Best beatstick with Nicodem

[Anung Un Rama]

Im coming back to my first master having played a good variety of masters over a few months (still havent been playing for six months!) Now that i know the game better i really want to have a good run with Nicodem. First thing i am wondering is what is the best beater for Nicodem? I played a fair bot of Ramos and i liked having Hank. Im thinking I would probably enjoy Killjoy. I ahve -played a bot of Yan Lo and like Izamu too. Rogue Necro looks like fun. Which beater do you use with Nicodem?

[Kadeton]

My usual beater to hire with Nicodem is Izamu - with Nico's  to Ml attacks and Izamu's built-in  to damage, his basic attack needs no further enhancement to really do a number on someone. Izamu's also pretty damn tough for most opponents to deal with, and a little extra healing goes a long way.

If you're running Necrotic King, I've found Datsue-Ba to be a cheap and surprisingly effective beater. Within Nico's Undead Crowning aura of  to Ca and damage (which can stack with itself, omg), you can rely more on her high Severe damage, and she's great for punching through targets with high Armor. Summon her a Shikome friend and the two of them under Nico's influence will rip apart just about anything.

[Anung Un Rama]

I havent got Datsue Ba but i will purchase her this week...sounds like fun

[Kogan Style]

2 hours ago, Kadeton said:

 Within Nico's Undead Crowning aura of  to Ca and damage (which can stack with itself, omg)

This! Its very hard hitting and turns anything into a hardcore beater. I usually use the Necro (which also has an inbuilt  to hit and damage) but I want to experiment with Archie (Book 4 Henchman) who can also create Corpse Counters for Nicodem. Izamu is good because you can bounce through Decay blasts thanks to Izamu's lack of Hard to Wound (and heal Izamu in the process)

 

The Dad Rider is almost too mobile, although Undead Crowning has an 8" range so you can still get all those bonuses if the Rider keeps relatively close. It can then pull the target further into the Deathball bubble which is handy (especially when playing head hunter)

[Clement]

15 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Within Nico's Undead Crowning aura of  to Ca and damage (which can stack with itself, omg)

By this do you mean single  to the attack flip and single  to the damage?  Or have I been reading this wrong for years....

[Kadeton]

3 hours ago, Clement said:

By this do you mean single  to the attack flip and single  to the damage?  Or have I been reading this wrong for years....

So, every time I talk about this upgrade I have to check the cards again, because I still can't quite believe it's real.

The Undead Crowning action doesn't bestow a Condition on Nico, it simply provides a bonus in an aura. Unless otherwise stated, non-Condition effects stack (BRB p.53), and there's nothing in Undead Crowning that prevents stacking or limits it to being cast once per turn. If you cast it three times, for example, friendly Undead within 8" of Nico will get  on all damage flips and  on all Ca duels.

(If your opponents don't believe you, refer to FAQ #135 - Vent Steam produces a similar aura with a stacking effect.)

[Bengt]

Using your Master AP to give multiple  to Ca/damage seems kind of terrible to me. That first  is always going to be the most valuable and lets face it, even with all the  (i.e. four card flips) you wont reliably get severe damage without cheating. So IMO the fact that Undead Crowning stacks is a trap, one application is by far the most efficient use and combined with Corpse Conductor makes Nicodem a very solid buffer.

But to circle back to the topic.  Carrion Emissary is a decent beater (though not being Undead hurts it some when compared to other options for Nicodem) with good utility, but does anyone use Nicodem's conflux? It doesn't seem to add much of anything to Nicodem. Either the generic one to buff any summoned minions that have run away from Nicodem's  or My Little Helper for double shards/defence seems infinitely more useful.

[Kadeton]

10 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Using your Master AP to give multiple  to Ca/damage seems kind of terrible to me. That first  is always going to be the most valuable and lets face it, even with all the  (i.e. four card flips) you wont reliably get severe damage without cheating. So IMO the fact that Undead Crowning stacks is a trap, one application is by far the most efficient use and combined with Corpse Conductor makes Nicodem a very solid buffer.

The best amount, IMO, is whatever you need to affect your priority target with a net  on Ca and/or a straight (cheatable) damage flip on the 1-5 difference. In most cases, that's going to mean a single application is perfect. If the target you want to kill has Stubborn, or is under an effect like The Man In Black (or even cover if it's a  spell), two applications can end up being far more cost-effective. The same goes if you want to be able to cheat damage and the target has Hard to Wound. It's not often worth multiple casts, but it definitely can be.

(You will never see a look of triumph turn to a look of defeat as completely as having a Mei Feng player Railwalk into double Vent Steam, only to have Nicodem cast double Undead Crowning and completely negate the penalty while pumping everybody's damage through the roof.)

