January 2017 Errata

[iamthefly]

Like it . Like the cleaning up of black blood and the ca 7 lure on belles, not sure the -1wd on them was required though . 

[TeddyBear]

Sorry i haven't found the answer, but the new cards are already on Wargame Vault?

[Lucidicide]

They are uploaded but not prepped for print, so you can't order them yet.

[Landers]

The affected cards have been taken out of Wargame's Store, so it's a good sign.

[Myth]

27 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

That's fine to believe. This nonsense has destroyed groups I've built before so I personally will not stop advocating for its removal.

That's certainly fair. I do think that Malifaux has a very high tendency for people to get blown away the first time they encounter something they aren't expecting. Whether it is facing a Master they haven't played before, or a combo between two models they didn't expect, that first experience can be overwhelming - and often demoralizing.

At the same time, I don't think that those 'gotcha' effects are what needs to be targeted with errata. Models being powerful, and having unique and distinct capabilities, is a part of what makes Malifaux great. And, notably, there usually are answers to all of these things - sometimes in the crews you play, sometimes in the tactics you use or the schemes you choose.

I know one player whose first experience against McMourning involved his entire crew getting absolutely wrecked by poison with very little he could do about it. A Chihuahua ran into the midst of his crew at the bottom of one turn (and then went again first the next round), and suddenly he had a ton of models suffering from Poison 4, while McMourning and Sebastian hung out nearby and amplified the poison effects. All without him getting to make any checks to resist - just like the worry about the Black Blood Bomb. Long story short, a turn or two later most of his crew was dead and turned into dogs, McMourning had expunged one of his best models into a Flesh Construct with a few high-Ca attacks and high cards, and he conceded right there and didn't play Malifaux again for a while.

When he did return to playing, he refused to play against McMourning, believing him to be completely broken and an NPE. Eventually, he one day faced McMourning again - and won, since he knew what he was up against. He avoided clustering for the Chihuahua, focused on taking out the support pieces like Sebastian quickly, forced McMourning to overextend to get in range of key models, and ultimately was able to emerge victorious. Which is how things should be. One game of a powerful effect winning out isn't a reason to change things - it is a reason to look at what happened and figure out if there is any way to counter that effect or combo in the next game.

In short, I think there is a difference between effects that have the potential to be strong - but can be mitigated by clever positioning or smart tactics or the right schemes - vs abilities that are reliably powerful with very few ways to respond to them. (Such as Ca 8 Lures, or Rooster Rider charges from 22" away, or Austringers threatening any vulnerable models that exited their opponents deployment zone.)

[trikk]

I have a question.

Why does BBS not give Black Blood Condition and Blood Postule say "target model with the Black Blood Ability or Condition? Would it have different interactions in the game? Is it something with Molly?

[daniello_s]

1 hour ago, Myth said:

That's certainly fair. I do think that Malifaux has a very high tendency for people to get blown away the first time they encounter something they aren't expecting. Whether it is facing a Master they haven't played before, or a combo between two models they didn't expect, that first experience can be overwhelming - and often demoralizing.

Agreed. Three of my friends had negative experience with the first few games and backed off from playing Malifaux...

[keget]

Is there a master list of all cards that have been errata-ed and when?  That way we have a single reference point to check to see if our opponents should have new cards?

[trikk]

The current list (not counting the Jan Errata) is available at wyrd page in the Resources-> FAQ and Errata page

https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata

[Curropepe]

Great changes! I'm super excited!

@Aaron One minor thing... Any chances that Captain Dashel  "Ready! Aim!" change to affect Austringers too? The clause feels very fiddly and unnecesary after the Austringerss cuddles...

[Lucidicide]

Nope! No chance

[Stonewall78]

Since we seem to have more harmony within the guild why not remove the non-austringer condition from Captain Dashel's Ready!Aim!? This would bring a lot more synergy back to an all guardsman list and give Dashel that boost that his 0 point upgrade really didn't give him.

[trikk]

1 minute ago, Aaron said:

Nope! No chance

Oh well, maybe 2018

[Stonewall78]

4 minutes ago, Curropepe said:

Great changes! I'm super excited!

@Aaron One minor thing... Any chances that Captain Dashel  "Ready! Aim!" change to affect Austringers too? The clause feels very fiddly and unnecesary after the Austringerss cuddles...

Funny we wrote this at the exact same time

[CiDevant]

12 minutes ago, Stonewall78 said:

give Dashel that boost that his 0 point upgrade really didn't give him.

