Molly for new player

[Cheshiredog]

I want to start ressers, and do it with bang My first choice is spirit Molly. 

I saw pull my finger and many topics on this forum. I hope I won't double any already asked questions.

1. Do people play Molly with Hannah, additional card looks nice, and she can copy many CA in Molly lists
2. How many models for summons should I have, one of each is OK? Or maybe some are better and 3 are needed? (i am asking for spirit Molly).
3. What Molly dislike? (enenmy masters or some schemes?)
4. My idea for first list is below, can you try to judge it?

	Name
	Molly Squidpiddge		6 ss cache
	Forgotten Path	1
	Tear of the Gorgon	3
	Philip and the Nanny	8
	Madam Sybelle	8
	Bleeding Tongue	1
	Necropunk	5
	Izamu the Armor	10
	Dead Doxy	6
	Rotten Belle	5

Thank you for help.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Spirit Molly tends to be my preferred build with her and I've been saying it's the most powerful of her builds for awhile, so I'll see if I can assist you with anything you might need.

1: I don't, but that's more a combination of preferences than an outright dismissal of Hannah's potential. For me it's a combination of the facts that she isn't a spirit, and thus has no inherent synergies in the list and will require careful positioning to not get damaged by my own black blood, and the fact that I don't own the model. The biggest factor being she isn't a spirit or a belle.

2: For this it really depends on how you use her summons. Ideally you want as many as you will ever summon of something. If your friends will let you proxy for awhile play some games and figure out what you regularly summon and then buy accordingly. For myself I tend to focus on a few models. Onryo to to be one of my default low value summon models. Their ability to easily hand out Adversary, as well as the negative effects that occur if one is killed tends to make it the most common summon I do, and you can tend to get away with between 2 and 4. After that you will absolutely want (2) Hanged, as they are one of the models that actually makes Spirit Molly powerful. Hanged are rubbish to hire, but absolutely frightening to summon, and then just have go due to her 0 action on a limited upgrade and her accomplice ability. After that you'll want both Goryo (which haven't been officially released yet) and Shikome. The ideal numbers being between 2 and 3 Goryo and 2 Shikome. You will also want the drowned due to their resilience, and ability to just drop a scheme marker when they die, like when Molly summons one nowhere close to an enemy, effectively allowing you to turn an AP and a suited card or stone into a Scheme Marker drop with some flexibility in range.

3: Molly dislikes anything that kills her. Basically she is one of the squishiest Resser masters because she HAS to operate close to the enemy to get anything really effective done, and she synergizes with her crew so well that she is going to be a prime target. Anything that destroys cards from her hand, or gets around her impossible to wound (IE high min damage models) or deny's triggers is something to watch out for. Positioning Molly and her other models in ways that minimize direct threats to her person and keeps them focused on her summons and the rest of her crew is one of the things you need to master quickly.

4: In regards to your list keep in mind this is a personal opinion, and is in no way indicative of its actual effectiveness or a reflection on you. I'm not a fan of your list, firstly because I don't know what conditions you are planning to run it under (IE what scenario, what opposing faction, what the terrain looks like), but also because you are missing some things I feel are vital, while overloading your list on other things that will produce inefficiencies.

First a good portion of the models in your list are neither Spirits, nor are they Belles. That inherently weakens the synergies that Molly, and in particular the Adversary condition provides. That isn't to say you should only use spirits, but you need to really be careful about what you pick and why. One of the big issues I see is that you have too many models requiring high value cards to be flipped to have cost effectiveness. Molly is already going to be a massive drain on your hand, but you've compounded that issue by including both a Doxy and a Necropunk, both of which require a 7+ to be flipped to take advantage of the Doxy's take the lead, and the Necropunk's leap. That could be alright if you have a plan for them on how they are effective if neither of those abilities goes off, but if you don't you could have problems.

You're also using the Gorgon's Tear, and in this particular build I can't really understand why. You are essentially paying 3 stones to get terrifying 12... which is just too expensive I find. Sure you can use it on other things, but playing Molly you are almost ALWAYS going to be using your limited upgrade's 0 action to give an AP to another spirit or Belle in range, so the instinctual needs another 0 action to take, and her 0 action on her card, while good, is also expensive in both TN and suits and can only target a minion, which means you are unlikely to be repeatedly using it if you are summoning, and even if you were 3 stones just for the ability to use it more often is just a massive cost. So you'll most often be using it for the terrifying ability, and at 3 stones I just don't feel the cost is worth it. There are some builds that I can see an argument for the Tear, but I personally find it's mostly a trap.

