14 games, 1 win 10 losses 3 draws.

[ChirpOTK]

4 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

While playing Sonnia, remember that you don´t need to just play the blast spam game. The possibility of placing Fire Markers can be really useful to control where your opponent can move. Many schemes became easyer when your opponent cannot move there. Also, the Malifaux child is very popular with her because he can let you put another fire pillar, creating an almost impasable wall

I did use her fire walls effectively, I blocked line of sight to her well, but I think he used Sensei Wu or something to push misaki way around and get passed them for a charge on francisco who was right next to sonnia.

[JDAntoine]

As I've now given three demos in three days with the game (try to hype up the local player group to Malifaux) I can only say that your objectives greatly differ and that generally speaking I feel the key to playing Guild succesful is to know when to switch around from all out offense to removing oppossing key pieces in order to win the given scheme. However I too am completely new to the game so certainly my opinion is somewhere in between drivel and succesful choices in a group with a ton of new players.

I am still very much interested in the general approach you currently thake to build a crew. In our playing group a good friend of mine decided to start with Shenlong and proceeded to buy a ton of additional 'bad-ass' looking Enforcers and while hobby wise I totally understand that route I do believe that generally (Hoffman not included) this isn't the strongest route for Guild to play into. Especially not when compaired to factions such as Arcanists or Ressurectionists who usually can support such a route much better due to the mix of extremely cheap models and extremely expensive models.

My routes to succes with the Guild thus generally have come from builds who currently do not include combinations like PapaBox, Malifaux Child, Brutal Emissary or Pale Rider on top of the regular Henchmen. Instead I usually pick one and try to continue with reasonable cheap and effective models, such as the Austringer (twice) and single Pathfinder, because I feel 6 still is a golden number in Malifaux despite the relative low ammounts of Wd who protect you against retaliation. Striking first is usually where I feel Guild excells at, so optimizing that generally should allow you to get a good to great grip on the game. Models like Death Marshalls or Witchling Stalkers are generally not extremely succesful in doing that. Or so I have found...

With the glass cannon the Guild often is I have found that in general Guild can be a bit harder to learn because you need to re-evaluate your priorities over and over again. Against that same friend that played Ten Thunders my initial objective was to remove Shenlong, however eventually I won the game without doing that (because it was too difficult to do) instead I did remove all the support pieces Ten Thunders came with which instead granted me the victory because one Master is unlikely to win the game alone. The Guild is very good in dealing with Minions with the right placements. Using Fire Walls not to protect Sonnia but instead hinder my opponents LoS from support piece to Master can be the more effective route to go. 

[ChirpOTK]

Last night I won my first game. I played Perdita against my friend's Lilith list. I won 7 to 6

The main strategy was headhunter, which I scored 3 points from

Exhaust their forces, I got 1 point from

and hunting party which I got 3 from.

My list was Perdita, Francisco, The judge, brutal emissary, an austringer, and a death marshall. The all star definitely went to the austringer. It was the first game I got to play one and he ended up dealing 19 damage total, and delivered orders to secure the game winning point from headhunter. I was also able to take my opponent's barbaros off the table turn 1 with a vengeance bullet from Perdita.

[ringsnake]

I've been having some struggles recently too, until my most recent game in which I used the four models from the starter set, Doc Grimwell, Nurse Heartsbane (with Dispel Magic), and the two orderlies.

I still lost, but I felt like the loss was due to errors in judgement, not because the models were inferior.

Big plus was that in addition to being effective, these models are a lot easier to use. My big mistake was using them with McMourning, and while there's some great THEMATIC synergy there, game play wise there wasn't so much. Though giving injection to Grimwell, and then having him advance, and then drop several points of damage on Killjoy with Lobotomize from 12" away was pretty cool.

Then Heartsbane electroshocked Killjoy and stuffed him in a straghtjacket so he couldn't take combat actions. It was glorious.

[JDAntoine]

Congrats ChirpOTK! I had a feeling the Austringers would not dissapoint, especially your second one will round out your crew. My Austringers are the workhorses of most of the games they see and they see most games because they do not need to see in order to get a game ;). Jokes aside, Austringers are extremely good and one of the tools we often should apply in a competative setting, in fact a lot of pieces in the Guild are somehow 'balanced' around the fact they excist. 

