Jump to content

January 2017 Errata


Lucidicide

Recommended Posts

Hello, 

Since I'm a new player and I also belong to a new community in our country I have to ask if there any place we can see all the changes and erratas in one place? Because I already found 3 different erratas and changes and I can't understand if they are all legal. 

In other questions, will this cards with the new erratas be available to purchase from print on demand early 2017?

Hope you can help answering my questions. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, GoDsHanD said:

Hello, 

Since I'm a new player and I also belong to a new community in our country I have to ask if there any place we can see all the changes and erratas in one place? Because I already found 3 different erratas and changes and I can't understand if they are all legal. 

In other questions, will this cards with the new erratas be available to purchase from print on demand early 2017?

Hope you can help answering my questions. 

It all should eventually end up here: https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adam,

I also respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them, and this is one I feel more passionate about than even the change that in addition to Reva's release drops my favorite master to among the bottom of the competitive pile.

I can only speak to what I've seen and experienced. While I also agree that I like the wording clarification cleanup so as to be less confusing and more in line with intent I'd have preferred something added to specifically stop this one specific interaction. It has had deleterious effect on groups I've formed in the past, and we have had to house rule it to remove it from them game before and very well may have to again. I also do not buy the "it's a 14 stone combo so it needs to be good". Sure a 14ss combo needs to be good but there is such a thing as too good. Would it be fair if ressers had access to a 7ss model which from range would remove your ability to actually even take the check from a punk zombie's slice and dice action, while at the same giving the zombie the ability to do slice and dice on that mythical models turn and also healing or buffing the zombie at the same time, with perhaps the downside being punk ceases to be undead until it activates next? 

Consider this, Archie, with his corpse armor upgrade costs 14 stones and even he doesn't have the utility and dmg potential/ease of use this combo does. Consider that one of the things that got changed about Molly during the open beta was specially limiting her ability to do exactly what the black blood shaman and illuminated do. Put out excessive amounts of irresistable damage for little to no cost to the models involved.

I only focus on ressers in this instance not because I'm upset they got similar things removed. Those things were rightly removed for the toxic gaming environment they created. I mention them because I only bring up things I have direct experience with and a good understanding of the mechanics of. Even if we accept, which I don't, that the combo is balanced, I still feel it should be removed for the health of the game. Much as the majority of the changes in this document were about game experience and not balance, this particular combo was the cause of more just disgust with the game than pretty much any other I can think of in my personal experience outside of the rat joys vogue after adepticon from personal observation. I'm not arguing my experience is universal, it's just what I've observed Adam is just one more data point for Aaron to pickup or discard as he chooses. 

But remember there are also people that argue that the rat joy combo shouldn't have been changed because it was balanced. I mean it was a how many SS combo again?

We can only comment on what we experience. So we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Hopefully the changes will ultimately be good for the game in the long run. If not.... *shrug* We can always just choose to ignore them.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Adam,

I also respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them, and this is one I feel more passionate about than even the change that in addition to Reva's release drops my favorite master to among the bottom of the competitive pile.

I can only speak to what I've seen and experienced. While I also agree that I like the wording clarification cleanup so as to be less confusing and more in line with intent I'd have preferred something added to specifically stop this one specific interaction. It has had deleterious effect on groups I've formed in the past, and we have had to house rule it to remove it from them game before and very well may have to again. I also do not buy the "it's a 14 stone combo so it needs to be good". Sure a 14ss combo needs to be good but there is such a thing as too good. Would it be fair if ressers had access to a 7ss model which from range would remove your ability to actually even take the check from a punk zombie's slice and dice action, while at the same giving the zombie the ability to do slice and dice on that mythical models turn and also healing or buffing the zombie at the same time, with perhaps the downside being punk ceases to be undead until it activates next? 

Consider this, Archie, with his corpse armor upgrade costs 14 stones and even he doesn't have the utility and dmg potential/ease of use this combo does. Consider that one of the things that got changed about Molly during the open beta was specially limiting her ability to do exactly what the black blood shaman and illuminated do. Put out excessive amounts of irresistable damage for little to no cost to the models involved.

