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After errata Levi


Jafar

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3 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

 If everyting you might want to target is in soft cover, I think you're doing terrain wrong.

Having said that - just lure the target out with a Belle, then blast it with Levi. Or make an abomination with Alyce somehwere near where you need to be, walk it there, then kill it and put Levi there. If you really need to, stone for a +flip and your damage is at least 7.

You're basically arguing Levi is rubbish because he can't take something off regardless of position every turn without your opponent being able to do anything. No other master could do it as well as Levi can, and if nothing else Levi is still unkillable more or less and gets an absurd hiring pool.

I still see no evidence whatsoever that he is any more than 10-15% worse than he used to be, and that is purely based on the reduction in damage output.

 

I don't recall myself calling him rubbish anytime, anywhere but what I'm arguing is that many people thinks he is still ultimate killing machine when he was before errata (Channel was way too good and had to be re-written). Have you ever had a chance playing him or against him after errata if I may ask? Saying 'get Belles' is a bit funny as it means unless I don't take them he is not doing his job fully as every master should.

And to be honest it is not about his damage reduction but about reliability in hitting models with his 2/3/4 damage spread which you must admit is not too impressive but thanks to damage reduction negating ability was steady at least. 

Anyway let us focus now on finding new tricks for Levi as Jafar suggested, especially since Mad Dog can't be helpful in this task(thanks gain Tris! :)).

 

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30 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Well spotted and thank you for ruining my day ;)

It wasn`t on purpose, I had some games with Parker recently and thought, man, Mad Dog could be great for Levi, than I saw that...

Still great for the rest of his outcast crew, if you want it though :)

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15 minutes ago, Tris said:

It wasn`t on purpose, I had some games with Parker recently and thought, man, Mad Dog could be great for Levi, than I saw that...

Still great for the rest of his outcast crew, if you want it though :)

Oh, Jack loves that guy. Torment him and he is nice, mobile shooting platform which works well with Dead Outlaws.

As for Levi's tricks - Yin is quote interesting option with her Gnawing Fear. And it is solid Waif anchor also.

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6 hours ago, daniello_s said:

I don't recall myself calling him rubbish anytime, anywhere but what I'm arguing is that many people thinks he is still ultimate killing machine when he was before errata (Channel was way too good and had to be re-written). Have you ever had a chance playing him or against him after errata if I may ask? Saying 'get Belles' is a bit funny as it means unless I don't take them he is not doing his job fully as every master should.

And to be honest it is not about his damage reduction but about reliability in hitting models with his 2/3/4 damage spread which you must admit is not too impressive but thanks to damage reduction negating ability was steady at least. 

Anyway let us focus now on finding new tricks for Levi as Jafar suggested, especially since Mad Dog can't be helpful in this task(thanks gain Tris! :)).

 

No, you definitel didn't call him rubbish :) But others said he's basically useless now as he can't deal damage any more, which just isn't true in my opinion.

Getting Belles is just the first idea that came to mind getting people out of cover. Lust works too, for example or using any number of push effects. I don't think there's anything wrong with having to rely on your crew a little to boost your master or if you don't do that, dropping high cards and/or focusing. Rasputina for example would be rubbish without ice mirrors, Sonnia would have a much harder time if her crew didn't set fire to things and Lady J still hates exercising and would prefer to be carried up the board by something else :P

I have played against the new Levi and to be honest he still does the same thing. Outcasts have some fantastic beatsticks, and Levi just bounced around killing off two or three things that hat armour or hard to kill (My Coryphee REALLY hate him). What it means, really is that the rest of your crew has to spend much less time cheating in/hoping for severe damage flips because thanks to Levis killing power, leaving stuff on a couple of wounds isn't really an issue.

And many things with high armour can't really survive hits with 2 times 3 damage - Levi might even have an AP or two left to drop a scheme marker in the perfect spot thanks to his amazing mobility. And he sure does a good job hunting down other scheme runners.

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If there isn't enough soft cover on the board for everything you want to target to be in it, the terrain probably hasn't been set up fairly.

Doing a reliable 8 damage isn't some special thing only Levi ever had access to, many masters do that much or more just as reliably if not more so, in some cases dealing more and in most cases also being able to do support through auras and zero actions or control through triggers.

