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Nicodem woes.

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Having some troubles with Nicodem at the moment. I get a bit flustered and cant work out what to buy in the crew to start with and when to summon what. I find i am trying to summon hanged early but am i better waiting? I also feel like my positioning is wrong. Where do you put your Nico and how does the crew look like on setup? Is it worth hiring in some condition removal? he is my first and most loved master so i would like to take him as much as i can.

 

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I usually hire Morti, Chiaki and a nurse every time I play Nico. Chiaki's condition removal is great and the nurse is more or less an "Oh Shit"-Button if Nico or Morti get low on wounds. Just discard a crow, heal them full and let Chiaki remove the paralyze.

I also hire the Valedictorian very often. Just a great piece which can be useful in many situations. From there, I often go with one or two Punk Zombies. I prefer summoning cheaper models like a Rotten Belle or a Necropunk. Doesnt drain my hand that much.

From time to time I like taking Philip and the Nanny to fill up my hand cards. But that highly depends on the schemes available.

 

When it comes to positioning, I like to have nearly everyone around Nico to make the most out of his aura. So make sure everyone stay in 6" around Nico somewhere and move your death bubble over the battlefield :D

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Can't say there is any one model I always take, but I normally will take a canine remain and Mortimer. The dog for digging up bones early, then to do other stuff later on. I do find the Vulture under par so I normally go with the Carrion Effigy. Just set up at least the beat sticks within 6" and remember his ability. Just don't get too caught up in the summon or you will find yourself with nothing to do with Nicodem. I have done that a few times. 

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I always start with Philip and a Necropunk. The card draw from those 2 is amazing and almost guarantees the cards to summon what you need.

I've started taking Sebastian recently with his upgrade to turn spare mindless zombies into soulstones later in the game.  He also has some surprise synergy with Mortimers poison gun and can prime enemies for Shikomes 1ap charge.

The art of Nicodem is knowing when to NOT summon i think. Sometimes spamming fast will win you a game more than another model will.

Edit: I've assumed Mortimer and corpse bloat is a given. My little helper for another corpse turn 1 is good. Admiration is good for movement if needed too.

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I always hire Mortimer with Corpse Bloat for the "free" corpse every turn.  I used to bring My Favorite Shovel but for only 1 Ca AP I decided it's not worth the points.  I use the vulture to drag that corpse into the center (I usually play Nico into board-centric strats like Interference or Guard the Stash).  If my opponent kills the bird, then that puts two corpse markers near the center of the board which I usually turn into Punks if I can flurry on something or Hanged if I have that magical 13 just to get it out of the way.  I then look at enforcers and minions that I cannot summon, like Nurses.  I really like Phillip on scheme marker heavy pools as he can turn them into corpses, and then into cards if I need them.  Always consider models that Nic cannot summon first, before looking at hiring models he can summon.  I've never been sorry that I didn't hire a rotten belle (summon one, yes but never that I didn't hire one) but I've lamented not hiring a nurse or Chiaki many times.

 

 

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I agree with Kadeton and this is how I generally play Nicodem. I never take Mortimor - never. I feel he is a trap and then you get sucked into playing just one way with Nicodem and miss out on how great a support master he can be. 

The card drawing and all the bonuses you can give your crew can make it very difficult for your opponent. Then you summon as needed to replace losses or fill gaps depending on the schemes and strat.

I do however like the Rogue Necromancy as he can operate outside Nicodem's bubble and offer a hard hitter. Nicodem can also heal him back up, negating his one big weakness (low Df and getting beat to a pulp early).

I almost never take Corpse Bloat, but you can on someone other than Mortimer if you want to be sure to get a corpse when you need it, though I almost never find myself strapped for corpses. 

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@Kadeton Love it....i really want to try something different! So no corpse bloat or markers to start the game?

Whats your thoughts on killjoy? I love the big fatman....expensive but he reminds me of WoW abominations

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So something like

Nico- necrotic King, Maniacal Laugh and Undertaker

Sybelle- not too banged up and bleeding tongue

Izamu- decaying aura

3 belles

Necropunk

 

Forget about summoning until some corpse markers appear. What about the Vulture to go out and grab corpse markers and bring them back to Nicodem?

Thanks guys....you have re-energised me!

