Math Mathonwy Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 9 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said: Any idea how to defend against it? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 42 minutes ago, Tris said: @CapnBloodbeard I know, I know, you can get rid off it, I'm just saying that I think it's very hard - it's often not just a matter of walking around the edge, as you need to be completely out of los from every enemy model. And it's even harder if you get the condition after you activated (against heavy summoning. Plus, the summoners themselves have a much easier time stay back and hide behind a screen of models) - the condition is only removed at the end of your activation! You can drag your master around all you want, build walls around the model or make it invisible, it'll be of no use. That's why I said that I think you have to play either extremely passive and stay mostly out of los for most of the game, or super aggressive and kill every enemy in los. We'll see how that turns out, as it is now I don't think that this one is stoppable for a lot of masters I'm with you . Yeah, it seems like it will tough for most masters. I run Von Schill for instance. He's going to be up there in the middle of everything. I can keep him out of LoS, but then I'm not challenging the turf marker or some such. Maybe another model can help block LoS, but again, that's hard if you don't have a 50mm base model, and it's still situational. I'm with you - at first glance it looks way too hard to defend against. It may also be another one of those things that leads you to just kill off your own master in certain circumstances.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 other unsolicited feedback. For maybe next year in Hidden Trap perhaps it should trigger at end of game OR when you last model is removed. stop the crew getting wiped on turn 4 and then spedning turn 5 just walking away from the scheme markers. But again, this is another untested opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemikan Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 @Aaron One wording to fix unless I'm misunderstanding in Last Stand. I believe " on the table" = "in play" ? In general it should be the same... but "on the table" makes me think buried models might also be included. 13: Last Stand Never go down without a fight. This Scheme may not start revealed. Reveal this Scheme at the end of any turn. At the end of every Turn after the Turn this Scheme has been revealed, if this Crew has at least three Enforcer and/or Henchman (any combination of at least three) models in play completely outside their deployment zone and this Crew has fewer models on the table than the enemy Crew, score 1 VP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassfist Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 2017 Scheme generator made! Will update this if the wording changes in any way... http://malifaux.site88.net 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWhat Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I misread things. The above post has a point. Edited December 30, 2016 by DoctorWhat I can't read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemikan Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, DoctorWhat said: From the Rulebook: "Buried models cannot Activate. In addition, buried models are never considered to be in LoS or within range of effects. These models do not count as "in play" for the purposes of other rules that reference whether or not a model is in play." To my point - It states "on the table" not "in play" which that ruling doesn't reference. I'm assuming the scheme should read "in play" for relevance of buried model but I'm 100% on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Doubt it. Schemes were changed in 2016 to prevent models like Levi and the dreamer from just avoiding schemes. Not certain but the on the table wording is probably intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 @Aaron Any news when the GG17 deck will be available at Wargame Vault? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said: Doubt it. Schemes were changed in 2016 to prevent models like Levi and the dreamer from just avoiding schemes. Not certain but the on the table wording is probably intentional. But it's a different case here - @Nemikansuggests that you could keep models buried to keep them alive and scoring, I suppose (although I would like to know how you would define them to be outside of your dployment zone? I don't think that the wording on this one matters regarding buried models, could you please explain a game situation where this would be the case? ) And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Tris said: And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^ - I give you the Spotted Condition as I have Tail`em - I politely choose not to accept it - I give it to Nix then - <undead bark-no> 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemikan Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Tris said: But it's a different case here - @Nemikansuggests that you could keep models buried to keep them alive and scoring, I suppose (although I would like to know how you would define them to be outside of your dployment zone? I don't think that the wording on this one matters regarding buried models, could you please explain a game situation where this would be the case? ) And funny enough, there are still schemes which are completely shut down by certain masters, but while everyone seems to fuzz about Leve and Dreamer, nobody cares enough about Hamelin to see all the schemes which can't be scored against him I suppose^^ Well first off buried would be outside of your deployment zone. The relevance becomes huge for Tara specifically. Tara could have 3 henchmen/enforcer models in play while the opponent has 2 models "in play" but then 2 buried ("on the table"?) which may/not cause the scheme to give points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, Nemikan said: Well first off buried would be outside of your deployment zone. The relevance becomes huge for Tara specifically. Tara could have 3 henchmen/enforcer models in play while the opponent has 2 models "in play" but then 2 buried ("on the table"?) which may/not cause the scheme to give points. But buried models are never on the