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Gaining Grounds 2017

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@CapnBloodbeard

I know, I know, you can get rid off it, I'm just saying that I think it's very hard - it's often not just a matter of walking around the edge, as you need to be completely out of los from every enemy model.

And it's even harder if you get the condition after you activated (against heavy summoning. Plus, the summoners themselves have a much easier time stay back and hide behind a screen of models) - the condition is only removed at the end of your activation!

You can drag your master around all you want, build walls around the model or make it invisible, it'll be of no use.

 

That's why I said that I think you have to play either extremely passive and stay mostly out of los for most of the game, or super aggressive and kill every enemy in los.

We'll see how that turns out, as it is now I don't think that this one is stoppable for a lot of masters :)

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42 minutes ago, Tris said:

@CapnBloodbeard

I know, I know, you can get rid off it, I'm just saying that I think it's very hard - it's often not just a matter of walking around the edge, as you need to be completely out of los from every enemy model.

And it's even harder if you get the condition after you activated (against heavy summoning. Plus, the summoners themselves have a much easier time stay back and hide behind a screen of models) - the condition is only removed at the end of your activation!

You can drag your master around all you want, build walls around the model or make it invisible, it'll be of no use.

 

That's why I said that I think you have to play either extremely passive and stay mostly out of los for most of the game, or super aggressive and kill every enemy in los.

We'll see how that turns out, as it is now I don't think that this one is stoppable for a lot of masters :)

I'm with you .  Yeah, it seems like it will tough for most masters.  I run Von Schill for instance.  He's going to be up there in the middle of everything.  I can keep him out of LoS, but then I'm not challenging the turf marker or some such.  Maybe another model can help block LoS, but again, that's hard if you don't have a 50mm base model, and it's still situational.  I'm with you - at first glance it looks way too hard to defend against.

 

It may also be another one of those things that leads you to just kill off your own master in certain circumstances....

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other unsolicited feedback. For maybe next year in Hidden Trap perhaps it should trigger at end of game OR when you last model is removed. stop the crew getting wiped on turn 4 and then spedning turn 5 just walking away from the scheme markers. But again, this is another untested opinion

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@Aaron
One wording to fix unless I'm misunderstanding in Last Stand. I believe " on the table" = "in play" ?  In general it should be the same... but "on the table" makes me think buried models might also be included.

13: Last Stand
Never go down without a fight.
This Scheme may not start revealed. Reveal this Scheme
at the end of any turn.
At the end of every Turn after the Turn this Scheme has
been revealed, if this Crew has at least three Enforcer
and/or Henchman (any combination of at least three)
models in play completely outside their deployment
zone and this Crew has fewer models on the table than
the enemy Crew, score 1 VP.

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10 minutes ago, DoctorWhat said:

From the Rulebook:

 

"Buried models cannot Activate. In addition, buried
models are never considered to be in LoS or within
range of effects. These models do not count as "in play"
for the purposes of other rules that reference whether or
not a model is in play."

 

To my point - It states "on the table" not "in play" which that ruling doesn't reference. I'm assuming the scheme should read "in play" for relevance of buried model but I'm 100% on that.

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22 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Doubt it. Schemes were changed in 2016 to prevent models like Levi and the dreamer from just avoiding schemes. Not certain but the on the table wording is probably intentional.

But it's a different case here - @Nemikansuggests that you could keep models buried to keep them alive and scoring, I suppose (although I would like to know how you would define them to be outside of your dployment zone? I don't think that the wording on this one matters regarding buried models, could you please explain a game situation where this would be the case? :) )

 

And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^

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1 minute ago, Tris said:

And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^

- I give you the Spotted Condition as I have Tail`em

- I politely choose not to accept it

- I give it to Nix then

- <undead bark-no>

:D

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Just now, Tris said:

But it's a different case here - @Nemikansuggests that you could keep models buried to keep them alive and scoring, I suppose (although I would like to know how you would define them to be outside of your dployment zone? I don't think that the wording on this one matters regarding buried models, could you please explain a game situation where this would be the case? :) )

 

And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^

Well first off buried would be outside of your deployment zone. The relevance becomes huge for Tara specifically. Tara could have 3 henchmen/enforcer models in play while the opponent has 2 models "in play" but then 2 buried ("on the table"?)  which may/not cause the scheme to give points.

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29 minutes ago, Nemikan said:

Well first off buried would be outside of your deployment zone. The relevance becomes huge for Tara specifically. Tara could have 3 henchmen/enforcer models in play while the opponent has 2 models "in play" but then 2 buried ("on the table"?)  which may/not cause the scheme to give points.

But buried models are never on the table, aren't they?

 

I get that you mean 'on table' is not specified in the rules, while 'in play' is, but if I bury your model I physically remove it from the table, and it's also ruleswise no longer in play = the same thing.

 

Personally, I don't see a difference here.

 

Also, regarding the deployment zone - they may not be in the deployment zone, but they are also not! outside the deployment zone - they are technically 'nowhere', imo.

 

 

 

@trikk

That's what I meant, but nobody cares about that, while everyone has huge concerns about everything that's just very hard against Leveticus - quite interesting imho^^

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For what it's worth, I have no idea what "on the table" is supposed to mean compared to "in play", since the last time I got into an argument about what "on the table" meant it was for 40k.  I don't want to have nightmares about strawmen and the "That model's not on the table, it's standing on a wall" argument. :wacko: 

 

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The three plus Enforcers/Henchmen have to be "in play" though, "on the table" is only used for determining who has the most models. So you can't protect the Enforcer/Henchmen by burying them either way and we don't have to argue about whether buried models are outside their deployment zone. :P

My gut reaction is that "on the table" is supposed to mean the same as "in play", but who knows. If buried models are supposed to be include in the count that would IMO have been clearer if "on the table" was just left out.

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3 hours ago, solkan said:

For what it's worth, I have no idea what "on the table" is supposed to mean compared to "in play", since the last time I got into an argument about what "on the table" meant it was for 40k.  I don't want to have nightmares about strawmen and the "That model's not on the table, it's standing on a wall" argument. :wacko: 

 

 

Why have that argument at all?  I'd take my ball and go home if someone threw a fit like that. :)

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Is there an order where schemes are resolved?

 

For example, if I have claim jump and dig their graves, which removes the marker first? Does claim jump remove the markers and potentially the marker for dig their graves or can the player choose?

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@Aaron Can Wyrd please include the book strategies in the set of new strats and schemes cards! They are in the monthly rotations. New players don't have the cards from the original deck and it would be nice to have a complete matching set.

 

It would also be cool to have an official table for generating strategies using all of the current strategies.

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1 hour ago, RustAndTheCity said:

@Aaron Can Wyrd please include the book strategies in the set of new strats and schemes cards! They are in the monthly rotations. New players don't have the cards from the original deck and it would be nice to have a complete matching set.

 

It would also be cool to have an official table for generating strategies using all of the current strategies.

That - got asked today why we still play the old strats at our tourney, I showed them the rotation and explained it, but it would be nice if the schemes would actualy be on the sheet :)

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