ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I am a new player and I've actually got quite the big guild collection already. I've painted 3 masters, Sonnia, Lucius (Who was my first master, because I loved his theme and idea so much, but it turns out he's apparently the worst master in the game which really upsets me.) and Lady J. I've got Perdita, nearly finished but I'm getting very.... disheartened because of my wicked losing streak. I'm play mostly in my small group of friends who play Lilith, The Dreamer, Yan Lo, and a TT monk master that I can't recall the name of. I've tried to read up on threads from players with similar issues, but I can't seem to make much progress. My friends all started at the same time as me so we're all new, maybe played for about 2 months, but every time we play I just feel like their armies can do so much more than mine. I've got flying nephilim just charging me from days away, the dreamer draws 4 cards extra with a soulstone and that lets him put an extra 20 something points of models on the table on turn one. My TT friend is the one who I draw with, and our games are much closer, but I still can't seem to get a win lol. I'm not quite sure what the goal of this post is, I know there are a bunch of similar ones that exist already that I've read through, maybe I just need some people to talk to to help me not get so disheartened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 These are not easy masters your opponents bring. Do you have more information on your games? Maybe a battle report you van make available? Or the lists used during your last loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLOAKS Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 It happens! I'm currently 1-5-1 so dont feel so bad! Same stats as you haha. Please post a couple of your crew lists and I'm sure you will get a few good tips from others on the forums! Also a discussion after each game and asking your friends to remember key things you did 'wrong' will help correct holes in your play. I find that really helps me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 That's similar to my track record among our group of newbies (Hoffman against Lilith, Seamus, a sprinkling of Guild/Arcanist/10 Thunders experienced players). First ten games had, I think, a single tie to break the streak of losses. It took until game 20 before I just plain outplayed my opponent, although there was a smattering of ties before that. If Barbaros is being annoying, you can take Guild's general upgrade Dampening Field and turn it off, no flip, aura simply disappears. That's in the General Upgrade Deck [1 not 2] if you don't have it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 The last game I recall was something like him playing lilith, two youngs, 3 terror tots, a black blood shaman, and nekima. I played a Sonnia list that was around..... Sonnia, the judge, master queeg, a death marshall 2 witchling stalkers and a watcher. Basically what happens when I play Sonnia is I try to cast flameburst a lot, but I always end up just dealing 2 damage to stuff, never really get the blasts, then they just get to me with their incredibly fast, terrain ignoring nephilim and Sonnia dies FAST. We play with a lot of terrain, walkways and walls and stuff, but he just flies up onto a walkway, then flies down off of it if he needs to charge something. My army seems so slow that I can't really get the alpha, or keep away from him for long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Also, if you are all new you should make sure that all of the players are playing THEIR stuff correctly. Not too long ago we had a thread on a new dreamer player hiding and summoning in a way that is not allowed. Remember they must pay the vertical cost of flying up to the walkway (but not down). If they are within their HT of the edge of the walkway you can still see them and unless there is a railing or something similar they don't get cover. Stuff like that. Otherwise I here the guild solution to everything is austringers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said: Also, if you are all new you should make sure that all of the players are playing THEIR stuff correctly. Not to long ago we had a thread on the dreamer hiding and summoning in a way that is not allowed. Remember they must pay the vertical cost of flying up to the walkway (but not down). If they are within their height of the edge of the walkway you can still see them and unless there is a railing or something similar they don't get cover. Stuff like that. Yeah, I think that thread was me in the past too haha. I've tried to ask lots of questions here, and everyone is always super helpful. My track record hasn't gotten any better though. We do make sure he pays to fly up, but not down. I think one of the most disappointing things lately is that every time I activate Sonnia, I literally stand still, cast flameburst 3 times with quick study ca, and do like 4 damage to one model and that's it lol. I guess I just flip very poorly, or don't use my resources well enough (Usually I only cheat when trying to keep my models alive) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Ummm... you said you had Perdita, so Papa Loco to give Sonia in order to hit those moderate/severe damages and/or allow cheating so you get it anyway and then death marshal to stuff him in a box? Seems like a common strat, although actual Guild players will be able to comment better. Fransico to make her survivable, cause like austringers I hear he solves everything. Edit (even though Adran beat me to it): Don't be afraid to focus with her, one good hit is better than two bad hits with her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Learn to use focus. Sonnia will then get positives to hit and damage, which normally means you can cheat the damage flip, and then place the blasts so the first model takes 5, and possibly a couple more take 4 each. Much better than hitting the 1 model twice for 2 damage. Your hand is a powerful resource, and if you don't use it, you are going to lose. Save the cards for your important flips. (So if you want Sonnia to do huge damage, save a high card to hit and a severe card for damage). Also