As an additional piece of opinion I will say that I feel a Predita crew can roll on all cylinders with Abuela with Hair Trigger and Enslaved Nephalim. I remember the first time I read their card to not be that impressed, I totally dissagree with that initial impression... The synergy it allows for means the Family can certainly control the board and often if they can be applied in the center of the board they decide the game outcome when Austringers cover their flanks and/or a Pathfinder can be the sacrifical lamb to recieve the blunt of the first charge(s). So I'd reconsider the Judge and Death Marshall choice for your next game :).

ringsnake good review on some easier to use models. For me the rule of tumb for practically all Guild models is to try and evaluate the board as good as possible. Many models can sit out the first initial turns very close to their deployment place if the right ammount of LoS lanes are around for them. In almost all Perdita games when flanked by Francisco you can really act like the ranged boogeyman she is. McMourning, McCabe or Lady J need to be more specific with their routes as they shine in melee but since the Brutal Emissary release I believe Sonnia can effectively replace a single Austringer with another model of your choice as usually 2 models who can ignore LoS are sufficient to put down a massive ammount of ranged pressure. 

[trikk]

On 21.10.2016 at 6:24 PM, ChirpOTK said:

Last night I won my first game. I played Perdita against my friend's Lilith list. I won 7 to 6

The main strategy was headhunter, which I scored 3 points from

Exhaust their forces, I got 1 point from

and hunting party which I got 3 from.

My list was Perdita, Francisco, The judge, brutal emissary, an austringer, and a death marshall. The all star definitely went to the austringer. It was the first game I got to play one and he ended up dealing 19 damage total, and delivered orders to secure the game winning point from headhunter. I was also able to take my opponent's barbaros off the table turn 1 with a vengeance bullet from Perdita.

Exhaust their forces is not a good scheme for Guild to be honest. We`re on the squishy side, don`t have a lot of summons so we actually prefer dead enemies than tagged enemies

P.S. Congrats! You need to change the topic name now

[daniello_s]

2 minutes ago, trikk said:

Exhaust their forces is not a good scheme for Guild to be honest. We`re on the squishy side, don`t have a lot of summons so we actually prefer dead enemies than tagged enemies

How about you tag him after you kill him?

[ChirpOTK]

Well after a small high comes he lowest low. I tried Lucius again last night and it went horribly. My list was really awful, I tried to fit as many minions in the list as I could, I wanted to score off of occupy their turf, convict labor and guard the stash. I had a list with 11 models. My opponent played misaki and killed four of my models turn one, by push push charging her, and shooting with katanaka snipers. So never never take all minion lists, and I probably shouldn't ever take lucius.

[trikk]

1 minute ago, ChirpOTK said:

Well after a small high comes he lowest low. I tried Lucius again last night and it went horribly. My list was really awful, I tried to fit as many minions in the list as I could, I wanted to score off of occupy their turf, convict labor and guard the stash. I had a list with 11 models. My opponent played misaki and killed four of my models turn one, by push push charging her, and shooting with katanaka snipers. So never never take all minion lists, and I probably shouldn't ever take lucius.

Lucius with max minions is a trap as he doesn`t have AOE buffs. Just direct ones.  I think having 4-5 minions is a lot better. The new Witchling Thralls seem like a perfect fit.

[ChirpOTK]

I don't really like to proxy things so it looks like I won't have best tools for lucius until they finally come out.

[trikk]

Sure., the main idea behind my post was that since you can buff 3 minions a turn its not optimal to have 9 of them. Its better to have 3 good ones

[Ryin]

Lucius is hard to win with even for seasoned veterans. I have been using him since 1.5 and I still regularly get my butt kicked with him. (I'm so glad Lucius is a master now, but oh how I miss Lucius/Lucas)

Just because favors using minions, doesn't mean that he ONLY uses minions. I think almost ANY crew would lose if it was just a master and all minions. I have yet to try and of the tasty wave 4 Lucius stuff, but I have done well using a guild sergeant and Master Queeg as scheme runners. Queeg can take promises and help direct traffic and is just a good support piece over all.

Lucius himself can do scheme running. He's also good at moving pieces to where they need to be regardless of their station. It also helps with Guild Lucius to bring in some mimic help. Dopplegangers, etc. And using things like lawyers and witchling stalkers to help out with the horror duels if you don't have wave 4 proxies.