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6 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Everything (other than Nico) should be Undead. Yeah, this means giving up on a lot of the usual recommendations and crutches - Mortimer, Nurses, Chiaki, etc - that everyone tells you to take. It's okay! Digging up corpses and spamming out summons is the shallow end of the pool. The deep end can be scary, but you'll end up a much better swimmer.

I mostly agree with this. I still bring Mortimer for the corpse digging and the other things he brings to the table (I've won multiple games solely because of Chatty) and sometimes bring Anna or the Forgotten Marshall depending on the schemes or matchup, but otherwise it's all Undead, all the time. Well, other than the Graveyard Spirit, but he plays into the same Undead buffing Nico does. I've used Nurses with him once, and that was for a specific scenario (Painkillers in Divergent Paths) and have never used Chiaki -- while they do great things, they take away from other synergies that I'd rather spend more time and resources on, and that have done me a lot of good on the table.

And while I do play a summoning game with Nicodem, I typically only actually summon things every other turn, instead throwing around Rigor to give my guys Fast or Slow crucial enemy models. That aspect of his chicanery alone can turn a game, and that only barely starts to touch on the rest of what Kadeton brings up. 

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2 hours ago, Morgy said:

@Kadeton Love it....i really want to try something different! So no corpse bloat or markers to start the game?

Whats your thoughts on killjoy? I love the big fatman....expensive but he reminds me of WoW abominations

I'm usually not trying to grow my crew much during the game, just replacing the models that die is enough to create an unbeatable advantage over your opponent. You can always pick out the enemy Living and Undead models if you need more corpses. ;)

Killjoy is a very hard hitter, but I find his biggest issue is getting bogged down. On the turn he comes out he might get a (1) Charge, a couple of triggers and really wreck something, but the turn after that he's probably only getting two attacks unless your Master helps him out... that's assuming he's still alive, since he dies fairly easily. I like him a lot more with Tara, since her abilities let him reposition every turn, gain Fast, chain activate and win Initiative to maximise his effectiveness. Nothing beats his visual impact, though. :D

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I love the look on opponents faces as they nervously glance at the model sitting on his card waiting to unbury....its same look I get when I face him! lol.......

@Kadeton whats your thoughts on Bete Noire then?

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I have a rocky relationship with Bête, to be honest. She's one of those models that is incredibly effective in the right situation, but borderline useless in others. She's so strongly keyed to Living targets (Scent of Blood, Sever Spine) that when you come up against primarily non-Living crews she can feel severely underwhelming. Put her toe-to-toe with an armored Construct and you're just wasting your time.

In a lot of crews her main problem is that she's really card-hungry (discarding for Flurry, specific suits for triggers, and saving a 10+ for her inevitable death), so that at least is a lot less painful in a Nicodem crew. But if it came down to a choice between Bête or Sybelle for 8 stones, there's no question which I would prefer.

If you're looking for more of a "Haha, SURPRISE!" approach, maybe check out Tara or Molly - they're both pretty great at jump scares with Killjoy and Bête. :)

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If you are taking Sybelle and Belles you have the potential to empty your opponents hand when you need to, might I suggest you consider flesh constructs if not in the starting crew then at least as a priority summon.

Sybelle can potentially play as a beater not so much with raw damage but through her autokill trigger, the biggest issue I see here is that she is going to burn through resources which may be more appropriately used elsewhere.

Hanged, either purchased or summoned again offer a significant damage potential as do the students to a lesser degree and of course the rogue necromancy.

Of course if your wanting a clustered ball of death then there's always Ashigaru, punk zombies and Toshiro with a belle or two to pull things in, if you're particularly keen on Bete this might be somewhere where she could shine a little.

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1 hour ago, Morgy said:

So assuming i take Sybelle who do you recommend as my beater? I like Izamu and i havent been able to get the Valedictorian to work for me.

I like Izamu too - he doesn't really fit the ideal profile, but he's so good at hitting things that it doesn't really matter.

Datsue-Ba can be a good (and cheap!) option to keep in mind, especially if you expect to see some Armor. If you're prepared to blow some resources on her attacks, she can do incredible things.