table, aren't they? I get that you mean 'on table' is not specified in the rules, while 'in play' is, but if I bury your model I physically remove it from the table, and it's also ruleswise no longer in play = the same thing. Personally, I don't see a difference here. Also, regarding the deployment zone - they may not be in the deployment zone, but they are also not! outside the deployment zone - they are technically 'nowhere', imo. @trikk That's what I meant, but nobody cares about that, while everyone has huge concerns about everything that's just very hard against Leveticus - quite interesting imho^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 For what it's worth, I have no idea what "on the table" is supposed to mean compared to "in play", since the last time I got into an argument about what "on the table" meant it was for 40k. I don't want to have nightmares about strawmen and the "That model's not on the table, it's standing on a wall" argument. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 The three plus Enforcers/Henchmen have to be "in play" though, "on the table" is only used for determining who has the most models. So you can't protect the Enforcer/Henchmen by burying them either way and we don't have to argue about whether buried models are outside their deployment zone. My gut reaction is that "on the table" is supposed to mean the same as "in play", but who knows. If buried models are supposed to be include in the count that would IMO have been clearer if "on the table" was just left out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terwox Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 hours ago, solkan said: For what it's worth, I have no idea what "on the table" is supposed to mean compared to "in play", since the last time I got into an argument about what "on the table" meant it was for 40k. I don't want to have nightmares about strawmen and the "That model's not on the table, it's standing on a wall" argument. Why have that argument at all? I'd take my ball and go home if someone threw a fit like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustAndTheCity Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Is there an order where schemes are resolved? For example, if I have claim jump and dig their graves, which removes the marker first? Does claim jump remove the markers and potentially the marker for dig their graves or can the player choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hmmmmm, last stand addition and hunting party no longer being suit scheme both seem like very good changes as for crossroads 7, and I am happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiskaShadowRawr Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Is there a way I can get a printer friendly version of the 2017 Gaining Grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustAndTheCity Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 @Aaron Can Wyrd please include the book strategies in the set of new strats and schemes cards! They are in the monthly rotations. New players don't have the cards from the original deck and it would be nice to have a complete matching set. It would also be cool to have an official table for generating strategies using all of the current strategies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 hour ago, RustAndTheCity said: @Aaron Can Wyrd please include the book strategies in the set of new strats and schemes cards! They are in the monthly rotations. New players don't have the cards from the original deck and it would be nice to have a complete matching set. It would also be cool to have an official table for generating strategies using all of the current strategies. That - got asked today why we still play the old strats at our tourney, I showed them the rotation and explained it, but it would be nice if the schemes would actualy be on the sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huwbe Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 How do you get hold of the updated master cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lucidicide Posted December 31, 2016 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Updated the language on Last Stand to no longer say "on the table" but rather to say "in play." Updated Recover the Evidence's third paragraph to say "Place an enemy Evidence Marker in base contact with the models chosen by the opponent." Neither of these functionally change the Schemes in any way, but help with clarity. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/31/2016 at 5:55 AM, trikk said: - I give you the Spotted Condition as I have Tail`em - I politely choose not to accept it - I give it to Nix then - <undead bark-no> Yes, Hamelin can be a little bit rude like that. A combination of Hamelin, Nix, and Ashes and Dust can make any enemy who relies on conditions tear their hair out. With the ability to generate a 6" no charge zone, Nix's ability to negate damage from blasts, pulses, and auras, and the fact that many of Hamelin's support models don't drop corpse markers, only The Stolen, The Obedient Wretch, The Winged Plague, and Rat Catchers are living, they can make certain playstyles rather frustrating. Then you add in the fact that Outcasts have one of the most diverse hiring pools, and Hamelin's Obey. I wish I were a good Hamelin player, but I can certainly see his potential potency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 One other thing - regarding Tail `em and the Spotted condition: Spotted says: This condition is removed if this model is outside of Line of Sight of all enemy models at the end of its Activation. .... .... At the end of every turn after the first, this Crew may end the Spotted condition on one enemy model in play to gain 1 vp. What about models which bury during their activation? I get that a buried model is not in play and therefore you can`t remove the Spotted to score. But what if, for example, a Perdita obeys a Death Marshal to bury her during her activation? Does she remove the spotted, as she is ends her activation (by getting buried) and I guess she`s considered to be out of LoS if buried? (Same question for Leve. Actually, these two are the only ones I can think of at the moment^^) Don`t know if thats actually the right place to ask, but I guess I´ll try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.