[admiralvorkraft]

I usually run Lucius with exclusively minions, maybe Sue or Abuela. Hunters, Wardens, Pathfinders, Death Marshal, Witchling Stalkers... None of them really need "buffing" and Lucius' (slim) comparative advantage is his ability to influence wide swaths of the board, he might be the only support master who prefers to spread his crew around (just another reason the Guardsmen sub-faction doesn't work so well).

Having all, or mostly, Minions gives you options and adaptability. Yes, they die, but I've found that it's the only build where it makes sense to run Lucius instead of another option.

[DrEvilmonki]

Lucius looks to be a pretty hard master to use effectively and you are still just getting your feet under you. Stick with one master for the moment until you feel like you know them inside out, then branch out.

[ChirpOTK]

My Neverborn friend tried to play my Lucius against me last night with something close to:

Lucius, Lawyer, Beckoner, Illuminated, Illuminated, Terror Tot, Terror Tot, Stitched together, Stitched together.

I played Perdita and I absolutely demolished him. It wasn't even close unfortunately for him. He started to see how poor lucius is with his minimally effective abilities that are far too difficult to actually cast. I killed everything he had and only lost one death marshall, and actually scored a maximum number of points in a 5 turn game 11.

 

If anyone is curious my list was....

Perdita (Aura, Vengeance Bullet, Trick shooting), Francisco(Wade in), Dr. Grimwell (Debt to the Guild), Papa Loco(Debt to the guild), Death Marshall, Hunter, Austringer 2ss

 

I haven't been keeping the game tally list up to date, but since I painted Francisco and an Austringer my win rate has gone way up, which I'm not actually overly happy with.

[Ozymandias79]

Why are you not "actually overly happy" with winning more once you started using Francisco and an Austringer?  They are good models, some of the best that Guild has?  It kind of feels like you were complaining about losing a lot, so people said to take those models to help you out, and now you're unhappy you're winning?

Once you get more experienced, you can drop Francisco and the Austringer and move on to other stuff, but in the meantime, use the tools you have.  I used to run Fran in just about every list, but now that I'm more experienced, I can leave him in the box and use other models, often to greater effect.  But it takes a lot of practice to get good at Malifaux, and using good models until you are better is nothing to be ashamed of.

[JDAntoine]

Perhaps because of the more casual nature some play the game with. Sometimes opponents there bring their A-game sometimes not and crushing defeats usually do not leave a great experience for either of the players, winner or loser. However I do agree with you that by going competative, usually the outcome is that the games are slightly less forgiving thus crushing defeats tend to happen more.

In general, play how you like. If double Austringers is something you deem un-fun, try to thake a step back, use one, use different tools to win. The Guild has a lot of routes to victory, Austringers are very popular and good to get to know the Guild with but I will also say some Masters go a totally different direction. Switching it up (at this point) might be a good option again because even a handful of games allows you to learn a lot. 

[Hidelfon]

Is really a surprise that you beat badly someone using for first time (?)  in of your crews?  Specially him using Lucius (perhaps the weakest master in the game)  and you Perdita?  Hahaha

  It's not surprising either that when you make better lists,  introduce better models and play more  ganes your win rate improves. 

Your list even wasn't that competitive or optimised

 

  It's their turn to step up.  Just make sure that your are placing the correct amount/kind  of terrain and you place it properly. 

  If they want to play fuffy or more relaxed,  play a different master as Perdita is a noob  hammer:

- she is difficult  to assesinate (specially with Franvisco),  because of high Df/Wp and having long range. 

- You don't pay hard for errors,  because the point above. 

-she makes the opponent pay for errors

- most of the times new players don't set up a table properly 

All the above make her an easy start in to the game. 

 

Looking at the list you posted,  maybe you have hoffman,  the starter and lady justice.  Perhaps use lady justice against your less experienced friends (or Hoffman if you have the models) 

Pd: I am assuming you are both new,  but I have no idea. So no offence intended  ☺

[4thstringer]

20 hours ago, ChirpOTK said:

I killed everything he had and only lost one death marshall, and actually scored a maximum number of points in a 5 turn game 11.