Until Guardsman as a whole get some love Dashal will remain a case warmer.  Also, now that Austringers lose the  to Raptor, it no longer benefits from his "Fire!" ability either.  Even more anti-synergy!

[-Loki-]

2 minutes ago, CiDevant said:

Until Guardsman as a whole get some love Dashal will remain a case warmer.  Also, now that Austringers lose the  to Raptor, it no longer benefits from his "Fire!" ability either.  Even more anti-synergy!

Summoning Guardsmen can at least give you some additional acivations, which is always helpful.

[Stonewall78]

1 minute ago, -Loki- said:

Summoning Guardsmen can at least give you some additional acivations, which is always helpful.

Only if you are going to spam lots of them is it helpful. Some consider them to be one of the worst models. Then there is the fact you have to be 6" away which either puts him in range for buffing back line riflemen or up close and cuddly with the enemy. Add to that fact that the 0 upgrade takes up a upgrade slot and you have not much to work with. I love my guardsman models but at this point it looks like they will only collect dust.

[-Loki-]

2 minutes ago, Stonewall78 said:

Only if you are going to spam lots of them is it helpful. Some consider them to be one of the worst models.

Any additional activation is worthwhile, because any additional activation is one more than your opponent might have. And Guardsmen are hardly worse than Bayou Gremlins, and people are more than happy to spend master actions on summoning those. Probably because Gremlin players know the value of an additional activation.

[trikk]

I think while Dashel is not a top tier model, people underestimate him.

He`s quite tough with HtK, Armor and 9 Wds.

His summoning has a pretty ok range. He usually stands in front of Riflemen. His  are both 6" I believe. Add his base and 6" summoning and it turns out if you position him correctly he`s 6" from the enemy and Riflemen are 13" from the target which is more or less their range. 

I played him once or twice with McCabe and while he didn`t do anything spectacular he did what he`s suppose to do.

[Stonewall78]

Back on topic, what else do you all thinks need buffing or cuddling? Personally I think Reva needs some cuddles. After seeing a buddy destroy everyone with his Reva list in our last tournament even he was quick to point out how OP she can be and that there really isn't much of a counter for corpse counters everywhere.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Reva is no more powerful than Collodi or any of the other top tier masters. Kirai is the resser master that needs a cuddle. 

Seamus needs a buff now. Or more specifically he actually needs models released that support him since he hasn't gotten any models released for him since twisting fates. More importantly needs upgrades that give him something more interesting and synergistic to do with with his AP. I was already having trouble competitively fielding him due to how the game has advanced since he was released. With the recent double hit  plus Reva doing his thing better in every way than he does there really isn't an argument, mechanically, to play him any more. Which makes me sad. 

Dont get me wrong he isn't as bad as he was in 1e, but as one of the first models tested he was rightly toned back in a conservative manner, but the games' design has just moved on.

Hopefully he will finally get some help in the next book.

[daniello_s]

Well, Seamus is designed to do what he is doing at the moment - jump, focus, shoot and kill minion/enforcer. Next turn rinse and repeat. 

You would really need some nice new upgrades to change the way he is played but that trully could be said about few other masters as well.

And yes, Kirai is a beast

[EnternalVoid]

I don't see Reva being cuddled anytime soon, at least not till next January at the earliest.  Data is important for this sort of thing as well as time and playtesting.  Right now people are still learning, testing, and adapting to those new masters.  Take for example the lonely guild guard mentioned above and how people think it is a pretty poor model currently.  Would you believe when Wave 1 first came out of the Beta people were singing nothing but praise for it?  Seriously, people considered it one of the best 4ss model options.  So what happened as it got no adjustments?  It was not necessarily better newer options emerging as much as people learned, adapated, experimented, and their views eventually changed.  For people expecting Ressers to be a summoning, mostly close range faction, Reva is the sucker punch.  Till that punch becomes part of the normal mix up for a while it will be that oddity people have to get use to.

As for predictions... Hmmm that it interesting.  Masterwise I would not be surprise if Perdita, Marcus, and Mah on the testing table.  Not saying they will be changed but I can see those three being looked at.  Reasons; Marcus might only be examined for his issues with Alpha working on masters but taking a look at Law of Meat might be nice too, Mah for whether she needs a slight adjustment to help her up, and Perdita cause she might be a tad to good *personally I say knock her range to 10" to be more inline with other models considering her movement options*.  Henchmen wise I hope some of the early neverborn ones get re-examined.  They were originally beta tested while Nexus of Power was to strong so an examination to see if any need some slight adjustments in light would be nice.  Maybe another look at Vasilisa too.

