Opinions on TOS table size?

[ChoriQueso]

I HOPE there's a widely acceptable way to play TOS on a 4X4 surface once its released... I've built a 5X5 custom gaming table for general gaming and then built a 4X4 terrain table that fits inside made specifically for Malifaux... I don't even know where I would store ANOTHER custom terrain surface that's even bigger than the one I already have...

 

Is this a complete non issue for most of you? Or are you also disappointed that we're not sticking with the Malifaux standard? What's yer opinions?

[Emberlost]

The 4x6 table size is a holdover from Battlemallet and 40k.

Strangely enough, my local game store owner told me there is a reason for the 4x6 play area, at least according to his GW rep. Apparently that's the standard size for a dining room table in Europe.

[Gnomezilla]

After you buy a table from a gaming store that's gone out of business, it's a non-issue.  (They're two very solid folding tables just shy of 3'x3', with a painted plywood 6'x4' overlay. If we ever disassembled the setup, it'd rest against the wall about 6" deep.) Cards for the Other Side will explicitly have to rest on the gaming surface, though, as opposed to the Malifaux edge-of-the-board setup.

[retnab]

4x6 feels pretty standard to me (but my first wargame was 40k way back when, so).  The only thing I don't much like about the larger size is having to reach across a large board, I've come to appreciate the smaller 3x3 of Malifaux.  But since it looks like most of the bases on the board are going to be 80-120mm, it makes sense that a larger size would be used.

[MrLlaine]

I too hope the game will be playable on a smaller surface, 4x6 is really huge and impractical, plus I resized my gaming table to 4x4 to accomodate both WM and malifaux, and I'm not going to go back the bigger one, it eats way too much space around the table. 

[JDAntoine]

11 hours ago, ShavenSkaven said:

Is this a complete non issue for most of you? Or are you also disappointed that we're not sticking with the Malifaux standard? What's yer opinions?

It is a complete non-issue for me. By large because I come from a Warmachine/Hordes and Warhammer background. If you want to incorporate a real army feel and army scale the bigger tables, such as 4x4 or 4x6 usually work out much better, as it allows for more movement and also allows for 120mm bases to not be a significant hinder in terrain dense tables.
The key to keep in mind here is that The Other Side so far looks like an army miniatures game, where Malifaux, Mordheim, Bloodbowl, Guildball and many others like that are much more skirmish miniature games.

As someone who has that Warmachine/Hordes background I can say that 120mm bases can become a hassle at 4x4 tables, at a given moment models can get stuck behind it or the 120mm base can get stuck in general. The mayority of pieces in The Other Side seems to be mounted on 80mm bases (Fireteams) and 120mm bases (Fireteams, Titans and 50mm plugs) so for me it's quite logical to see this game being played on 4x6. Initially I expected a 4x4 table but as mentioned in the same other topic I also expected to have around 20-30 miniatures instead of 45-ish.

Malifaux to me will remain a great skimirsh game I'll also continue to play but I am looking very forward to Wyrd's approach to an army game. The prime difference between the two should be the manouvrability of your force and number of models, meaning that it feels more logical to have a skimirsh game with characters moving in all directions while an army (due to it's size) should be slightly less manouvrable. 

Like all wargames I do believe that 4x4 can totally work out but only at a specific size. Due to costs involved and this being a brand new game I do believe that for the upcomming months 4x4 likely will be sufficient but as is I expect this to stop functioning as you want once you play the game at the larger scales. 
When we look at the cards we see several options to create terrain, new models and basically all the things that poor character into an army if you'd do that on a 4x4 things get clogged up really fast and like Malifaux' use for 1/3rd terrain tables (or 1'x3' ammount of terrain) I believe 4x6 is purposefully chosen to allow for board control that still feels avoidable and thus balanced. 

Every aspect of any game can become a limitation this applies from top to bottom and from table to cards, 4x6 allows for a lot of space to have meaningful terrain interactions.

 

[spielervier]

11 hours ago, Emberlost said:

Apparently that's the standard size for a dining room table in Europe.