Just a rules note,  you can only score 4 points for the strat and 3 for each scheme for a total of ten.   

[Hidelfon]

27 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Just a rules note,  you can only score 4 points for the strat and 3 for each scheme for a total of ten.   

I thought the same when I read it,  but probably he is doing the fortnight campaign ones

[ChirpOTK]

On 10/29/2016 at 7:45 AM, 4thstringer said:

Just a rules note,  you can only score 4 points for the strat and 3 for each scheme for a total of ten.   

Oh I knew the shcemes were all limited to 3, but I didn't know the main strat was limited.

[ChirpOTK]

On 10/28/2016 at 5:27 PM, Ozymandias79 said:

Why are you not "actually overly happy" with winning more once you started using Francisco and an Austringer?  They are good models, some of the best that Guild has?  It kind of feels like you were complaining about losing a lot, so people said to take those models to help you out, and now you're unhappy you're winning?

Once you get more experienced, you can drop Francisco and the Austringer and move on to other stuff, but in the meantime, use the tools you have.  I used to run Fran in just about every list, but now that I'm more experienced, I can leave him in the box and use other models, often to greater effect.  But it takes a lot of practice to get good at Malifaux, and using good models until you are better is nothing to be ashamed of.

No I guess that's true, what I mean is I wasn't very happy that we have such obvious, "best models" Once I get more experienced I can stop taking them, but why do that when they seem just...stronger than other choices in almost every situation? I personally seem forced to take them if I want to win.

On 10/29/2016 at 4:36 AM, Hidelfon said:

Is really a surprise that you beat badly someone using for first time (?)  in of your crews?  Specially him using Lucius (perhaps the weakest master in the game)  and you Perdita?  Hahaha

  It's not surprising either that when you make better lists,  introduce better models and play more  ganes your win rate improves. 

Your list even wasn't that competitive or optimised

 

  It's their turn to step up.  Just make sure that your are placing the correct amount/kind  of terrain and you place it properly. 

  If they want to play fuffy or more relaxed,  play a different master as Perdita is a noob  hammer:

- she is difficult  to assesinate (specially with Franvisco),  because of high Df/Wp and having long range. 

- You don't pay hard for errors,  because the point above. 

-she makes the opponent pay for errors

- most of the times new players don't set up a table properly 

All the above make her an easy start in to the game. 

 

Looking at the list you posted,  maybe you have hoffman,  the starter and lady justice.  Perhaps use lady justice against your less experienced friends (or Hoffman if you have the models) 

Pd: I am assuming you are both new,  but I have no idea. So no offence intended  ☺

My friend actually has an almost 100% win rate against me, he usually plays lilith grow, or dreamer summon/grow and I just can't beat it. The one time he tried my lucius he was just humoring me.

[Fetid Strumpet]

As to your first point, in my experience, there isn't a war game that doesn't suffer from that. Guild ball, infinity, warhammer, disc wars, clan wars, D&D miniatures, all of them have models that break the baseline for whatever the defined "SPP" strength per point is supposedly created at and that becomes the default new baseline. Malifaux, at least in my experience, in second edition certainly possesses such things, but ultimately the skill of the player has a lot more to do with the outcome of the game than the specific models in most occasions, which hasn't been my experience with Malifaux 1st edition, or many of the other war games I've played, though I'm sure others exist. Once you achieve enough familiarity you can understand he nuances enough to not necessarily need the "auto pick" models.

For example Rotten Belles are commonly thought of as an Autopick for Ressers but for the last two years or so I rarely bring them in any of my resser lists outside Seamus, whom at least to me, seems to actually need them, or something very similar to them, to actually function. I play Molly a good deal as well, and she has direct synergy with Rotten Belles and I still don't really bring them with her all that often. 

I would argue that you don't actually NEED Austringers or Francisco to function in guild, though they are very effective, and can be especially effective if you haven't master d a lot of the nuances of he game.

And to be clear that is not learn to play to be better argument. The simple fact of the matter, in my experience, is just that, at least until book 4, and I have no real understanding of how that particular little bundle of options will change this equation, skill and mastery was > just about everything else in Malifaux. Many very good players I know could still beat newer opponents even if a trash list was built for them and an optomised list was built for heir opponent. Not all the time, but a good percentage. I'd say hang in there.