try not to change your crew too much as you start. Until you have really learnt the game, you aren;'t goign to be able to just throw in new models and use them well. Knowing your crew is better than having "the best possible" crew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 This is my current guild collection, plus Francisco and Ryle who I just finished, and I'll likely finish Perdita tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 From what I've seen, the difference in skill levels is vast (as you move from NEW -> experienced -> GOOD) because of all the different things that one must take into consideration when trying to play this game competitively. Of my first 18 games, I tied once and won once... but the win was a technicality since I won by 1 point and he "scored" 2 points for Public Demonstration before realizing he only had two minions. I'm past 25 games now and am still not tired of getting perpetually REKT because I love this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrEvilmonki Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Just using your hand for survival isn't optimal. Listen to Schemes and stones podcast 32 which is just around deck and hand use (I assume people have told you to listen to their master breakdowns as well). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 11 minutes ago, DrEvilmonki said: Just using your hand for survival isn't optimal. Listen to Schemes and stones podcast 32 which is just around deck and hand use (I assume people have told you to listen to their master breakdowns as well). This is the first I've heard of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryin Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Guild is a faction that does very well as a front running hammer. When they get rolling, they avalanche and become fairly unstoppable. skill aside, I think set up crew/scheme selection and pre game decisions can be even more important in Guild than in other factions. If you can get the edge early, or the illusion of an edge, you have the advantage. Guild functions as a synergistic unit more than most factions. Even their stand alone units tend to function more optimally when a cog in the machine. My last game, my opponent had the better position, superior firepower and I was forced to split my forces. I thought he had me beat, but my Perdita got his Sue down to 1 wound before his activation. (Sue was an objective piece, killing him on T1 would have given me VP) He pushed Sue back, turtled him and left him in the backfield and shifted his whole force to one side cause he was afraid of Perdita and turned my split forces into a flanking force. I picked his crew apart 1 by 1 and blanked him. There is a BIG psychological game in Malifaux too. It can win or lose the match before it begins. If you're afraid of certain models or crews, you've already lost. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ryin said: Guild is a faction that does very well as a front running hammer. When they get rolling, they avalanche and become fairly unstoppable. skill aside, I think set up crew/scheme selection and pre game decisions can be even more important in Guild than in other factions. If you can get the edge early, or the illusion of an edge, you have the advantage. Guild functions as a synergistic unit more than most factions. Even their stand alone units tend to function more optimally when a cog in the machine. My last game, my opponent had the better position, superior firepower and I was forced to split my forces. I thought he had me beat, but my Perdita got his Sue down to 1 wound before his activation. (Sue was an objective piece, killing him on T1 would have given me VP) He pushed Sue back, turtled him and left him in the backfield and shifted his whole force to one side cause he was afraid of Perdita and turned my split forces into a flanking force. I picked his crew apart 1 by 1 and blanked him. There is a BIG psychological game in Malifaux too. It can win or lose the match before it begins. If you're afraid of certain models or crews, you've already lost. I'm bad about this. I get inside my own head and just get flustered very early on in the game because stuff goes sideways so fast it seems, and I don't know how to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryin Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I'd say it's probably the biggest issue most (new) players have. Treating losing a model/bad flip/poor decision as the beginning of the end, rather than brushing it off. I've won games where I have been tabled and not killed any models on my opponent's crew. Malifaux isn't a game of kill or be killed, and while the Guild can CERTAINLY kill, it's very good at the rest too. You've just got to think there's still a chance, no matter what happens. And then, after the game, if you've lost, try and learn something from the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I'm not certain how helpful this advice will be, but I'd also suggest, if you have the time, ALWAYS play every game to the end, and ALWAYS play like the game will continue another turn. On the first point, I suggest this for two reasons. The first is the more actual experience you have the better. The other parts of this are part of the mental game. If you reach a point where even mentally, you stop fighting for the win, you are pretty much ceding the game at that point. Sometimes for time reasons, or desire to fit another game or round of drinks into the night, that's cool. But if you are learning the game, you stop actively seeking ways to turn the game around, you never really get better at it, and it can be very easy to get a big set back and assume the game is over. As an anecdote, in the first edition of the game I was playing my Avatar Seamus crew against a Rasputina crew, and I'd been having a really bad day all day, and the early part of the game was just as bad. I lost my entire crew save for Seamus, and the then Henchman, Molly, who veterans can tell you was pretty bad in the first edition. This happened turn 2. My opponent gave me if I wanted to call it, and in a very grumpy and snarky mood I told him I would happily accept his surrender if that's what he was offering. So we played it out. Happily Seamus manifested turn 3, caught Rasputina in his aura of Terror/hit you for running away/ you go no where aura, and proceeded to tear the rest of his crew to pieces. I ended up winning that game, a game that looked at the middle of turn two like I had no hope of ever coming back. It doesn't always turn out that way, but never giving up, even if you are certain you've lost really teaches you how to play the game. Second always assume there will be another turn. I can't tell you how many games I've played where a player assumes they have it in the bag, and doesn't position their models appropriately, that then are caught flat footed when another turn actually does come around, and that they could have shifted the game in their favor if they had only assumed there would be another turn, and moved their models appropriately. