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Need help with Dreamer


Lucky_Dice_6
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Hi everyone,

I been playing for a long time and only Neverborn.
I love Lilith an Collodi and i want to dive into Dreamer.

after palying a couple of game i am underpressed by the Dreamer.

The summoning is realy easy and we can summon strong models. But the fact that the models are on 1 wound makes it a big issue.
i know that summoning is not the only thing i need to do and only summon what you need.
Also my opponents quickly learned the you need to interact with these models before i heal them.
The only thing i haved tried is only summoning 1 model at a time and chain active it.
Do lot of poeple summong this way? or summon you out of line of sight?

Teddy,
I like the model and pushing hem around and making him more Deadly.
But Def 3 i can't protect. My apponecent can shot him to pieces.
And if i face some with blasts i am not happy.

Cards,
When i summon in 2 stiched i have of used 2 cards form my hand.
Doing soo make my summoned stiched and big beaters less efficent.
And i offen miss my attacks because my oppents will cheat his def from defending against these big attacks.
Do you offen start with models that fix cards? and how offen do you use "a game of chance"? or do you generate + flips somehow (emmisery)

Dreamer self,
I have trouble keeping hem alive, its the same problem with teddy, def 4 give problems.
and incoporeal is not everyhing.

Mayby need to play more defensively, but losing board is not what i want. And having my master and summoned models in my deployment zone is not good.
 

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Wow, this is a nice change of pace, We're much more used to the other side of the coin, people coming in and sayign how overpowered the dreamer summoning is, and how impossibel the Dreamer is to kill. 

You need to be careful what you summon and where you summon it. If it is somewhere that your opponent can kill it quickly, then you might not ant to summon it there (Unless you are happy to trade the Dreamer AP, and card you spent on the summoning on the Ap of the model that can kill you). You could also summon a model, heal it with empty night, and then summon another model and chain activate it. 

 

Teddy is powerful, but can be killed by lots of little attacks. His Impossible to wound at least means that it will not be that common that people will be able to blast from him. But if you are facing people with blasts then don't stand too close to low Df models. Cover is his friend. Also try and face only 1 or two enemies at a time, with his chance to heal 5 damage every time he activates (regen 2 plus 3 from the dreamer) he will stick around a lot longer. 

 

Keep models near the dreamer and use his triggers to pass off attacks to them, that will help his survivability. 

The card cost of summoning is one that most people don't realise when they face it. Models like the stitched work best when your opponent hasn't got a hand to defend against them. So if you are already low on cards in your hand because you are summoning, then you might want to try and hold them back till the end of turn, when hopefully your opponent has used his cards. You will need to plan what your cards can achieve and would you rather that high card to be used to summon, or to cheat in a duel. Planning you hand this way is a tough skill, but one that you need to master to get the best out of a summoner. 

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Wow, this is a nice change of pace, We're much more used to the other side of the coin, people coming in and sayign how overpowered the dreamer summoning is, and how impossibel the Dreamer is to kill. 

Thats the reason i ask the question :)

 

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Keep models near the dreamer and use his triggers to pass off attacks to them, that will help his survivability. 

which Models do you keep close to dreamer? i can't find a Nightmare that is tanky do take the hits

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Your options are essentially either a Stitched, due to their Hard to Kill making them a little more "tanky," or just surrounding him with low cost cheap models that you can easily summon back.  I typically use Daydreams or Insidious Madness nearby Dreamer to take damage if necessary.  Just keep in mind that it makes the new model the target of the attack, it doesn't only pass off the damage.  So keep an eye on any defensive abilities your nightmares have that you can capitalize on.  Especially later in the turn when your opponent might not  have much of a hand left.

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In my thought....

 

Teddy

If you can summon Teddy, Dreamer need to focus not also to summon it but also to keep it in that turn. Empty Night and Otherworldly are useful. Teddy can heal more wounds and move to take cover before your opponent reacts.  And if you have enough SS, I recommend to put a Teddy or other heavy hitter in your crew list.

 

Card

Don't forget 'summoning is great but don't need to abuse it'. Keep your good cards for most important jobs. But we have some tricks... First, Take On Wings of Darkness and Full Cache. If you really want more, Primordial Magic may be good. But it will be sacrificed when you summon daydream. And Otherworldly is useful upgrade to refill your hand. 

 

Survival

Always think to use Safe In My Bed. Any nightmare is not more important than dreamer, so just use it to keep dreamer safe. If a nightmare is killed by it, you just summon next cheap nightmare. So I think real problems are attacks ignoring Safe In My Bed. Watch out blast marker and Outcast's some attacks ignoring Burial.   

 

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Having Lelu and Lilitu near him (though not within 1" for black blood) should help. Every time one of them activates in range of hiim they both heal 3 so you're basically healing 6 damage a turn on top of their regen +1 each. Making it 8 damage per turn healed.

Lilitu's 4" engagement would mean that not much would be getting too close to dreamer without being in her attack range. Then you have Lelu's push and pounce and Lilitus ability to give them both positive flips.

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When I first started to play dreamer I would often over stretch myself in trying to hire the best models I could. On the 1st turn this is certainly possible as you don't often need your high cards for other things (I usually hire in the twins and a daydream to replace the one I sacrificied). In later turns I often go hiring stitched and insidious madness as you only need moderates (9-10) to hire. Insidious' are great scheme runners and stitches are great for summoning as you can summon a stitched and heal it above the hard to kill and then gamble away and hopefully get reactivate. This on 2 stitched is nasty, but will have varying effects dependent upon your opponent. Don't over extend the dreamer and keep atleast 2 nightmares within 3". Another thing is don't let dreamer stay on high waking. Get Chompy out, hit something, and then back to dreamer and heal and summon some more when your back down to zero waking.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Twg said:

When I first started to play dreamer I would often over stretch myself in trying to hire the best models I could. On the 1st turn this is certainly possible as you don't often need your high cards for other things (I usually hire in the twins and a daydream to replace the one I sacrificied). In later turns I often go hiring stitched and insidious madness as you only need moderates (9-10) to hire. Insidious' are great scheme runners and stitches are great for summoning as you can summon a stitched and heal it above the hard to kill and then gamble away and hopefully get reactivate. This on 2 stitched is nasty, but will have varying effects dependent upon your opponent. Don't over extend the dreamer and keep atleast 2 nightmares within 3". Another thing is don't let dreamer stay on high waking. Get Chompy out, hit something, and then back to dreamer and heal and summon some more when your back down to zero waking.  

Almost exactly how I play him now. I do like the team of Coppelius and Doppleganger though and those two, usually with the Twins I summon in, can usually take care of a board quarter (half when the whole squad is there) on their own.

 

My very first Dreamer game ever I summoned 20 points on the first turn alone (twins + stitched), afterwards something like 31 more points over the next few turns. Tons more stitched, some nightmares, and ole squigglytentacleface/coppelius. I won with a score of something approaching 4-5:2, certainly nothing top-tier.

My most recent game, following a leaner mix of summoning and supporting, saw a return on VP of 10:2 with the game essentially called on turn three in favor of me.

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