For minions and enforcers I would likely start looking at the ones not generally taken.  I cannot think off the top of my head ones that are to strong that need a reduction at the second but perhaps something will come to me later.  Maybe the lone marshal, Bayou Bushwackers, or Wendigo could get a minor adjustment.

 

23 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Seamus needs a buff now. Or more specifically he actually needs models released that support him since he hasn't gotten any models released for him since twisting fates. More importantly needs upgrades that give him something more interesting and synergistic to do with with his AP. I was already having trouble competitively fielding him due to how the game has advanced since he was released. With the recent double hit  plus Reva doing his thing better in every way than he does there really isn't an argument, mechanically, to play him any more. Which makes me sad. 

Dont get me wrong he isn't as bad as he was in 1e, but as one of the first models tested he was rightly toned back in a conservative manner, but the games' design has just moved on.

Hopefully he will finally get some help in the next book.

 

Honestly my opinion of Seamus is different here.  But I will agree that the part about being a first round model is likely where some of the issues lie.  The problem lies in some of his core aspects.  Such as his Arise my Sweet.  Because it does not name a specific model or have a variable cast the ressers are always going to be limited on Belle options.  They will never get a high end cost belle minion in the 7-9ss range for one and are unlikely to get any that are built around synergy with other Belles.  Quite simply Seamus's rules are a hindrance to him getting in theme faction models. Feast on Fear is a similar issue as they were quite careful about not giving him ways to trigger it himself to easily.  Now I am not sure I will agree with him having trouble competitively.  As Daniello said he still does what he does and I personally still find him pretty good having played him a fair amount this year.

[trikk]

13 minutes ago, EnternalVoid said:

As for predictions... Hmmm that it interesting.  Masterwise I would not be surprise if Perdita, Marcus, and Mah on the testing table.  Not saying they will be changed but I can see those three being looked at.  Reasons; Marcus might only be examined for his issues with Alpha working on masters but taking a look at Law of Meat might be nice too, Mah for whether she needs a slight adjustment to help her up, and Perdita cause she might be a tad to good *personally I say knock her range to 10" to be more inline with other models considering her movement options*.  Henchmen wise I hope some of the early neverborn ones get re-examined.  They were originally beta tested while Nexus of Power was to strong so an examination to see if any need some slight adjustments in light would be nice.  Maybe another look at Vasilisa too.

Thats pretty funny. While Marcus and Mah I can agree upon I think Guild got hit pretty hard (althought I agree with the changes) with Papa Box and Austringers. She is very mobile, but she has a pretty meh damage track (its a hunters damage track, which is a 7SS minion), 2SS cache, 10 Wds but with min damage 2 she can`t really hunt down 8 Wd unless she has Loco.

[DoctorWhat]

36 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Reva is no more powerful than Collodi or any of the other top tier masters. Kirai is the resser master that needs a cuddle. 

Seamus needs a buff now. Or more specifically he actually needs models released that support him since he hasn't gotten any models released for him since twisting fates. More importantly needs upgrades that give him something more interesting and synergistic to do with with his AP. I was already having trouble competitively fielding him due to how the game has advanced since he was released. With the recent double hit  plus Reva doing his thing better in every way than he does there really isn't an argument, mechanically, to play him any more. Which makes me sad. 

Dont get me wrong he isn't as bad as he was in 1e, but as one of the first models tested he was rightly toned back in a conservative manner, but the games' design has just moved on.

Hopefully he will finally get some help in the next book.

While I would love to see a Belle Enforcer (or that Belle Flesh Construct from a Chronicles story), Seamus is quite fine. He does his own thing, dishes out damage, and can retreat/pressure more. Jack Daw does a very similar thing and he doesn't need more support models (I know he got Dead Outlaws in Wave 4).

 

However, Reva is absolutely a top tier master. A 21" threat range with Ca 6 and incredibly good, consistent damage that cannot be reduced or prevented is as bad as pre-cuddle Levi. Combine that with summons (which you can cycle with Sebastian to get your card back, on top of a corpse marker and a stone) and models like the Carrion Emissary results and it creates a problematic crew. She needs a corpse marker to see through, but that's quite easy to do. At the very least, she should get the Kirai treatment (require LoS from both Reva and the corpse marker to the target) and Decaying Aura should be tweaked/go back to being centered around the holder instead of any of their attacks.