I only focus on ressers in this instance not because I'm upset they got similar things removed. Those things were rightly removed for the toxic gaming environment they created. I mention them because I only bring up things I have direct experience with and a good understanding of the mechanics of. Even if we accept, which I don't, that the combo is balanced, I still feel it should be removed for the health of the game. Much as the majority of the changes in this document were about game experience and not balance, this particular combo was the cause of more just disgust with the game than pretty much any other I can think of in my personal experience outside of the rat joys vogue after adepticon from personal observation. I'm not arguing my experience is universal, it's just what I've observed Adam is just one more data point for Aaron to pickup or discard as he chooses. 

But remember there are also people that argue that the rat joy combo shouldn't have been changed because it was balanced. I mean it was a how many SS combo again?

We can only comment on what we experience. So we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Hopefully the changes will ultimately be good for the game in the long run. If not.... *shrug* We can always just choose to ignore them.

 

Well said indeed. I think that as we move forward if the BBS change becomes a problem it will be addressed. While we wait for GG2017 to release it will be telling to see how much of a shift there is on killing vs. scheme running and as we all know that shift can also shift the worth of such a combo as we've mentioned here. With all the specifics said/mentioned I still think overall I commend the team for the direction they're moving. Overall I think they've done a great job in aligning things, and I also commend them in their honesty that in a short time (6-7 months) we'll see another update that adjust this. 

My personal hope is that by this time we have digital copies of cards and these changes can be made even more swiftly without people feeling frustrated with multiple purchases of cards. With that said I don't think $0.25 a card is a big deal.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Guild cuddles are baffling, not that any one of them happened but that all of that was done at once.  I would have lauded any one of these changes in a vacuum.  Guild was not very competitive in the first place* and gutting Duncan Bilz's list in this way feels more like a punishment for having one of the best North American players main the faction  same list  for so long than an actual balance pass.  I don't think this fixes the biggest issue of "papa-in-a-box" as taking Hermanos De Armas or Numb to the world on Loco basically puts him in an only slightly less optimal position.   Edit: I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that very few cheap Guild models have synergy or actual combo power.  That makes it one of the few examples that can be easily pointed to.  Especially because it can be devastating if the opponent is unaware.  Most savvy opponents are going to give it the respect and attention 13ss deserves.  I feel like the point was also missed with Autringers.  It's not the range of the focused attack that's so good, but not needing line of sight and Deliver Orders.  Edit:  Not randomizing on focused shots is going to be fun.  I actually think this might have been a stealth buff.

I'm excited for the changes to Lucius and the Guardian, but I've always felt the fix for both of these models was to make the guardian a guardsman with positives to wp duels instead of relentless and make the executioner a minion.

*UK Rankings has Guild as the worst faction and US Ranking has them almost as bad off.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, CiDevant said:

I don't think this fixes the biggest issue of "papa-in-a-box" as taking Hermanos De Armas or Numb to the world on Loco basically puts him in an only slightly less optimal position.  I feel like the point was also missed with Autringers.  It's not the range of the focused attack that's so good, but not needing line of sight and Deliver Orders.

I feel like "only slightly less optimal" is the perfect outcome for these changes. The point is not to crush Papa Loco and Austringers out of existence, just to make them a little less ubiquitous and encourage people to switch up their lists.

The general theme is to reduce non-interactive play - with Papa in a box, it's difficult for the opponent to do anything about him and his buff. Even with Numb/Hermanos, he's still going to need to be on the table where the enemy can get to him. Similarly, while the Austringers can still do their iconic thing, they're now forced to do it from a distance that means the enemy should be able to threaten them.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I feel like "only slightly less optimal" is the perfect outcome for these changes. The point is not to crush Papa Loco and Austringers out of existence, just to make them a little less ubiquitous and encourage people to switch up their lists.

The general theme is to reduce non-interactive play - with Papa in a box, it's difficult for the opponent to do anything about him and his buff. Even with Numb/Hermanos, he's still going to need to be on the table where the enemy can get to him. Similarly, while the Austringers can still do their iconic thing, they're now forced to do it from a distance that means the enemy should be able to threaten them.