Please stop telling this joke about Levi's amazing mobility. Mei Feng has amazing mobility, Zipp has amazing mobility, Seamus has amazing mobility, Levi has the okay ability to stand next to an existing model.

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I can also play this game.

Please stop telling this joke about Seamus' amazing mobility. Levi has amazing mobility, Mei Feng has amazing mobility. Seamus has the ok ability to require a 7+ to move 10" to be within 1" of blocking terrain, which cuts off his vectors for escape when someone engages him to shut down his ability to deal dmg. He also has to be completely out of LoS of the entire enemy crew to take this action.

Please stop telling this joke about Mei Feng's amazing mobility. Levi has amazing mobility, Seamus has amazing mobility. Mei feng has the ok ability to stand next to an existing model.

 

I feel you are suffering from grass is greener syndrome personally. All hyper movement has limitations built into it. It doesn't change the fact that being able to change your vectors of attack and control is a great advantage. 

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1 hour ago, Nukemouse said:

If there isn't enough soft cover on the board for everything you want to target to be in it, the terrain probably hasn't been set up fairly.

No, that severely punishes any sort of ranged damage if everything you want to target is in cover. There should be enough cover if you want to play cautiously, but staying in cover should come at the cost of spending AP moving about. Otherwise cover placement effects are totally meaningless. Furthermore, as ranged attacks tend to have lower damage spread than Melee as they require less positioning and finesse to use, giving everything the opportunity to be in cover is needlessly boosting melee attacks.

What's the point of cover if everything can be in it at all times? might as well just give negative flips to all ranged attacks by default. I don't think you understand the design of the game very well. I don't claim to understand it perfectly either, but covering the board in soft cover appears to be a poorly implemented attempt at cuddling Perdita and co.

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Doing a reliable 8 damage isn't some special thing only Levi ever had access to, many masters do that much or more just as reliably if not more so, in some cases dealing more and in most cases also being able to do support through auras and zero actions or control through triggers.

Which master can deal more damage at range while ignoring armour, hard to kill and hard to wound?

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Please stop telling this joke about Levi's amazing mobility. Mei Feng has amazing mobility, Zipp has amazing mobility, Seamus has amazing mobility, Levi has the okay ability to stand next to an existing model.

You must not be playing against very good players then. Whenever people play against me with Levi, they find at least one spot on the board where he can do huge damage. Seamus' mobility is only amazing if no one can see him, and he can only do his movement once, doesn't ignore armour and when Burt Jebsen gets hold of him he's dead.

Mei Feng has literally the exact same type of mobility as Levi - she needs a scrap marker instead of a hollow waif, or she needs a construct to walk where she wants to go.

You seem to be determined to believe Levi is crap, but that simply isn't supported by the facts. No other master delivers the resilience of Levi combined with his ability to finish of hard to remove targets. And keeping him from doing in a model a turn requires a huge amount of AP from your opponent's crew to kill him off before he can do anything.

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I am not suggesting Leveticus is terrible, i am asking that you stop misrepresenting his offensive capabilities and mobility. His survivability is heavily tied into his crew, he is no more difficult to slay than Perdita with Francisco or dreamer with... well anything nearby him. He is hard to kill, but not so much that it should be considered impossible to balance around.

Other masters cannot ignore all of these defenses at once, but they make up for it by doing more damage before those abilities come into play and by having other abilities than just pure damage. Perdita, Sonnia, Somer, Ophelia, Lynch and Reva would be the prime candidates i would point out among ranged masters.

Seamus can use his ability multiple times per game and most often does unless playing a Bag of Tools build, which makes him certainly very different to Levi in goals and playstyle. Mei Feng doesn't need to do her movement at the start of a turn and can set it up how she pleases and thanks to scrap markers (which there are many tools to generate in her available factions) will always end up with significantly more choices than Levi in where to travel to. Comparing a scrap marker to a hollow waif is a joke. It's not unreasonable to complain the grass is greener after someone pours gasoline on your lawn and burns it. Levi is hardly the only master in need of help, but he has the special honor of having been intentionally brought down to this level.