You are also missing a few upgrades that should be in every spirit Moly list. The first is Take Back the Night, which can only be attached to a Horror, but lets you draw a card when a spirit or Horror Kills an enemy model. Given how card hungry Molly is this should almost always go in your list, though who carries it can vary. I usually have Molly Carry it. You will also want to have a new upgrade from the recent book called Wronged Spirits. It gives Onryo in a 10" aura +1 wk and +1 Cg, as well as being able to discard the upgrade to give all Onryo a focus condition. It costs nothing, and even if you don't hire any, if you even have the slightest inkling you will potentially summon an Onryo, you will want it along. So the only reason not to bring this in spirit Molly is if every single upgrade slot on models you bring is filled.

Madam Sybelle is also an interesting choice. I do like her and use her a bit, but in spirit builds you have a few things to consider. Yes she can speed Molly up, but as you aren't using a Killjoy Bomb in this list there really isn't a lot of incentive to get Molly to the front lines as quickly as possible. Additionally Madam Sybelle isn't a Belle, and she isn't a spirit, so she won't be able to be a target for Molly's 0 action, she will get damaged by Black Blood if she positions badly, and she won't get attack buffs due to the Adversary condition. I'm not saying don't take her, but make sure you know specifically why you are bringing her. The biggest advantage I see being that she gives your belle, doxy, and Molly the Walk buff. I'm just not sure that walk buff is worth the cost you pay for her.

 

If I were building an all comers intro list with Molly, I might suggest the following:

 

Molly: Forgotten Path, Take Back the Night, Wronged Spirits (6 SS Cache)

The Graveyard Spirit

Izamu

Datsue-Ba: Spirit Whispers

Philip and the Nanny: Haunting Cries

Dead Doxy

Jaakuna Ubume

4 SS minion of choice. I tend to bring a Crooligan or the Carrion Effigy. You could also sub a Night Terror in and bring the My Little Helper upgrade on Jaakuna or Izamu. 

[Cheshiredog]

11 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

so I'll see if I can assist you with anything you might need.

 

Thanks for help

You made all good points. I don't want to argue with you, I am new resser player so this list was weak. I never thought about Black Blood case with Madam and Hannah.
My idea was:

- Necropunk to do schemes
- Izamu is spirit, it would be the killing force in this list
- Madam to act as TAXI for Molly
- Doxy + Belle for Lure and push, yes I can summon that, but they will end in middle of enemy crew
- Philip for card draw
- Gorgon tear to discourage enemy (another WP test to take)
I would mostly summon cheaper models close to enemy to block charge lanes and shooting, in cases where I have 13 in hand I would summon Hanged.
That list was to learn game and Molly, also to avoid choice - paralyze, where I have so many options, that I don't know what to do. 

But mostly, after your post I saw how hungry those models are, that was great! Now I need to rethink Molly and how she works

Thanks again.

[Cheshiredog]

One more question, can someone explain what are main differences for Horror and Spirit Molly?

I think that:
- Spirit Molly has better synergy and combos, everything is based on adversary and spirits. As a bonus sometimes models have Incorporeal. In this version Molly has summons for most every crow card. Her playstyle may have bigger depth, because many spirits can do nasty tricks.
- Horror Molly is more straightforward, you go for enemy face -Rogue Necromancy, Punk Zombie and Killjoy. You mostly aim to play aggressive and summon things that will kill enemy with brutal force.
New models may focus on horror Molly more, (Draugr, Archie, Emissary)


Anything to add?

[DoctorWhat]

On 12/20/2016 at 3:25 PM, Cheshiredog said:

One more question, can someone explain what are main differences for Horror and Spirit Molly?

