Tris Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 A place to discuss the recent changes for our faction with the 2017 Errata, we got several things, cuddles and, as I would say, a "brand new" master (as the new Lucius is just not comparable to the old one )! Interested to hear your opinions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Well Lucius I feel is no longer going be the worst master in the game Looking forward to playing him. I feel the papa in the box and Francisco cuddle are justified. imo the austringer cuddle won't be too bad. Only thing is the new Lucius I feel is making lawyers kind of bad (as their main thing was the to horror duels imo) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Aww yeah! I played him a lotlast year ans almost exclusively this year and have been frustrated as hell! Now it looks like I get to play him next year too 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 I think he`ll see a lot of table time now - his new orders are great, the horror duel is more likely to get passed (and Lucius` own Aura now helps with that, so that we don`t need another model for that), the Ml is now actually usable, and the 0 to Interact while engaged is just huge (especially when combined with a nice command) - everyone is a doppleganger now Less damage to keep his stones and a def trigger which doesnt need a stone anytime to go off are the icing on the cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Well, his aura works on Minions, Guardsmen and Mimics. Commanding Presence works on everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 I'm really, really, really happy that Lucius got some extra love. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Oh, and the upgraded Guardian looks great - had a game on monday where I used a Warden to basically not die and try to push the opponent away from the extraction marker, wasn´t exactly impressed by his performance - the Guardian seems to suit that role better now for one Stone more, will try them now soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Looking very forward to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Bear Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 I'm really happy with all the Guild changes, even the cuddles. I've always felt Papa in the Box was stupid, and I'm glad the Family abilities work like most other similar abilities now. Francisco is still very powerful, and he crowds out a lot of other choices even after the cuddle. But its a step in the right direction. Austringer cuddle was worthwhile if it means he plays better with others. Lucius is the real star. 2017 is going to be his year! I'm sure Hoffman is happy about The Guardian as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidelfon Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Francisco is basically unchanged. I haven't seem him boxed and a dispel is unlikely as few models have it, many need a suit and is always against WP 7+ Austringers became worse scheme hunters, but delivers the orders is the big deal anyway. Guardian buff was very needed and welcomed I am glad lucius got buffed. Model is nice and fluff great. I kind of feel as we got a new master 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDsHanD Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 I like all the changes. I think the Papa in the box and the austringers were crutches that i used when i didn't want to think a lot. Guess I am going to rethink my games now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 the fact that Austringers are pretty much an auto-include x 2 suggests they probably needed to be Cuddled a little.. Papa is disappointing, will have a fair impact on some players. Although I guess with Papa being less desirable (he might only be in position to buff the master for 1 or 2 turns), it may free up his 'spot' on the list to more competition and seeing a bit more variation in family-oriented lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said: the fact that Austringers are pretty much an auto-include x 2 suggests they probably needed to be Cuddled a little.. Anything that is generally considered auto-include probably needs critical review. In the Austringer's case, 18", Focus, and ignoring LOS combined to make a model that could do a lot more than it was probably intended to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 To be honest I don't see these changing much for me save for Lucius and the Guardian. Never really used Papa in the Box myself much as I did not feel the need. Don't get me wrong though, I used Papa just did not feel the need to bury him to preserve the bonus. Generally I get it turn 1 and 2, maybe 3, and that is all I really needed. The Guardian's change strikes me as interesting and I think people are going to start taking it more to test it out. Some will roll it into their line ups more, others will find they still don't like it and leave it the way side for other models. Still I can see gaining a better showing after the errata. Have to drag out my metal one from Hoffman storage I think at some point to get it some testing. Lucius, honestly did not get changed a ton in my opinion but it really did streamline and ease his use. He is still the same engine, it just runs better. I imagine a lot of people are going to give him a shot but I also suspect a decent number of those people will drop him afterwards. The reason will not be that he is not viable, or that he is better off, but because I still don't think he will suit their play style. I did not play Lucius a lot but he did not let me down in the games I did take him. It will be interesting though to see what people are saying 4-5 months into 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 hours ago, EnternalVoid said: Lucius, honestly did not get changed a ton in my opinion but it really did streamline and ease his use. He is still the same engine, it just runs better. I imagine a lot of people are going to give him a shot but I also suspect a decent number of those people will drop him afterwards. The reason will not be that he is not viable, or that he is better off, but because I still don't think he will suit their play style. I did not play Lucius a lot but he did not let me down in the games I did take him. It will be interesting though to see what people