Ranged attacks are at a significant advantage to melee models and if there is any cover on the board people will use it. Its not that the entire board needs to be covered in it, its that all models that matter will be placed either in engagements or cover by a savvy player unless the model has some reason to not fear ranged attacks. Its not that using cover is an attempt to cuddle perdita (she can ignore it anyway) it is that perdita and those like her are balanced around the assumption the board will have plenty of cover to use. Ranged attacks do not have significantly lower damage in general, i don't know where you got that impression, they are on average very close to melee, they just lack the huge spreads some of the 10+cost melees can give.

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50 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

I am not suggesting Leveticus is terrible, i am asking that you stop misrepresenting his offensive capabilities and mobility. His survivability is heavily tied into his crew, he is no more difficult to slay than Perdita with Francisco or dreamer with... well anything nearby him. He is hard to kill, but not so much that it should be considered impossible to balance around.

Where have I misrepresented his damage output? I believe I have given an exact breakdown of how much damage he deals and shown that it is at most 15% worse than it was. Levi is significantly more difficult to kill on account of his ability to just unbury somewhere else. He takes slightly less resources to take off the board, and significantly more to remove permanently as he'll have 3 waifs hanging about letting him reemerge. Dreamer can be killed very quickly with anything that prevents defensive triggers or by blasting onto him from the models he needs to have near him to avoid damage in the first place. Perdita with Fancisco is hard to kill, but Francisco is squishy and he needs to hang out near Perdita to give her the buff. It doesn't matter where Levi is, so long as you've kept a waif hidden somewhere behind all that terrain you use, Levi can come back out unscathed.

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Other masters cannot ignore all of these defenses at once, but they make up for it by doing more damage before those abilities come into play and by having other abilities than just pure damage. Perdita, Sonnia, Somer, Ophelia, Lynch and Reva would be the prime candidates i would point out among ranged masters.

So basically other master are at about the same level as Levi, yes? Levi mostly does damage, and more reliably against targets that all the above masters would struggle with. He also has a few small other things he does besides damage (let's not forget his ability to do as much damage as a Hanged if he wants to) like his absurd hiring pool, the ability to do a bit of damage on the side and high mobility to run schemes in a pinch.

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Seamus can use his ability multiple times per game and most often does unless playing a Bag of Tools build, which makes him certainly very different to Levi in goals and playstyle. Mei Feng doesn't need to do her movement at the start of a turn and can set it up how she pleases and thanks to scrap markers (which there are many tools to generate in her available factions) will always end up with significantly more choices than Levi in where to travel to. Comparing a scrap marker to a hollow waif is a joke. It's not unreasonable to complain the grass is greener after someone pours gasoline on your lawn and burns it. Levi is hardly the only master in need of help, but he has the special honor of having been intentionally brought down to this level.

Seamus can use his attack once per turn. Levi has no such restriction. You're just pointing at other masters and say that because they're different, they're better. Maybe from your perspective, in your meta that is true. But certainly it isn't universally true (given that my experience has been very different from yours). Nobody has burnt your lawn - maybe they lightly singed it because up until then it was so much greener than everyone else's. When a master is constantly being played to the point that declaring his faction becomes almost synonymous with the master, he clearly is too good. He got worse. That's a fact. He isn't unplayable, that's also a fact.

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Ranged attacks are at a significant advantage to melee models and if there is any cover on the board people will use it. Its not that the entire board needs to be covered in it, its that all models that matter will be placed either in engagements or cover by a savvy player unless the model has some reason to not fear ranged attacks. Its not that using cover is an attempt to cuddle perdita (she can ignore it anyway) it is that perdita and those like her are balanced around the assumption the board will have plenty of cover to use. Ranged attacks do not have significantly lower damage in general, i don't know where you got that impression, they are on average very close to melee, they just lack the huge spreads some of the 10+cost melees can give.

The players in your area must be extremely savvy to always have cover or engagements available. Where I play, quite often I have to pick between keeping a model safe and going somewhere I really need to go. I did not at any point claim that the damage is "significantly" lower. But it is lower - ranged models tend to have one or two points damage less than close range models. Of course there are exceptions to this like with anything.

You're basically determined to burn Levi because he's crap, so there isn't much point arguing this any more. I'm going to leave it here as we aren't really getting anywhere.

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3 hours ago, Kadeton said:

The OP's stated purpose for this thread was to help newer players discover effective ways to use post-errata Levi.

Good post about Levi.