They lied to you. I can barely fit a 3"x3" gaming mat onto my table. A 6"x3" mat would be fit as well, but anything with n"x4" would just not fit. And I live in the center of Europe

[yool1981]

Agreed. If you have a flat and not a house, 6x4 can be a real pain. 3x3 is perfect but ill-suited for anything other than skirmish games.

This is an army scale game so it is logical that the table is bigger. 4x4 would also be too small from what I unterstood about the base/tray sizes.

[Whumbachumba]

Well, we have a 7x4 game table in our house and our FLGS has only 6x4 tables, so the size is perfect. Malifaux Monday's are nice because we can get 2 games per table, but I really like larger scale games.

[Souleater]

I'm fairly confident that Wyrd want this game to be different to Malifaux.

 

There are common elements, of course.

 

But those asking for this to work as a skirmish game may be disappointed . 

[deadmanwade]

Last weekend I played on a 6'x12' table. Admittedly my friends and I had to rent a small meeting room at our local community center to do that, but where there is a will (and some cash), there is a way.

For people playing at home, Malifaux's 3'x3' is pretty achievable, but it really is skirmish size. TOS is meant to be a larger scale of gaming (though still very much a skirmish between small forces), that means either the table gets bigger or the minis get smaller. For 28mm scale models, 6'x4' is pretty standard. While it might not really be the average size of dining tables, it's not impossible to fit a table that size into a house/garage/large shed.

Recently there has been a trend towards smaller tables and low model count games. Malifaux and Warmahordes seem to be at the forefront of that, making games playable in a smaller space, with less outlay in painting time and set-up and thus more accessible for everyone. Wyrd looks to be trying to diversify their games portfolio, so TOS doesn't follow the same pattern as Malifaux. What would really be the point if it did? 

So maybe it's time to invest in bigger furniture or perhaps you can clear some space on the floor? If that doesn't work, club together with some friends and see if a local community center will suit your gaming needs.

[Tris]

As it's an army and not a skirmish game I'm not surprised to see that a bigger table is needed, it would feel very clumped up otherwise - if you have issues fitting a table of that size in your home, just try to get to play in a brick and mortar store?

Most of them should have 40k tables ready for you and are sure happy to acommodate more players

 

And who knows, if you show up there regularly and play with your friends, they might even consider to put TOS in stock?

[Inquisitor Wall]

The game store I play at has 6x4 tables for warhammer so it is really not an issue when playing there, but I have become much happier only needing a 3x3 set up at home instead of the 6x4 that took up most of my hobby space.

[JDAntoine]

As I see it the 4x4 will work out well with 1 Commander and 4x6 will work out well with 2 Commanders. The game eventually will be played on the latter but as mentioned, there is no real need to worry about it too much now. I'll happily play on both sizes, as is you'll simply need more space per Commander because a lot of their interactions function well with more Fireteams in one place and 80mm to 120mm bases simply put thake up a nice ammount of space and we all want to have some terrain on our boards aswell.

[Cinnamon Bear]

I would be pretty happy if one commander games could be played on a 4x4 surface.

[JDAntoine]

4 hours ago, Cinnamon Bear said:

I would be pretty happy if one commander games could be played on a 4x4 surface.

Well they did so for the gameplay video

But this remains an army game so more is cooler and makes things more exciting.

[Shrapnelsmile]

6' x 4' is standard for most squad-level 28mm games.  I appreciate the acknowledgement that this is beyond skirmish and different from Malifaux in approach.

For those in a pinch with space, discount stores sell 6' x 2.5' or so snap-secured plastic tables for super cheap.  Some in my gaming circle have 2 neatly stored and can produce

a large playing surface instantly,  with easy take-down after the match.  Pitch in for a nice F.A.T. mat or something similar and you are on par with what most game shops can even offer.

 

 

[JDAntoine]

Absolutely, the local hardware store in my country also sells mdf plates of 2x4 for roughly 5 euro a piece, depending on thickness.
It's easy to get something going, it just depends on how much you want it really. The current project I'm working on can easily be used for Malifaux, Warhammer and The Other Side aswell.

