MORE money? OK.

Also, what's the situation with overseas customers? I know the European and Aussie members of the community mention having to pay all kinds of import duties on this stuff; does that apply to the cards as well? Are they going to be charged for it again if they want the right cards?

This guy gets it. 

[Saduhem]

Just now, tomjoad said:

Good for them trying to make it right, but a company screws up in a huge and public way and you want to give them MORE money? OK.

Also, what's the situation with overseas customers? I know the European and Aussie members of the community mention having to pay all kinds of import duties on this stuff; does that apply to the cards as well? Are they going to be charged for it again if they want the right cards?

All companies screw up. Hell, Amazon messed up more of my orders than WarGameVault ever will. 

They're bound to screw up. Assuming the opposite in a company's career in unreasonable. 

What makes a company stand apart from the others is the way the handle what comes after. 

[tomjoad]

2 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

All companies screw up. Hell, Amazon messed up more of my orders than WarGameVault ever will. 

They're bound to screw up. Assuming the opposite in a company's career in unreasonable. 

What makes a company stand apart from the others is the way the handle what comes after. 

Nobody ever said that no company can ever make a mistake ever no matter what. Nobody has come close to saying that. But you are saying that these guys have been fucking up bad for well over a month and do not come off as particularly competent right now, and your instinct is that they deserve MORE business than some company that hasn't done something this wild stupid? I mean, okay man. It's your money, I guess.

[trikk]

5 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

I used to work in a printing house. Artwork, printing, cutting, packaging and shipping all kinds of printed items. It's basic skills work. 

Wyrd signed off on one version of the cards. Wargame Vault printed, cut, packaged and shipped out the wrong version. Twice. 

If someone did that where I used to work, they'd be fired. 

They screwed up, and badly. They HAVE TO try to save face and be extra polite and friendly now and offer everyone free stuff. Otherwise they lose possible future business. 

 

This guy gets it. 

I don`t think that its that simple. I ordered the cards January 3rd and I have the errated cards. The issue was with the system as they had a check up with Wyrd and everything seemed to be correct.

[Saduhem]

5 minutes ago, tomjoad said:

Nobody ever said that no company can ever make a mistake ever no matter what. Nobody has come close to saying that. But you are saying that these guys having fucking up bad for well over a month now and do not come off as particularly competent right now, and your instinct is that they deserve MORE business than some company that hasn't done something this wild stupid? I mean, okay man. It's your money, I guess.

No. I'm saying that the way they treated me and the honesty with which they handled things is making me want to give them more money. I understand you are upset but, realistically, i cannot envision any other thing they could do to make up for the mistake.

Accept that it just happened, no one in the world can affect that. If you'd rather print your own, ask for the refund and seek different printing services. All errata cards are available on the website. 

If you think you can print the cards in a more cost efficient way, accept the refund and do so.

If you think you cannot get a better deal, accept the mistake and the free money.

Every customer was upset to see the wrong cards again. I understand. I also understand that the forum is a place to vent. But it's getting a little negative and it seems that, while negative comments are being supported, positive ones are being criticized.

We all handle our frustrations differently. My recommendation is to acknowledge that there is not a better way to handle this and that the email they sent out was, in the very least, honest and humble. 

[tomjoad]

1 minute ago, Saduhem said:

etc

I agree they are handling this as well as they could. It is the idea that you would now want to spend even more money on their products than you would have if they had just been competent that is shocking to me. This is a dumb debate. I'm sorry. I shouldn't care.

[Cadaverousbirth]

A company makes a big mistake and corrects it in a timely manner? I'm a happy customer and understand human error. A company makes huge mistakes TWICE after the error was "fixed"? They lose my business. 

If Amazon screws up more than one order then why are you still ordering from Amazon? As a fellow consumer that is insane. 

These cards are a luxury. I've opted to make my own and save my time and money. They don't look perfect, but it took me five minutes of work and I didn't have to wait weeks for the wrong cards. 

[koronuslight]

7 minutes ago, trikk said:

I don`t think that its that simple. I ordered the cards January 3rd and I have the errated cards. The issue was with the system as they had a check up with Wyrd and everything seemed to be correct.

Quality control is making sure the artwork on the signed proof matches the artwork coming out of the printer. Matches the artwork in the computer. 

It really is that simple. One pair of eyes could have solved this issue from the start. 

Measure twice, cut once. 

[Cadaverousbirth]

4 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

Quality control is making sure the artwork on the signed proof matches the artwork coming out of the printer. Matches the artwork in the computer. 

It really is that simple. One pair of eyes could have solved this issue from the start. 

Measure twice, cut once. 

I work in Quality and I can coorborate this completely. It isn't hard to make sure an error is fixed. I don't know their processes but I can tell you that if we find an error we watch it like hawks down the line to be sure it isn't repeated, or more errors pop up. Quality needs to be te #1 priority for a company to maintain customer relations. No copy pasted apology can make up for the inaction I've experience with this debacle. Yes, I'm saltier than a sailor on Lake Superior. 

[Parker Barrows]

Yeah, I got it too after I posted.

[Saduhem]

34 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said:

If Amazon screws up more than one order then why are you still ordering from Amazon? As a fellow consumer that is insane. 

Because no one else can offer me the same product for a comparable price and at my door the next day. I am sorry that you deem it "Insane", but even adding the replacement process, I still get the best price/product/time relationship.