I will add some easy to get constructs / undead models and how/when use them:

Undead:

Rotten Belle: Outcast have many nice ranged damage dealers (Lazarus, Rusty, Trapper etc.) You can use Belles to lure enemy in open and kill him (Levi also is ranged). Also in some stats / schemes you can lure enemy models from stash markers, corners, tables quarters etc.

Dead Doxy: So needed push in outcast. Now you don't need to waste some models AP for walk, you can push them. It a little tricky because you also need to push Doxy

Madam Sybelle: Natural combo with Belle and Doxy, can drag them around field, also some nice tricks, good Hench for that price.

Crooligan/ Necropunk: Two good scheme runners. Both work different. Before Winged Plague that was probably best option for scheme runners in outcasts ..... Necropunk is also construct

Yin: Nice support / Tank piece. Maybe dmg is not great, but can setup awesome situation (let's give enemy summoner :-fate to CA and WP duels, or give it to enemy model, so Levi, Belles or Bishop targeting WP can lure him / kill him).

Izamu / Rogue Necromancy: Big bad 10 ss killers, both different but deadly. Izamu is hard to kill if you won't ignore armor, Rogue has :+fate to attack and dmg flip when has at least half wounds) Rogue is also construct.

Construct:

Mech Rider: Summoning + Scheme markers + tanky. You don't need to know more

Joss / Howard: Two tanky killers with nice tricks (Joss ignores many things, Howard has nimble, Flurry and sweet trigger on :ram)

Toolkit: 3 ss model who will make Howard a real pain in enemy ass (or help other models as well, let's say Lazaraus with :+fate to dmg flip).

Soulstone miner: Nice scheme runner or snipers killer. Also can lead to some nice combos with outcast (easy heal from Librarian, Emissary upgrade so many free ss).

Hunter: Good killer / supporter for 7ss. Can push enemy models to you.

Watcher: Scheme runner, can make nice combo with ranged models, this little fella removes cover, so no more :-fate for :ranged attacks.

Teddy: Another deadly killer. Low DF but regenerate and Impossible to wound are to counter that.

Terracota warrior: Can switch upgrades on Levi (pariah for oathkeeper etc.), can take damage instead other model, and reduce it (after FAQ not works with Rusty Reactivate)


I know that there are many other models, but those listed here are more or less easy to get (maybe Madam Sybelle/ Joss / Howard are not so easy). I know that all riders have undead or construct, and there is ton of other models to take. I simply mentioned only most popular ones on internet / local meta. If anyone is eager to describe next models. Please do it. I will edit my entry and give all references to your work :) or it will stay in your post. 

Many models advices are from @daniello_s from other topics. So it's not my pure work. 

Thanks @Cedar for next model pointed. 

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1 hour ago, Jafar said:

Izamu / Rogue Necromancy: Big bad 10 ss killers, both different but deadly. Izamu is hard to kill if you won't ignore armor, Rogue has :+fate to attack and dmg flip when has at least half wounds) Rogue is also construct.

Which one would you prefer? I'm eyeing on one of them to get but can't decide which one (and I'm afraid I'll grab both ;))

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3 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Which one would you prefer? I'm eyeing on one of them to get but can't decide which one (and I'm afraid I'll grab both ;))

I don't have the Rogue Necromancy, only Izamu so this may not be the best of advice, but i think the Rogue Necromancy might be the better choice. Izamu is very hard to kill and very dangerous, but his goal is to lock enemies down in his engagement, which isn't super useful to some of the ranged pieces you might take and won't do quite as well for setting up your abomination :pulse as Montresor and belles might. The Rogue Necromancy has smell fear, so Levi's attack (or any of the many horror duels levi's hiring pool can access) will cause him to get a free hit on an opponent, plus if you are randomizing between RN and the target you can make him take the attack anyway, so hes a better choice to randomize than most. The Rogue Necromancy will also benefit greatly from healing provided by the Freikorps Librarian to help maintain those :+fate he gets at above half wounds.

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Just now, Cedar said:

@Jafar You forgot Terracotta Warrior for Iron Levi- he helps constructs who can heal, like Engine, Teddy or Lazarus to survive fatal wound.

My understanding of this is they place ancient protection on a model, then this lets them take the damage in place of the model and then place a card from hand to the bottom of the deck to avoid that damage altogether right? How does this interact with Rusty Alyce's Burn Out? I don't think it helps you prevent that does it?

