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Not happy with the latest update (#20)


Kobayashi

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Disclaimer: I know I am only one humble opinion and I also know that I don't have to deal with the day to day business the Wyrd head honhos does, but I still want to sound on.

 

I am talking about the latest quip here, specifically

[...] By canceling a few other (so far unannounced) projects, [....]

... and now I'm sad and curious. Sad because The Other Side does not appeal to me and there could have been mmore Wyrd stuff that would be speaking to me; curious about the stuff that could have been. I'm well aware that you can't speak, but that was a mean tease... (though I understand that you need to explain how you came to shifting the goals).

However what I really can't understand is that they are canceled, which for me translates in, you don't believe in these additional projects :s

 

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It makes sense to me, each project they put out is a huge time and monetary investment.  It's a shame that they would have to cancel some projects in order to get the Kickstarter rolling again but it makes sense to put priority on projects that are in the open now.  Hopefully those future projects are just shelved for now and might get back on track after TOS brings in some sweet dough.

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1 hour ago, Kobayashi said:

However what I really can't understand is that they are canceled, which for me translates in, you don't believe in these additional projects :s

 

Different company, but Blizzard has had a ton of success and they've cancelled several big projects because despite all the work they did on it, they felt it wasn't up to par. Wyrd may very well feel the same about these other projects and I would rather then put out a few solid products then bunch of poorer designed ones.

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The cancelled projects could be anything. They could be expansions to Jetpack Unicorn or Evil baby orphanage, they could be Twised Alternate sets, they could be a new board game. 

Basically, there's every chance the cancelled project might not have appealed to you either. So there's no reason to get sad about missing out on something if you never knew what it was anyway.

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For every smile there is a frown.

It's worth noting that just because something was cancelled doesn't mean it won't ever happen. Wyrd seems to have just reallocated resources. I'm sure, in a perfect world, they would have everything they needed to do as many projects in whatever way they wanted at whatever time they wanted.

All will be well, @Kobayashi. I'm sure Wyrd has plenty of fun-tastic things for 2017 that aren't The Other Side. 

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The way I read it, the kickstarter was structured to fund the masters and production testing of the units, not the free models. Every 50k or so a new pair of units were funded, which would pay for printing the masters, doing test cuts, casts and assemblies to get them right before a major production run. Now Wyrd are taking that cost on themselves by throwing them all in as add ons and the stretch goals seem to be more for just funding the overall effort. 500k is likely still there to fund that effort, but Wyrd has reallocated those resources to paying for that development and testing themselves in case it doesn't reach the goal.

So it seems that the projects were were more likely delayed, rather than cancelled. If the kickstarter hits 500k, then they've got the funding they were originally going for, minus a few more free models. In which case the resources they were going to reallocate wouldn't need to be reallocated. If it doesn't hit 500k, then those projects would stay delayed until they pay for the development and testing that they're out of pocket for.

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The kickstarter is now a better deal, but yeah, I was kind of disappointed. And it looks like so numbers have only jumped up 5k, while presumably costing the company a whole lot more. 

In the latest chronicles they threw out a tease that there was a Gremlin board game being developed. I hope that wasn't one of the casualties.

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Yeah it had been a pretty bad day before the update, we were about -$4k from yesterday.  But since then we've not only made that back in pledges but (at time of typing, about 4.5 hours after the update) we've actually gone up an additional $3k!  So we're in a way better spot than before already and it looks like it's only going to go up from there - especially when we hit $250k and everyone gets a free unit!  Also, from the comments someone named Elliot said the following:

-

"I think by cancelled projects what they mean is they've pulled the budget out of other projects to allocate to this effectively putting the other projects on ice till budgets become available again.  This is a guess from working in the projects world but not game design so my guess might be a little off.

If that's the case and the changes end up ramping up the kickstarter to high enough levels then the budgets for those projects could opened up an available much sooner.

This also does tell me from a management perspective wyrd are really dedicated to making this a success as delaying other things means the revenue from those other projects is also delayed."

-

And Aaron responded with, "You're on the right track there."  So if all goes well, they won't be cancelled projects after all :) 

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No need to worry, even if TOS is not your cup of tea. What I personally like about the statement is how much thought will be put into TOS and how much time it is given.

As someone who loves games all I can say is that it's of the utmost importance that every product you make should be given extensive thought and time, which in turn is a serious strain on the funds for working on something that isn't released yet is very costly indeed.

If all goes well The Other Side will be a fantastic army game, in my opinion it also has to be. Not only because I like the idea for it but because army games are expensive and expensive goods can only continue to sell if they are of the highest quality, this applies to the whole product, from models to rules.

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I like that the other side is back on track again.

 

I don't like that all the people who where just backing for freebies get finally what they wanted and wyrd had to give in.

 

Imho, kickstarter as it is ruins businesses, distributors and resellers alike.

 

And now I will refrain from further comments on that matter :)

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To be fair, there's not many more feeebies. They moved the free squad earlier in the rewards and added 2 more single model Adjuncts and 1 more single model small Champion. I don't think that's going to break the bank for Wyrd.

The biggest impact was adding all of the squads. That's why we saw a big jump without many new backers, people being able to add funds for the stuff they wanted that wasn't unlocked yet.

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8 hours ago, retnab said:

Yeah it had been a pretty bad day before the update, we were about -$4k from yesterday.  But since then we've not only made that back in pledges but (at time of typing, about 4.5 hours after the update) we've actually gone up an additional $3k!  So we're in a way better spot than before already and it looks like it's only going to go up from there - especially when we hit $250k and everyone gets a free unit!  Also, from the comments someone named Elliot said the following. 