are saying 4-5 months into 2017. Not changed a ton? Now he can actually affect your entire list with his tricks instead of relying on minion. Used to be I needed an ap and a flip to let a couple of minions interact but since my opponents knew I could only buff them they went heavily for them. Now I can do that without an ap and it affects any friendly models. Lucius just gained an entire ap and his lists gained a ton of flexibility. That's a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Not a huge deal but I'd like to point out that Lady Justice's no-condition ability is a pulse so "Protected by Francisco" won't be removed from her but can be from any other models within that distance. Something to watch out for if you El Mayor another model 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 23 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said: Not a huge deal but I'd like to point out that Lady Justice's no-condition ability is a pulse so "Protected by Francisco" won't be removed from her but can be from any other models within that distance. Something to watch out for if you El Mayor another model Absolutely, in general I think the Guild Marshals have been pushed a bit back indirectly by this. It's very logical that they gained the Void characteristic but I do think the game would have been even cooler if they also recieved just the slightest of boost. For me the DM was used for Papa Loco protection, something that since Numb to the World wasn't really required but still very cool. However without having this utility as an advantage I don't really know IF I should consider the DM over other choices. This is obviously both a pro and con for Frank and Papa but feels like a light con, no pro to a Death Mashal. Either way, I feel the game has logically improved and that's a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 If the DMs sole function was to protect papa in his box, then maybe he wasn't worth it before^^ Also don't forget that Lucius has now a free push built in in every command and that he can heal his team now! The impact of the interact while engaged will be bigger than many think, imho. The 6" range of to Ml and Horror brings it now in line with promises, which is considered pretty good, and Lucius "soulstone damage" does not hurt more than you can heal with the ram on issue command. Plus, he got a 2stone "significant" minion - yeah And the def trigger is now actually doable, would say it was maybe the worst one of the "shrug the damage off" triggers, always requiring a card and a stone... Again, I'm happy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 I'm annoyed that it feels like we were the only faction that had pur competition builds wrecked(maybe gremlins). No arcanist I asked would have traded practiced production for the austrimger. Same with TT and sensei you. Aonius had already hurt papabox but this might be the end of his use except in niche situations. As far as Lucius goes, I'll need to see his triggers but I suspect the guild Intel thing will be hyuge. A almost worthless ability due to the high cast all the sudden is a free zero. Finally, at the risk of paralyzing frank, commanding presence makes it easy to keep el mayor on Lucius if you want it. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Well, practiced production needs a cuddle as well, so not really a big thing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: I'm annoyed that it feels like we were the only faction that had pur competition builds wrecked(maybe gremlins). No arcanist I asked would have traded practiced production for the austrimger. Same with TT and sensei you. Aonius had already hurt papabox but this might be the end of his use except in niche situations. ->we got a completely new master, I would take that trade off every time of the day^^ It´s not exactly as if the cuddled models are unplayable now, imho As far as Lucius goes, I'll need to see his triggers but I suspect the guild Intel thing will be hyuge. A almost worthless ability due to the high cast all the sudden is a free zero. Finally, at the risk of paralyzing frank, commanding presence makes it easy to keep el mayor on Lucius if you want it. Interesting. -> How`s that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 55 minutes ago, JDAntoine said: Absolutely, in general I think the Guild Marshals have been pushed a bit back indirectly by this. It's very logical that they gained the Void characteristic but I do think the game would have been even cooler if they also recieved just the slightest of boost. How would you boost them? I think the Recruiters do that well enough when they're included. Boxing an enemy is still a very good ability, likely the reason they stayed the same. Lucius is going to love pushing them and then boxing somebody out of activation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said: How would you boost them? Uncertain, really would have to test. My gut feeling would say to either put the Pine Box on Ca 6 OR put the Pine Box at 2. The size of those Pine Boxes does not feel logical as a 1 weapon. A range I thought was put there to ensure you had to really commit to the utility if you where looking for it. The utility aspect of it seems to have been indirectly removed. A change of melee range is a big change but on the other side I would also say that they have become a rarity, only showing up competatively with Papa Loco. The buff would also not exclusively boost the Guild as Tara can now logically use them aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think Ca6 would be Bonkers good. If I'd have to change DM I'd work around everything except the Pinebox. Drop their cost to 5 with a Wd drop? Give them a good Guild Marshal upgrade instead of Flames? Make their shooting better or the blade better? Give them some aura? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Dropping Flames of the Put to zero would be pretty neat. It's nice as-is but no one ever takes it because it's so expensive. @JDAntoine have you not played many games with Mark for Death in the pool? Marking something early and then boxing it several times is both hilarious and exceptionally good. Fingers crossed that something similar stays in GG17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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