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Just now, Nukemouse said:

My understanding of this is they place ancient protection on a model, then this lets them take the damage in place of the model and then place a card from hand to the bottom of the deck to avoid that damage altogether right? How does this interact with Rusty Alyce's Burn Out? I don't think it helps you prevent that does it?

Latest FAQ states, that you can't redirect damage from Burn Out to a Warrior. 

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8 hours ago, Nukemouse said:

If there isn't enough soft cover on the board for everything you want to target to be in it, the terrain probably hasn't been set up fairly.

I think that this is a strange assertion. There are any number of reasons for models to be out of cover.

Maybe they needed to perform a Scheme or Strat and are therefore out of cover. Maybe they Charged something, killed it and are therefore out of cover. Maybe they are in behind a fence getting hard cover against your Laz but your Levi appeared behind them denying them cover. Maybe they had to spread out a bit so as not to get everyone bogged down by a beater charging into them (or be all under the same evil Pulse or whatever). Maybe they had to clump up because of a beneficial Aura and the forest isn't big enough for all of them. Maybe someone Pushed or Lured them out of the cover.

Or, and this is probably the biggest, maybe the table looks like one in 90% of the tournament tables presented in the battle reports forum and doesn't feature enough terrain to get everyone into cover and perfect position to do stuff at the same time all the time.

Sure, there are turns when all the targets you wish to vaporize are in cover. But there are at least as many turns where this isn't true. Or at least that's my experience and we game with quite a lot of terrain. Any more and Sonnia/Rasputina would be completely unbeatable most of the time.

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4 hours ago, Kadeton said:

One of the most difficult aspects of Levi's playstyle is that he's possibly the most intensely selfish Master in the game. By that, I mean that he does nothing to enhance his crew in any tangible way (except to note that adding two free Activations is of great benefit to any selection of models).

Selfish yes but I don't think he is unique in that sense. Misaki, to pick the first one that come to mind, doesn't do much in the way of support, either, for example (don't have the cards in front of me but I believe she has, on an Upgrade that is seldom seen, an Aura that gives some kind of a bonus to Horror Duels (passing them for a Wd?) but, unless I'm missing something crucial, that's, it).

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1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I think that this is a strange assertion. There are any number of reasons for models to be out of cover.

Maybe they needed to perform a Scheme or Strat and are therefore out of cover. Maybe they Charged something, killed it and are therefore out of cover. Maybe they are in behind a fence getting hard cover against your Laz but your Levi appeared behind them denying them cover. Maybe they had to spread out a bit so as not to get everyone bogged down by a beater charging into them (or be all under the same evil Pulse or whatever). Maybe they had to clump up because of a beneficial Aura and the forest isn't big enough for all of them. Maybe someone Pushed or Lured them out of the cover.

Or, and this is probably the biggest, maybe the table looks like one in 90% of the tournament tables presented in the battle reports forum and doesn't feature enough terrain to get everyone into cover and perfect position to do stuff at the same time all the time.

Sure, there are turns when all the targets you wish to vaporize are in cover. But there are at least as many turns where this isn't true. Or at least that's my experience and we game with quite a lot of terrain. Any more and Sonnia/Rasputina would be completely unbeatable most of the time.

I think perhaps you might be taking that comment a tad too literally. My point was more that being in cover is practically the default on a table with as much terrain as the rulebook designates is a good idea and that being out of it is a risk that a player is choosing to take to get something else done. To be honest i find cover pretty helpful against most Sonnia crews, though of course Samael can take advantage of it most often it usually forces the opponent to try and burn you before they can drop the big attacks on you, which is better than them just blasting you away to begin with.

I don't know if they meant unique, just that their opinion of Levi is that he is more selfish than other masters. I personally can understand that view to some extent, especially compared to Misaki as though Misaki doesn't do any support, her role is more to sacrifice herself (or better yet, live!) picking off key pieces to set up for your other models to win the game by ignoring their "normal" defenses. Its not really support, but i don't think its "selfish" its more or less what Levi used to do, but with Misaki the way you do it is very different. I've never really tried to cross over any Misaki or Levi builds for this reason, though they might both have had a kind of assassin vibe the models they need to accomplish this are almost night and day!