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrEvilmonki Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I know it is hard not to get disillusioned but it can take a long time to get that ah-ha moment with a Master. I started with Ironsides and while I occasionally won, it wasn't often. Then at about the 30 games mark I really understood what she was doing and what her crew could do around her. Things you should consider. Listen to the schemes & stones podcasts on the basics of the game - Ep 41 Card control - Ep 32 Lady Justice - Ep 40 Sonnia Crid - Ep 12 Lucius - Ep 7 Personally I would stick to just one master until you know them inside out. Understanding the relenting rule is important as is understanding what models have synergy with what other models in your crew. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Absolutely agree with what has been said, get a good grip on a Master you like the most first before you continue into other options. I'm also really new to the game and currently focus the most around Perdita and Sonnia, by large because of their straight forward design. However they do both have a weaker Scheme game as some of the newer masters out there. The Minion backbone to most of my forces still is double Austringer and a single Pathfinder. For no matter how I switch my Henchmen and Enforcers around I feel they provide you with very flexible models that always will serve a purpose. For my Perdita build they are additional ranged support and a way to make charges difficult due to Clockwork Traps being moved around. For my Sonnia crew they largely fit the same role but the Pathfinder and Austringers usually focus a bit more on scenario in those instances. You have a ton to work with and I love what you've build so far. I think Schemes and Stones, PullMyFinger and some forum debate helps you a lot. I also think a Guild introduction guide would eventually be very welcome. Being a total new Malifaux player myself I'm even thinking of typing down some of my thought process. General as they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 11 hours ago, ChirpOTK said: I played a Sonnia list that was around..... Sonnia, the judge, master queeg, a death marshall 2 witchling stalkers and a watcher. Just in case you have seen it yet, the following standard Sonnia list is pretty good for several strats and schemes: Sonnia (Cherufe, Counterspell, expert sleuth), Francisco (Wade in, Hermanos), Papa Loco, Death Marshall, Brutal Effigy, Watcher, Malifaux child, 2 x Austringers. The aforementioned Schemes and Stones podcast on Sonnia will help you to play it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Certainly a powerful Sonnia list with a ton of flexability. Alternatively if you like to dive into Perdita instead this brew has been working quite well for myself: Perdita (Trick Shooting); Francisco (Wade In); Abuela (Hair Trigger); Papa Loco; Enslaved Nephilim; Guild Pathfinder; 2x Austringers (don't own too many models yet). When schemes matter the most Papa Loco becomes Nino. In general 2x Austringers should help out most of your crews. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidelfon Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Try Aura Ancestral! It's amazing for 1ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Wooo, finished up Dita and Loco last night, and got a lot of progress made on an Austringer (I ordered a box of 2 from Wyrd, but they only shipped me one spru, so I'm waiting for the replacement) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hope you'll recieve your second Austringer soon, luck does not seem to be totally on your side ;)! In general I think that one of the smaller downsides to the Guild is that they have a specific set of models from Wave 1 who really seem to have a massive influence on the overal Guild balance, often meaning that some releases feel lacking. Now I certainly can't say there is a Wave where Guild did not profit from but many models do seem somewhat rebalanced around the two Austringers and Francisco who have been my 'Guild training-wheels' wheels who likely will not come off for competative play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChirpOTK Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I played another game last night, it ended in a draw so still no win in my book, but I feel like I did much better. I played Sonnia with papa, francisco, a death marshall, 2 stalkers, a hunter and a watcher. Sonnia was able todo so much more work with papa's and francisco's buff, and focusing with her. I was able to remove a TT samurai from the board turn 2, and deal 6 damage to his master misaki. He would have done better if he had known that he couldn't spend soul stones near sonnia because he did get to charge her with Misaki on turn 2 after the samurai died, but that upgrade saved me. I chose convict labor, and plant the explosives. Our strategy was headhunter. I got 3 points off of convict labor with the watcher just plopping markers on the center line, 2 points off plant the explosives, and only 1 off headhunter because I planned my turns poorly. I feel like this thread has helped and I played a better game, I just need to maybe pick better schemes, or focus more on strategies. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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