I think that:
- Spirit Molly has better synergy and combos, everything is based on adversary and spirits. As a bonus sometimes models have Incorporeal. In this version Molly has summons for most every crow card. Her playstyle may have bigger depth, because many spirits can do nasty tricks.
- Horror Molly is more straightforward, you go for enemy face -Rogue Necromancy, Punk Zombie and Killjoy. You mostly aim to play aggressive and summon things that will kill enemy with brutal force.
New models may focus on horror Molly more, (Draugr, Archie, Emissary)


Anything to add?

Spirits tend to be more fragile, but also have the bonus of the Adversary condition. There are also more spirits to summon and Datsue Ba is an incredible henchman.

Horrors tend to be sturdier and more consistent, but don't have ways to do more. Molly's Emissary Conflux also favors horrors slightly, but really just bridges both sides.

Belles and Sybelle are always great. Philip is wonderful if you have the resources to back him up (even if that's just a Necropunk dancing around while Philip gives you cards).

Both have great beaters (Archie, Rogue Necromancies, Killjoy, Izamu) that are usually overkill. A very fun thing to do is take Killjoy (start buried), activate Molly last, summon the Necrotic Machine at max range but not within 2 inches of an enemy, let it immediately die, pop out killjoy, hand him an AP if you're in range, and go to town. It's not as good as what Hamelin/Nix can do, but you get more powerful backup. Feel free to use Sybelle to add another 9 inches to the slingshot and be able to recall Molly if she gets pressured.

[MeatAndFauxtatoes]

On 19/12/2016 at 11:41 PM, Cheshiredog said:

1. Do people play Molly with Hannah, additional card looks nice, and she can copy many CA in Molly lists
2. How many models for summons should I have, one of each is OK? Or maybe some are better and 3 are needed? (i am asking for spirit Molly).
3. What Molly dislike? (enenmy masters or some schemes?)
4. My idea for first list is below, can you try to judge it?

	Molly Squidpiddge		6 ss cache
	Forgotten Path	1
	Tear of the Gorgon	3
	Philip and the Nanny	8
	Madam Sybelle	8
	Bleeding Tongue	1
	Necropunk	5
	Izamu the Armor	10
	Dead Doxy	6
	Rotten Belle	5

Thank you for help.

1. I've never used Hannah with Molly, Hannah probably wouldn't be a bad choice to be honest.

2. You will want all of the resser spirits to summon eventually. The amount that comes in each box of spirits is how many you will want, you wont use them all every game but there will be games where you bring out 2 shikome or 3 drowned for example. If you're beginning spirit Molly my 3 picks for spirits that are an absolute MUST are Hanged, Drowned and Onryo. The rest are all really great too and you will want them eventually.

3. As a spirit Molly player I really hate facing aggressive masters like Misaki. As far as schemes she can do most of them relatively well, though there are obvious ones like undercover breakthrough/entourage that are not really her forte. 

4. This list will be fine to learn her crew with, this is very similar to my regular list. Molly can generally get by with the same base list and swap 1 or 2 models out for each game and summon models reactively to suit the game. 

Tear of the Gorgon is a points sink in this list. Tear of the Gorgon is fantastic if you're using Maniacal Laugh. Generally with Molly you will use her (0) to make a spirit take an action every turn, the (0) to reactivate a model is resource intensive and will often fail if you don't have the suit in your hand, it's certainly not worth burning a stone for most of the time either. Her last (0) to gain Terrifying isn't worth 3SS over the course of the game either.

With this list I would recommend swapping Tear of the Gorgon for the Necrotic Machine and +1 SS to your cache so that you may have a full cache of 7, the extra soulstone makes a world of difference when you draw a hand full of high cards yet devoid of crows. The Necrotic Machine can inject Sybelle and give her black blood, this is great if you want to get Sybelle in to the mix and keep her safer. The necrotic machine isn't vital, but it's very useful to use his (0) to bring Philip and your Doxy forward after they've activated and done all of their card draw goodness. He's also a cheap activation.

Sybelle is great for the taxi, walking is for chumps. Being able to summon in to the enemy crew on turn 1 is huge, being able to use Sybelle to teleport Molly to safety is also really good.

Anyway, hope this helps.

[Fluffaluffacus]

I thought hannah could only take ca off of masters if they are Friekorps.

[Freman]

I think he means other units with Ca abilities in Molly's crew.