On a side note, other than for the ever useful anti-push/place aura is there any especially good use for Anna Lovelace in a Levi crew? I imagine he could take some models that can get a little use out of the seishin/mindless zombies she can create and thematically a crazy clockwork lady channeling powers from the beyond sounds like a lovely fit for Levi's ragtag band.

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4 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

I think perhaps you might be taking that comment a tad too literally. My point was more that being in cover is practically the default on a table with as much terrain as the rulebook designates is a good idea and that being out of it is a risk that a player is choosing to take to get something else done.

I think that overstating the case so much makes the whole argument weird. I don't play Levi (play against him) but I play plenty of shooting and I don't have extraordinary difficulty in finding worthwhile targets out of cover due to the multitude of reasons I listed - even when there is "enough" terrain on the table. If you find yourself shooting into cover with Levi 90% of the time, I think that something is amiss or else you can likely take advantage of your opponents' propensity of always being in cover.

4 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

To be honest i find cover pretty helpful against most Sonnia crews, though of course Samael can take advantage of it most often it usually forces the opponent to try and burn you before they can drop the big attacks on you, which is better than them just blasting you away to begin with.

I meant that our tables already tend to have so much terrain that adding more would make Flame Walls and Ice Pillars utterly game winningly OP in that games against those Masters would be over before they began much of the time. Otherwise cover is indeed useful against Raspy and Sonnia.

4 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

I don't know if they meant unique, just that their opinion of Levi is that he is more selfish than other masters. I personally can understand that view to some extent, especially compared to Misaki as though Misaki doesn't do any support, her role is more to sacrifice herself (or better yet, live!) picking off key pieces to set up for your other models to win the game by ignoring their "normal" defenses. Its not really support, but i don't think its "selfish" its more or less what Levi used to do, but with Misaki the way you do it is very different. I've never really tried to cross over any Misaki or Levi builds for this reason, though they might both have had a kind of assassin vibe the models they need to accomplish this are almost night and day!

One key difference is that much of the time a Misaki list includes quite a few pieces to help Misaki while Levi doesn't usually need much support - heck, even suggesting Belles to Lure models out of cover was seen as way too much commitment from the crew towards the Master earlier in the thread. So I would argue that taken like that, Misaki is way more "selfish".

That said, since Misaki is the other Outcast "assassin" type Master, I think that it would be wortwhile to ask whether she makes the errataed Levi superfluous? I don't think so but many others here in the thread seem to be of the opinion that the "new" Levi is useless. Is Misaki useless as well or is she simply better than Levi?

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Useless is a strong word and i really don't like how many people are throwing it around now, it misrepresents the discussion imo. Like i said i think Misaki is mechanically distinct from Levi, otherwise I'd probably have said at the start of this thread to play new Levi like Misaki! To be honest i feel like Von Schill is a bit of an assassin myself, but maybe thats just the way i play him.

Ive been thinking that Return Fire might be decent on a Peacekeeper, Mech Rider or Pale Rider, but are there any other models Levi can take to abuse that with? Return Fire doesn't work for henchmen does it?

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49 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

Useless is a strong word and i really don't like how many people are throwing it around now, it misrepresents the discussion imo. Like i said i think Misaki is mechanically distinct from Levi, otherwise I'd probably have said at the start of this thread to play new Levi like Misaki! To be honest i feel like Von Schill is a bit of an assassin myself, but maybe thats just the way i play him.

Ive been thinking that Return Fire might be decent on a Peacekeeper, Mech Rider or Pale Rider, but are there any other models Levi can take to abuse that with? Return Fire doesn't work for henchmen does it?

I was thinking about giving return fire to all these models, but oathkeeper/scramble/the bigger they are is better option for few reasons:

1. You need to be able to perform Sh action, so if you are engaged and hit the trigger, you probably won't be able to perform attack due to engagement. Only models capable of doing so are Sue and Gunslingers.

2. In case of riders it competes with their built-in Def triggers. It's still a nice option for Wp duels, but in Def duels you will probably hit the auto trigger(or cheat with high crows, which isn't a good option, since many Levi models require crow to hit desolate warping).

3. Yes, Return fire is enforcer only upgrade.

Levi now plays differently than before- he should try to finish wounded models with his low damage instead of trying to kill big beaters. He is not an assassin anymore, but a guy that tries to land a final blow. 

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