 

Making a table like this is only a matter of willing to make time.

[Moefear]

I think I would have been happier if they reduced everything by 50%.  So it would be played on a 3x2 table, with 40mm and 60mm models.

 

[solkan]

14 minutes ago, Moefear said:

I think I would have been happier if they reduced everything by 50%.  So it would be played on a 3x2 table, with 40mm and 60mm models.

 

But that would reduce the small troops to 14 or 15mm and put the terrain scale in a different bracket.

 

[JDAntoine]

21 minutes ago, Moefear said:

I think I would have been happier if they reduced everything by 50%.  So it would be played on a 3x2 table, with 40mm and 60mm models.

You'll end up with some really fiddly miniatures... I personally never was a fan of Epic Warhammer stuff, by large because I feel it removes too much from the hobby. This way you can end up with a great game that will look like your playing with ants. On top of that most miniatures are 32mm-28mm scale, meaning every Malifaux hill, building, forest, wall etc. you'll have can also be used for The Other Side.

Personally I feel if you really want to convey a Army game/warfare battle then 32-28mm miniatures on a 4x6 board is the way to go. There are a lot of games who go for something in-between but at the end of the day you'll still end up with something that feels more akin to a Skirmish than actual War. What I like so much about TOS, more than anything, is that we will eventually have the option to run 2-3 Commanders, this allows for a real army to be put onto the table and also allows you to really go for a massive tactical depth versus easy to understand rules in it's core but over a dozen choices to make.

Obviously I'm a fan of the work, my only excuse for not backing more is that I'm seriously looking for the Guild to become an Earthside faction. However the spoiled gameplay is exactly what I always hoped an army game would become, easy to understand/hard to master. There are several games who allow you to bank on the fact that certain pieces are very difficult to remove, the problem that often comes out from this is that things can become too difficult to remove and thus create a specific unbalance (seen in 40k Flyers or currently in too cheap Heavies in Warmachine). 
If Titans are the design I hope them to be they will be awesome assets that allow you to differ from the usual Soldier, more in the fact that you get more space to work with in terms of firepower but not so much in terms of it being "the best indestructable model".

[retnab]

Doing everything at half size might work pretty nicely for playtesting before we actually get the models, you could have the 40mm "fireteams" be single models with a standard Wd count probably pretty well.

Also wanted to point out that in the KS comments Lindsey said that: "Yes 4x4 is a great size for 1 Commander games."  So that's an option too.

[Dogmantra]

13 minutes ago, solkan said:

But that would reduce the small troops to 14 or 15mm and put the terrain scale in a different bracket.

Not necessarily! What if instead of being multiple models spread horizontally across a bigger base, a fireteam consisted of models sitting on each others' shoulders? Or perhaps each model could come with a large hat that serves as its friend's base? You could even have a Tower of Hanoi rule where you can stack smaller models onto larger ones, but not vice versa - no titans standing on top of regular troops, that would be ridiculous!

[JDAntoine]

5 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Not necessarily! What if instead of being multiple models spread horizontally across a bigger base, a fireteam consisted of models sitting on each others' shoulders?

You could also back for 1 box, cut everything in half (including the table) and be done with it. 

Jokes aside, 32-28mm models are fun to paint and more or less the golden miniature game standard. 4x6 tables are respectfully large but also a common used size for the likes of Warhammer. 

[JimO]

On 12/12/2016 at 5:36 PM, Gnomezilla said:

...Cards for the Other Side will explicitly have to rest on the gaming surface, though, as opposed to the Malifaux edge-of-the-board setup.

This is my main concern.  It's not a huge deal, but you're effectively going to be playing on a 3x6, with 6 inches of "stuff" per player on the edges.  I suppose calling it a 4x6 allows the deployment zone to push up toward that realistic 3x6 without having to do weird things like deploy right on the back edge.  

I get that it allows the use of a standard table. But I do like the idea of a 4x4 so I've got a foot of space for tokens/cards/etc.