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Krellnus

Promises

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20 hours ago, Krellnus said:

See I find myself making the same amount of MI attacks in a turn (in a melee list) but of those I usually only need 1-4 to actually hit their target, any other hits are a bonus and the models I need to hit, might not necessarily have upgrades.

I notice people keep listing scenarios where Promises is good, I never denied that it was good, I question why it was a must-take in most guild lists. Is it just one of those things you either swear by or swear off? Because that is starting to seem like the case to me.

I will always take it on a suitable model if there is room for it, but I will not often bring Sidir into a non-McCabe crew. When I get Queeg he will see some play with Lucius (and McCabe!) when I get Lucius assembled. Promises is the primary (or very close to) reason I would bring one of these models into a non-McCabe crew. I find it a cheap way to improve my odds in-game.

Also, in campaign games (at least from what I recall), Injuries are considered Upgrades.

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The freshly assembled lawyer debuted tonight. His native 0 action was exactly what Queeg desired as he sauntered towards the action (while provoking the lawyer to keep him hard to wound). They go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Now if only the lawyer had been able to go on the offensive instead of providing amusement to the non-Malifaux playing audience by failing to sue anything worthwhile...

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I like to take Queeg when Mark for Death, Exhaust their Forces or Catch and Release are on the table, or Headhunter.  The Aura is good to let your crew Mark, Exhaust or Tag as a 0, and the (built-in?) Trigger to push on a 3" Melee can move people away from the heads so you can pick them up.  His free push of your models can pull them out of engagement so they can remove their own Exhaust or Tag.

At that point, one extra point for Promises is pretty much a no-brainer.

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I will give Queeg a try in a Lady J list next week  we rolled head hunter

 

Lady J
Executioner
Judge
Brutal Emmisary
Queeg
all with some upgrade

an austringer
+ death marshal

 

lots of melee + flips

 

Just one question for Queeg his interact aura states it can be used once per turn.  Does this mean once each model per turn or  just once a turn no matter with model uses it?

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, AK1979 said:

I will give Queeg a try in a Lady J list next week  we rolled head hunter

 

Lady J
Executioner
Judge
Brutal Emmisary
Queeg
all with some upgrade

an austringer
+ death marshal

 

lots of melee + flips

 

Just one question for Queeg his interact aura states it can be used once per turn.  Does this mean once each model per turn or  just once a turn no matter with model uses it?

 

 

 

 

Queeg can only do the action once to put the aura up. After that any friendly model can benefit from that aura any number of times. A different model able to copy actions would also be allowed to copy Queegs action to put up an aura of it's own but only once and you couldn't obey Queeg to do it again (altough even if you could it would be useless).

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So... Queeg is priced like an enforcer, has some sweet movement and debuffing tricks, in a faction which has few which can do the same, mainly because most of the other henchmen (Bar Dade) are beaty to da face...

And people are complaining he does not beat face...?

...?

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9 hours ago, HowNot2Wargame said:

So... Queeg is priced like an enforcer, has some sweet movement and debuffing tricks, in a faction which has few which can do the same, mainly because most of the other henchmen (Bar Dade) are beaty to da face...

And people are complaining he does not beat face...?

...?

Haha! We don't want guild to be only the damage dealing boeing faction, we want cool support abilities AND min damage 3 ;)  This page of the thread didn't seem to mind his damage output.

If anything I would complain that he needs a discard to do what a hunter does automatically with it's Sh attack.

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I think Dade can be pretty beaty to the face as with A Debt and a Henchman she can do 2+3 damage min :P

I`d like him to have the ram built in so you either do 1 and push or 2. 

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Pretty much everything has been said what there is to say about it. I feel that in general Malifaux has the typical: 'Almost everything has it's use but not everything will use it'.

Promises is great with Queeg and general amazing with McCabe builds. However McCabe builds for the Guild allready are kinda specific, for example not thaking Guild Hounds really has to have a reason and likewise almost every Master likes different crew combinations. Papa Loco and Death Marshal for example are solid gold in Sonnia's crew but for my Perdita or Lady Justice crews I don't look for that combination, heck IF I run Papa with Dita it's on his own two feet and with Numb...

All I can say is share the build aswell and don't try to judge anything just by itself :D. Promises can be great but your obviously searching for more synergy as soon as you add the Upgrade but this aplies for a ton of Upgrades really. 

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9 hours ago, JDAntoine said:

Pretty much everything has been said what there is to say about it. I feel that in general Malifaux has the typical: 'Almost everything has it's use but not everything will use it'.

Promises is great with Queeg and general amazing with McCabe builds. However McCabe builds for the Guild allready are kinda specific, for example not thaking Guild Hounds really has to have a reason and likewise almost every Master likes different crew combinations. Papa Loco and Death Marshal for example are solid gold in Sonnia's crew but for my Perdita or Lady Justice crews I don't look for that combination, heck IF I run Papa with Dita it's on his own two feet and with Numb...

All I can say is share the build aswell and don't try to judge anything just by itself :D. Promises can be great but your obviously searching for more synergy as soon as you add the Upgrade but this aplies for a ton of Upgrades really. 

I'm not saying that Promises is a must pick for every list. Sonnia definitely has better things to spend the points on for example, but virtually every other Guild master with the exception of say Hoffman and Lucius (who cares about him though) gets tons of mileage from it. I'd consider it verging on mandatory for the likes of McMourning and Justice and is probably mandatory for Nellie if you're aiming to kill stuff (seriously, the Phiona + Promises + Propaganda + Frank wombo is disgusting), while it's merely great for everyone else (dat soft immunity to WP duels for Perdita's family models).