Wyrd screwed up every nightmare crew box I ordered and I always had to get a missing piece or two, sometimes twice. This happened during big sales such as Black Friday or Gencon. I deemed it a foreseeable event and their customer service is some of the best I ever had (Shoutout to Amy from customer service. Wherever you are, you are awesome.)

No other company offers me a great miniature game, with high quality models, fluff, and customer service. I expect more screw-ups down the line but my history with Wyrd has taught me that the solution will always be prompt and reasonable.

Similarly, WarGameVault offer me, to the best of my knowledge, the best quality per price per unit I can get. The card stock alone is fantastic. I also find their customer service incredible. Just like I built a history of problems (sometimes requiring multiple replacement processes) with Wyrd with solutions I thought were more than reasonable, in the same way this teaches me that any foreseeable problems with WargGameVault will be handled in the best way possible.

So no, I am not insane.

[Cadaverousbirth]

We obviously have different standards about who gets our money. 

I haven't ever had a problem with Wyrd products, for the record, but if  I did I can confidently assume it would be corrected as soon as possible. I can make my own cards, but have gladly paid for the "real deal" because it isn't expensive and saves me effort. When a company lets me down twice there isn't a recompense that can make me give them more money. 

You can do whatever you want with your free cash, but don't tell me (and others) to not be mad when our time is wasted.*

*I did get my full refund quickly, so no money lost. Only time and trust. 

[Saduhem]

1 hour ago, Cadaverousbirth said:

We obviously have different standards about who gets our money. 

I haven't ever had a problem with Wyrd products, for the record, but if  I did I can confidently assume it would be corrected as soon as possible. I can make my own cards, but have gladly paid for the "real deal" because it isn't expensive and saves me effort. When a company lets me down twice there isn't a recompense that can make me give them more money. 

You can do whatever you want with your free cash, but don't tell me (and others) to not be mad when our time is wasted.*

*I did get my full refund quickly, so no money lost. Only time and trust. 

I assure you that I have no intention of telling you what to do with your money.

Now, following your argument of "if they messed up your order more than twice... you're insane if you keep using them", If you got 2 or 3 wrong orders from wyrd, would you abandon the game?

[Cadaverousbirth]

18 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I assure you that I have no intention of telling you what to do with your money.

Now, following your argument of "if they messed up your order more than twice... you're insane if you keep using them", If you got 2 or 3 wrong orders from wyrd, would you abandon the game?

If they corrected it...correctly...and in a timely manner without undo fuss there wouldn't be a problem. I would probably stop ordering from that specific retailer (LGS, ebayer, or Wyrd themselves) but I would still be confident in my purchase. 

Given the widespread and profound mess up that is currently happening...TWICE, I can no longer confidently shop wth WGV. 

[KrazyIvan]

4 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Wyrd screwed up every nightmare crew box I ordered and I always had to get a missing piece or two, sometimes twice. This happened during big sales such as Black Friday or Gencon. I deemed it a foreseeable event and their customer service is some of the best I ever had (Shoutout to Amy from customer service. Wherever you are, you are awesome.)

My to. A pair of Nightmare Tara boxes purchased at different times, but with the same packing sticker. Wyrd fixed it of course, and I'll still do business with them. Same as WGV. What other options are there, really, other than DIY or Wyrd doing more arsenal decks that'll provide me with a ton of cards I already have?

Don't want janky, DIY, replacements...WGY is currently the only game in town. Doesn't mean that I won't buy from them, but it does mean that I am playing other games while I wait for my cards. That, in turn, means that even after I get my errata cards I'll be playing less Malifaux because I'm playing other games.

[Durza]

Yeah I'm with Saduhem too, they have acknowledged their screw up and are taking steps to make it up, they haven't just taken your money and run.

[Von Woozle]

When I got the email saying they had screwed up the 2nd order I felt sorry for the owners as its quite a mistake and must be costing them enough.  Having printing options in Europe will go far to helping this situation taking so long to fix.   I may have the cards I ordered 2 months ago in a month, but half the time is in postage. 

Personally if I were going down the route of correcting balancing issues twice a year I'd conceder something like warroom.  

[ResserProfessor]

I do not think it is appropriate to refer to how upset many of us are as being "butt hurt." That phrase implies fault on our end. For instance, if I get tabled turn 2 and then complain about it, you might say I'm "butt hurt" implying that I played the game, had my chance, and lost. In this case, as a consumer, each of us has every right to be frustrated that our purchase has not been completed in a satisfactory manner. Maybe this is because I'm from a nation that "claims" (and this I personally doubt) that competition is important. The bottom line is this: I have every right as a paying customer to be frustrated that I paid for a product I have not received. I am patient. This has happened more than just this instance to me. And one way to decide the ebb and flow of economy as a consumer is to stop purchasing from a company that has let you down in the past. I do not have that option. I love this game, and as others have pointed out: we have no real other option in this manner to get errata cards for our game. The only other act we can do as paying customers is voice our opinion. Please do not try to belittle or deny us of that right. How else can we express to Wyrd that we are unhappy with WGV and their repeated performances? I acknowledge that they have apologized. But the fact of the matter remains: we have paid money for a product many of us are yet to receive (some of us have been through this more than once). We are not doing anything outside of the norm by voicing or frustration. 

[Nathan Caroland]

Welp, enough teeth gnashing and wailing I think.