Hey I'm a someone lol

I'm happy the comment helped, I also love the level of engagement from the design team on this. 

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Disclaimer: I'm replying to this posts, because I feel it's warranted, since I started the topic. This is not me being a kicking and screaming child forcing everybody to see it my way, but rather putting things in perspectives. As I already mentioned in my opening post; I do not own Wyrd, so I don't get to make the decisions. However I can make feedback (that not everybody is happy), but I also know it's impossible to please everybody. I also know that the Malifaux-verse is a strong brand and investing further in that brand and expaning your target audience is a smart move. Without further ado I reply to some of the comments, not to bicker or argue for argue's sake, but ultimately, because I feel a response is due.

13 hours ago, Khyodee said:

Different company, but Blizzard has had a ton of success and they've cancelled several big projects because despite all the work they did on it, they felt it wasn't up to par. Wyrd may very well feel the same about these other projects and I would rather then put out a few solid products then bunch of poorer designed ones.

Sure, but not every company announces that they cancelled projects. While yes it could be that they are have baked, they necessarily don'T have to be to be cancelled, just they want to give ToS priority. For me that is an unwelcome change in tactics, for others it's a cool message. I'm sad, you are maybe happy. In the end I have to cope with Wyrd's decision.

12 hours ago, -Loki- said:

The cancelled projects could be anything. They could be expansions to Jetpack Unicorn or Evil baby orphanage, they could be Twised Alternate sets, they could be a new board game. 

Basically, there's every chance the cancelled project might not have appealed to you either. So there's no reason to get sad about missing out on something if you never knew what it was anyway.

Sure, but on the other Hand they also could have appealed to me. For me it's rather that it got cancelled over a project I do not care for enough... and it got announced as a happy thing to do...

12 hours ago, -Loki- said:

So it seems that the projects were were more likely delayed, rather than cancelled. If the kickstarter hits 500k, then they've got the funding they were originally going for, minus a few more free models. In which case the resources they were going to reallocate wouldn't need to be reallocated. If it doesn't hit 500k, then those projects would stay delayed until they pay for the development and testing that they're out of pocket for.

Well, than let's pray People flock onto it, so I can see the mystery projects once they further along...It gained some traction, but I really don't see it getting the cancelled stuff money back :(

11 hours ago, Cinnamon Bear said:

In the latest chronicles they threw out a tease that there was a Gremlin board game being developed. I hope that wasn't one of the casualties.

Please, don'T let it be hit. I would have loved that! Now I worry much more :(

10 hours ago, retnab said:

If that's the case and the changes end up ramping up the kickstarter to high enough levels then the budgets for those projects could opened up an available much sooner.

This also does tell me from a management perspective wyrd are really dedicated to making this a success as delaying other things means the revenue from those other projects is also delayed."

-

And Aaron responded with, "You're on the right track there."  So if all goes well, they won't be cancelled projects after all :) 

Any link on that context with Aaron? Also this is only true if ToS brings now in the money :(

 

12 hours ago, necroon said:

For every smile there is a frown.

I put this quote in the end, since I really want to stress that I was just voicing my dislike. And agian in the end I'm just the one from the side that is not happy, but I'm far from torches and pitchforks... as if that would amount to anything in that Situation ;). 

 

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5 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

Sure, but on the other Hand they also could have appealed to me. For me it's rather that it got cancelled over a project I do not care for enough... and it got announced as a happy thing to do...

It IS a happy thing in that it's to better support a product that, while you may not care for it, looks like it can help sustain and improve the long-term financial health of Wyrd and allow them to do more of the smaller side projects that you DO care for, including some of the ones that they pulled funding for.

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Kobayashi, and anyone else for that matter, have you considered the possibility of the "other projects" being vaporware, harvey the rabbit, or just plain oh so much smoke and mirror?  

I personally don't care and have NO proof that this IS the case, but the argument can be made that they saw pledges dropping fast and made a decision to SAY they were doing so to increase interest and garner support, IE,  "Look we are so committed we are shelving everything else to do this"  Now why this matters to some as a reason to back or not I am not sure.

 I am backing TOS and am looking forward to it but I am not so much worried about Wyrds inner workings, way I see it everyone wants something for nothing and to get backers they are going to have to give a few "Freebies" because as backers we have to  consider that the cash is gone and you don't have anything to show for it for a year.

nature of the beast I suppose.

 

Oh Well Looking to seeing the world burn and having 18 portals on the table and having an opponent going "where is he going to come from!"

 

 

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I think people are missing the point there's no such thing as free. Basically Wyrd are asking 'X amount' for a package and a large portion of people dont think as it stands it represents great value for money for said package. This isn't about scalping freebies or bleeding Wyrd dry it's a genuine concern that what is on offer doesn't for many people seem to represent value for money. 

I would wager that the 10-15k they've raised in the last 24 hours has come mainly from existing backers pledging more for add on's. They obviously hope that by unlocking the free unit earlier it might give the KS the kick it needs. 

Personally I think the overall package has improved there's no denying that what reservations I have about the game now are mainly due to what I perceive as a high retail price which may prevent me and my gaming group adopting this long term. I mean seriously $50 for a box of 9 PVC mini's? If that was GW they'd be torn a new one. 

 

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