I think I only explained half of how it's going to work.  You put Hermanos on him.  Use him to pull Sonnia, keep a Death Marshal nearby.  On the suicide run turn, you use Sonnia first then Hermanos to pull the DM near, if necessary, box him up and Death Marshall deliver him at the start of next turn.  Really this only makes his combo 1 SS more expensive (but not really as Frank would have had this before a Debt) and Maybe Sonnia misses out on Hold This for one extra turn.  Usually by turn 3-4 it doesn't matter anymore anyways.  

As far as ubiquitous goes I don't really think this changes much.  I think the Austringers might be in a better place now and anyone who was 13ss desperate for a positive twist to Sonnia's damage track needed to learn how to focus.  I still think you get better results swapping Papa+DM for a Peacekeeper any day of the week.

Despite my critique I am excited for change.  Like I said, I like each of the changes taken by themselves.  All at once seems a bit like a heavy handed response to the same player winning major tournaments with essentially a fixed list.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, CiDevant said:

Despite my critique I am excited for change.  Like I said, I like each of the changes taken by themselves.  All at once seems a bit like a heavy handed response to the same player winning major tournaments with essentially a fixed list.

I think the number of Guild nerfs is an unfortunate coincidence, rather than a response to an individual player's success. He was far from the only person running a Papa box, and it had been identified as a problem for a long time. Austringers were similarly identified, as far back as the design phase for Wave 2 (hence all of Lucius' former anti-Austringer clauses). They were both obvious candidates for updates. Francisco's change is just for consistency with Papa's, and isn't a tangible nerf - there was no common "Francisco-in-a-box" tactic.

Basically, I think "taken by themselves" is the right way to look at these changes. It wasn't about bringing down the Guild, just a grab-bag of problems Aaron wanted to fix that happened to include a lot of Guild stuff. In return, we got Lucius 2.0, so it's far from a bad outcome for Guild players. :)

Your Hermanos scenario for Papa sounds like a solid tactic, and far more interesting for the opponent to try to disrupt than a standard Papa box. And as you say, maybe more people will learn to Focus better! Both of those would be great outcomes for the game.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aaron The OP for Lucius' Elite Training says melee actions, but the card says :melee. This is probably simply me getting hung up on terminology, but, as I recall, melee action means anything with Ml, as opposed to :melee.

Just a curiosity, and I'm very excited to try out Lucius (and the Scribe) after the buffs.

Edit: I do think :melee is better, as it's more versatile. Additionally, the austringers' raptor attack still says it ignores cover, despite no longer having the :ranged.

Edited by Xekros
Further information
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

The fact that the just invalidated old FAQ prevented the condition they gave out from being able to be affected by the pustule effect, as it was a condition and not an ability. Illuminated are already arguably the best 7 as minion in the game without letting a black blood shaman give them black blood and then constantly ping them for Dmg they instantly heal to do 4 unresistable damage to anything in combat with them as well as then buffing or instantly healing them as well depending on the trigger they get.

What makes the damage unresistible? Because I assume you are talking about Black Blood Postule, which does 2 damage without any comments about ignoring armour/reduction, so a model with armour +1 or better would get only get 1 damage from each cast of BBP.

---

Were people actually using focus on Austringers more than once in a blue moon? What I found annoying with them was standing behind blocking & impassable terrain and spamming their raptor, focusing would just make them randomise in engagements, so I guess now they are better if someone wants to focus to be able to cheat the damage. So in essence Austringers got buffed, because that was needed... A change that would actually make them feel reasonable would be to give them a minus to shooting if they don't have LoS, like Willie's Demo Charge.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Were people actually using focus on Austringers more than once in a blue moon? What I found annoying with them was standing behind blocking & impassable terrain and spamming their raptor, focusing would just make them randomise in engagements, so I guess now they are better if someone wants to focus to be able to cheat the damage. So in essence Austringers got buffed, because that was needed... A change that would actually make them feel reasonable would be to give them a minus to shooting if they don't have LoS, like Willie's Demo Charge.

Yep you're right, now they can shoot in engagment when they focus. But with Sh7 and no malus for cover, it's often more efficient to shoot twice than focus + shoot. Now models could be outside austringers bubble and in center of table at the same time (except when austringer are in center of table, but it's not a good place for them).

 

And +1 with the question of Kobayashi.

 

and the scribe is always a peon on the card. ôo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information