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1 minute ago, Inquisitor Wall said:

Promises seems awesome for Hoffman.  With the ability to throw modifications out you can choose which models get the bonuses, and can get the positive flips on minions easier.  

It'd be decent I think with Sidir who also runs By Your Side to cockblock forced movement which Hoffman's crew is exceedingly vulnerable to, but it comes at a pretty considerable tax given it's thrown on a non-construct. I'd say it's good, but probably not as good as it is on most other Guild masters.

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24 minutes ago, Surrealistik said:

It'd be decent I think with Sidir who also runs By Your Side to cockblock forced movement which Hoffman's crew is exceedingly vulnerable to, but it comes at a pretty considerable tax given it's thrown on a non-construct. I'd say it's good, but probably not as good as it is on most other Guild masters.

It's kind of annoying to add a non-construct with wk 4 that you still need to keep in the bubble. I'm not a Hoffman player but I was under the impression that he didn't need that kind of baggage. I'd rather take the Emmissary for less stones, a construct with wk 6 that gives the same buff to any looped model I believe.

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

It's kind of annoying to add a non-construct with wk 4 that you still need to keep in the bubble. I'm not a Hoffman player but I was under the impression that he didn't need that kind of baggage. I'd rather take the Emmissary for less stones, a construct with wk 6 that gives the same buff to any looped model I believe.

Exactly. It's the opportunity cost that really hurts as does the Wk 4, and I definitely agree that it's hard to justify Sidir over the alternatives for Hoff, even though he is pretty good. You could go for 8 SS Queeg to save a couple of SS (and lose Sidir's sweet range/forced movement block), but again, I think the opportunity cost is probably too high.

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3 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

Sidir really needs By Your Side baked in or at the very least 0 SS. :\

I think it should be baked in; now you have some sweet synergy with Numb while still being able to take Promises.

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I think the only reason to take Sidir was By Your Side and Promises. Now Queeg can handle Promises so poor Sidir is left with is By Your Side :(

I think in Guild he suffers from the 5 df, 6 wp, 10 Wdish, shooting + melee henchman for 9 stones which have their unique stuff on upgrades.

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8 minutes ago, trikk said:

I think the only reason to take Sidir was By Your Side and Promises. Now Queeg can handle Promises so poor Sidir is left with is By Your Side :(

I think in Guild he suffers from the 5 df, 6 wp, 10 Wdish, shooting + melee henchman for 9 stones which have their unique stuff on upgrades.

The Wk 4 is what really hurts him IMO; that and not being able to take By Your Side with Numb AND Promises. If he had Wk 5, and BYS was built in, I'd run him more frequently. Giving him HtK certainly wouldn't hurt either because he can be a bit squishy, and it synergizes nicely with the whole bodyguard thing/self heal.

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8 minutes ago, trikk said:

I think in Guild he suffers from the 5 df, 6 wp, 10 Wdish, shooting + melee henchman for 9 stones which have their unique stuff on upgrades.

Yuuuuuuup.  :mellow:

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

It's kind of annoying to add a non-construct with wk 4 that you still need to keep in the bubble. I'm not a Hoffman player but I was under the impression that he didn't need that kind of baggage. I'd rather take the Emmissary for less stones, a construct with wk 6 that gives the same buff to any looped model I believe.

Emissary doesn't give the positive flip to willpower I so desperately need (my meta is such that I get mileage out of the guild sergeant just from the willpower boost to my wardens) so Queeg stays in, particularly if he pushes Hoffman's construct bubble and himself upfield and then Hoffman heals back the damage.

I might have taken Sidir once since assembling Queeg, in yet another shot at pulling off the McCabe/Sidir paralyze pulse guns stunt. (And then Trixiebelle happened. Bright green flash beats black flash.)

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23 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Emissary doesn't give the positive flip to willpower I so desperately need (my meta is such that I get mileage out of the guild sergeant just from the willpower boost to my wardens) so Queeg stays in, particularly if he pushes Hoffman's construct bubble and himself upfield and then Hoffman heals back the damage.

I might have taken Sidir once since assembling Queeg, in yet another shot at pulling off the McCabe/Sidir paralyze pulse guns stunt. (And then Trixiebelle happened. Bright green flash beats black flash.)

It is a fair point that a Wp heavy meta can definitely warrant Queeg/Sidir. Having that :+fate vs Lure (or other forced move that tears Hoffman apart) gives you a chance to resist vs virtually none at all.

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13 hours ago, Surrealistik said:

I'm not saying that Promises is a must pick for every list. Sonnia definitely has better things to spend the points on for example, but virtually every other Guild master with the exception of say Hoffman and Lucius (who cares about him though) gets tons of mileage from it. I'd consider it verging on mandatory for the likes of McMourning and Justice and is probably mandatory for Nellie if you're aiming to kill stuff (seriously, the Phiona + Promises + Propaganda + Frank wombo is disgusting), while it's merely great for everyone else (dat soft immunity to WP duels for Perdita's family models).

Promises for me is exactly as you describe, there are melee orientated Masters that will like it and if you can toss out Upgrades or generally have a lot of Upgrades on everything his value starts to rise. The way I see it is that like almost everything in Malifaux it's always a worthy consideration as long as you optimize his uses.

Queeg is cheap and as a result less durable as most of our other Henchman but the advantage of this is that we suddenly have great acces to Promises. On top of being a Black Sheep he's also a Guardsman which allows for other intresting synergies aswell. 

Promises by itself can be fantastic and I believe the only real reason as to why Sidir isn't that special to us is because we have other great ranged support models in our faction but I believe that Sidir still holds a spot in Ten Thunders, like Wastrels. Which isn't really of our concern but this is typical for dual faction models, once it has overlap in-faction it also suddenly has more competition. The wonderful Queeg is Guild 'exclusive'.

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