[spooky_squirrel]

I've heard some interesting things about the Valedictorian as a beater (from Arcanist point of view, it would be recruited by Sandeep). The  to Cast (0)Lecture Notes gives you a better chance of hitting the trigger for a free melee attack against a model that can no longer declare triggers, and the  to Damage with the free attack (and two subsequent ones, three with flurry) can tear down a model or two in an activation.

22 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

The Dad Rider is almost too mobile, although Undead Crowning has an 8" range so you can still get all those bonuses if the Rider keeps relatively close. It can then pull the target further into the Deathball bubble which is handy (especially when playing head hunter)

Also from an Arcanist point of view, you can use the Dead Rider to run around doing things that need to be done outside of the death ball forming around your master. The difference is where I'm using the Mechanical to score schemes, the Dead Rider can just murder scheme runners outright or use the Reap trigger to pull those same scheme runners into the death ball.

[Kaptain_Konrad]

I use and have been very happy with dead rider. Giving him fast can make his a good scheme runner/killer or just murderlate an enemy model with 4 attacks at min 3. I use vulture though, been enjoying him more lately.

[Wake of Godzilla]

Archie...

But almost any of the big 10 points are good - the  turn good models to great models and the healing really helps Rider/Izamu become a power house.

The Valedictorian is good but I find can operate independently and provides some much-needed mobility to the Nicodem crew. 

[MEGAHORSE]

Izamu is probably the best, but Valedictorian provides more utility and doesnt require as much babysitting. I've yet to field Archie. 

I personally find the Undead Crowning to be a waste of an upgrade and too conditional. If I have a high card, I could instead be flooding the board with more punk zombies/Flesh constructs/Hanged/Necropunks to accomplish my schemes, as opposed to giving + flips to Ca actions. Especially given how poor of Ca actions we have in faction currently IMO. 

[EnternalVoid]

4 hours ago, MEGAHORSE said:

Izamu is probably the best, but Valedictorian provides more utility and doesnt require as much babysitting. I've yet to field Archie. 

I personally find the Undead Crowning to be a waste of an upgrade and too conditional. If I have a high card, I could instead be flooding the board with more punk zombies/Flesh constructs/Hanged/Necropunks to accomplish my schemes, as opposed to giving + flips to Ca actions. Especially given how poor of Ca actions we have in faction currently IMO. 

To be fair you can cast it on a 9 of any suit.  For summoning purposes a 9 normally would get you a 5ss model.  So of the models you listed Necropunk is the only one that falls into that category and unless it is a crow you would be spending a SS on top of it.  Of course if you have a 10 or 11 then you are looking at a flesh construct or Punk Zombie.

I imagine often the big appeal though to Undead Crowning is not the positive to Ca Actions but the positive to damage flips.  Having your models get a positive to damage flips increases the likelihood of getting better that weak damage *even if you have to cheat it*.  I imagine it might not net you much in the way of severe damage but to be honest going from Weak to Moderate damage with several models is pretty good.  Punk zombies go from 2 to 4 damage, basically doubles it.  Rotten belles and canine remains go from 1 to 3 damage, basically tripling it.  I imagine that really is the appeal of Undead Crowning and what Kadeton was getting at in his post above.  A lot of people will let hits that land in the 1-5 difference range go as they are banking on the lower end damage, but with a single positive they have to match results to force a negative unless they have some other benefit.  The thought of a Punk Zombie being able to deal two 4 damage hits to a heavy hitter rather than two 2 damage hits will have a huge impact on your opponent's priorities.

Just today I had a game where positive to damage was crucial to the outcome.  Mind you I was playing Lady Justice for the Guild but the positive to damage she gets if she does not charge basically let me wallop Izamu and Yin during the game.  On one turn Justice walked to Yin, Focused, and swung.  The focus Negated her natural negatives from her ability and the positive to damage means that despite only beating her by 2 I still got a strait result and cheated in a Severe to almost kill her in the single hit.  Next turn I walked into combat with the returned and healed Izamu and again beat his flip by 2 but cheated in the RJ to put him down again.  Positive to damage is a very powerful advantage, and being able to potentially stack it to insure strait damage is not to be underestimated.

[Kadeton]

Yep, that's pretty much exactly what I'm getting at.

(Though I utterly dispute Megahorse's notion that the Ressers have poor Ca actions. Look at the Undead Spirits!)

If you just want to flood the board with models, I don't personally think Nicodem is the best choice. Kirai is superior when it comes to pure summoning - but the models she brings will never be as individually effective as a model supported by Nicodem, and they're not backed by his incredible card-draw abilities. Nicodem dominates the hand-control game, and it's more than feasible for him to simply bash the opposing crew into the ground with a sledgehammer made from pure efficiency. Undead Crowning plays a huge part in that strategy.

[MEGAHORSE]

I will have to give it another shot. In my experience, needing a 9+ and still trying to beat down with models is very situational and requires an optimal setup, so often opt for the attrition gameplan

[Anung Un Rama]

Im thinking the on Belles lures will make them even more broken........not to mention Hanged