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Having faced against Kadeton's list several times it does work really well and is quite difficult to dissect. I am trying to attempt a similar style with Ramos (but not seriously yet)

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@Kadeton Well I tried it out today. I played against a mates Dreamer crew. He is very experienced and has played the game for a while, i have never beaten him.

I took Nicodem- Necrotic King, Maniacal Laughter and Undertaker. Sybelle with Not too Banged up and Bleeder lash. Izamu with decaying aura, 3 belles and a necro punk

Strat was headhunter and schemes where convict, hunting party, show of force, covert breakthrough and detonate the charges. I took hunting party and covert breakthrough. I should have taken detonate instead of Hunting Party.

He had Dreamer, Nekima, Teddy, some daydreams and widow weaver.

Highlights of the game- first turn belle lure of widow weaver across the board to be bashed by Izamu. Nekima whispered by a summoned hanged and then lured into Izamu to finish her. Sybelle tanked the Teddy and killed him. Necropunk went off and got me covert. All of those positive flips form Nicodem was incredible. Belles luring with positive flips!! I didnt play as well as I could have I kept forgetting to Mwuhahahaha and so missed out on the card draws all game , lesson learned for next time. I ended up winning 7-5 missing out on the damn hunting party! I really need to think about my schemes more.

My opponent loved my list and thought i played it better than i have since beginning my addiction. A few tweaks and remembering other things and I feel good about the list. Im taking it to a one day tourney on the weekend. Thank you Kadeton and all who have contributed!

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On 22/11/2016 at 7:14 PM, Vorschlag said:

If you are taking Sybelle and Belles you have the potential to empty your opponents hand when you need to, might I suggest you consider flesh constructs if not in the starting crew then at least as a priority summon.
 

Reactivate being the reason i guess? what else can they add to the crew? Are you thinking tank?

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Reactivate with a trigger for positive damage flips or 3/4/6 including built in poison.

40mm base can be used to block line of sight.

Capacity to spounge a lot of hits.

I'd put then in the same box as rat kings with Hamelin when using them with Nicodem due to coming in without slow and being a low card summon.

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17 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

No thoughts on shield bearers for nico? Dismember and the mid-death corpse drop as well as a possible late game stone? I realise they are living..but still...

I've definitely been thinking about them. Especially since I tend to play an attrition game with Nicodem, I could see a place for them in my crews to start games off, perhaps one in place of a Punk Zombie or another for a Belle. I haven't been a huge fan of proxying in Malifaux though (I realize it's perfectly OK to do and don't mind when my opponent does it, I just don't like doing it myself), so I need to wait until I can get Reva's box for myself of borrow them from someone so I can test them out.

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I do have the Reva box so ill give them a try sometime but not in the Necrotic King setup....I am trying to make sure the crew is all undead......the standard crew I have been using and it seems to be able to cover most strats and schemes

Nicodem- Undertaker, Maniacal Laugh an Necrotic King

Madame Sybelle- Not too banged up and Bleeding tongue

Izamu- Decaying Aura

3 Belles

Necropunk

The necropunk has been so good getting me anywhere from 3-6 points most games. Its the strats I am having problems with. Guard the stash has been quite hard s I don't like to split up the crew.

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@Kadeton @Vorschlag @DefyingReality @LordZombie

Ran the crew today in a small 3 game touney and won it!

First game- Had a very schemey pool against gremlins first game. Took Nico with necrotic king, maniacal laugh and undertaker. Sybelle and her two upgrades. Bête noire 3 belles and 2 necro punks

Somer summoned gremlins and I lured them over to me to get some corpse markers. Summoned hanged and whispers somer. Then lure him over and finished with punk zombie. Got detonate and leave your mark with necros and extraction was easy bête took Burt Jebsen out in one flurry. 10 -3 to me

2nd game-against  Reva. Headhunter and show of force and quick murder. Replaced the necropunks with killjoy. Big bash up in the middle I kept meuhaha corpse markers so Reva couldn't do as much  Killed the budgie early with bête kept getting show of force and headhunter was pretty good but very close.

Last game against Lucius with blind deployment. Ran out of time with collect the bounty, marked for death and neutralise the leader. Only got to turn 3 but Lucius was almost dead....killed dashel turn 2 so got a few points. Overall fun and I'm enjoying my crew. Still lots to learn

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