whodares Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I've decided to venture a bit into Lynch as he seems like a lot of fun with the Ace discard shenannigans he can pull. After my unsuccessful adventure with Shenlong (a bit too much to keep track of for me) and my decent usage of Yan Lo (still figuring out why I suck so much at placing my Izamu and Soul Porter), how hard would you rate Lynch? I'm not looking at tournament level, but more at a friendly play level. Thanks to this thread, I've gotten a few idea's on what I should get. I'm unfortunately a bit on a budget, so getting the Emissary will be a stretch unless you have a very, very convincing argument for him. Right now I have the following crew: Shenlong box Yan Lo box Izamu Lone Swordsman Tengu (3x) Katanaka Sniper (3x thx shenlong box) Toshiro Punk Zombie (3x) Komainu (2x) I'm thinking of getting the Lynch box with Beckoners, TT Brothers and Depleted. The Emissary will be cut for budgettary reasons and the fact that I have Sensei Yu, but you can always try to convince me. I've seen a couple of pro-contra here for either, but I'm not really sure as to how they differ so much in role. Some clarification here would also be great. Then for Lynch's upgrades, I find it hard to decide between The Rising Sun and Endless Hunger. I'm feeling a bit better for Endless Hunger as that extra Ca is one hell of a lot of possible damage from Huggy. I'll probably take Woke Up With A Hand by default as well and the Wanna See A Trick (52 Pickup) seems strong as well and I'll probably baseline run those 3 upgrades on him. Is this good or not? Convince me! My last question is regarding Huggy's upgrade Addict. I've barely seen it mentioned. Is this because you barely run any Darkened with Lynch and Huggy himself doesn't benefit from it? I made a general skeleton that I'll use. You can have some insight in what I'm planning to do and how I'm planning to run Lynch. Feel free to comment on it. Lynch (Woke up with a hand, Wanna see a trick, Endless Hunger / The Risiing sun) Huggy (Recalled Training if I take Endless Hunger, else no upgrade) Sensei Yu (Wandering River Style) Illuminated Beckoner Katanaka Sniper (focus ranged for some area denying) TT Brother (schemes and tarpit, ace dropping for defensive is just evil) Depleted (tarpitting and handing out brilliance) Thanks for reading this far and I hope I can learn a lot from your feedback! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokapondora Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 hours ago, whodares said: ...snip... Lynch is a very forgiving master, so he's great if you're still getting the hang of the game. Just be sure not to get too carried away. I'd generally pick Yu over the Emissary with Lynch anyways, so that's good. Yu allows you to manoeuvre the otherwise sluggish Lynch and even give him fast, which with the right hand can be absolutely devastating. Also, the extra mulligan really makes for some amazing hands. Also Yu works on Minions. If you're buying on a budget, or even just with an eye on the future, I'd say you can leave the Beckoners and Depleted. They're good, but there's also TT stuff that might play differently but is equally good while also fitting with your other masters. I'd get a Yin, who is really just a solid piece especially when paired with Huggy, and also works very well with Yan Lo. And then the TTB, naturally, and maybe the Shadow Effigy. If you have the new upgrades, you might want to consider a Low River Monk too for how amazing they are. The best part about Lynch is that he can run with just about any list and make it stronger. Your list looks fairly solid. I'd take out Wanna see a Trick (too unreliable/gimmicky), and even if you get Yin instead of a Beckoner you can still easily spare the 1 SS on the RT with or without Endless Hunger. Maybe even get one on Lynch. Endless Hunger is one of those cards I'd only run if I had a good sense of who and what I was going up against. It's great and makes Huggy a real powerhouse, but considering his 3 Df one poor matchup means you can wave Huggy goodbye. Meanwhile Rising Sun really just allows you to hurl him in there somewhere and pick him or his scraps back up somewhere down the line. As for Addict... I like the card, and do from time to time try to make use of it, but ultimately things that get tagged with Brilliance tend to die that same activation leaving a pair of disappointed Illuminated. Maybe if you took a Beckoner, but even then you'd need at least 2 Illuminated to really make it worth your while (which is 3x 7ss). I suppose in a very Darkened heavy list it would work but I guess I prefer not to run it that thematically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 18 hours ago, Tokapondora said: snip Thanks for the feedback. You've given me some great suggestions. I do have my doubts, so I hope you can clear them up. I like Yin, but I'm not sure if I like him with Lynch. He's a great tarpit model that can do damage while tarpitting, but I feel he's not really fitting into the crew that I'm thinking of. I feel like a Depleted could do thesame job as Yin while handing out Brilliance and only costing 4ss. The only thing Yin has going for him imo are the Viscera and the "no walk/charge" trigger. Am I not seeing any value? Am I unerestimating Yin or overestimating Depleted? Shadow Effigy seems useless to me and I feel much better getting a Tengu than the Effigy. Effigy has Accomplice and is rather sturdy with HtK and Armor +1, but Tengu is just so slippery and can heal himself and other models on activation. I feel they have similar roles with the scheme marker stuff, so what am I missing? I don't have the new upgrades, but I read on the forums that it gives the monks a heal flip. That seems nice, but I can't really say anything further as I have no idea what the TN is, howmuch they heal, ... The downsides of not having the card. Even then I feel like they might be overkill in a crew that already has Yu as he's 12ss on an almost purely supportive model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 I ran a lynch list last night that tried having just the single soulstone - it worked better than expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoatz Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, whodares said: I like Yin, but I'm not sure if I like him with Lynch. He's a great tarpit model that can do damage while tarpitting, but I feel he's not really fitting into the crew that I'm thinking of. I feel like a Depleted could do thesame job as Yin while handing out Brilliance and only costing 4ss. The only thing Yin has going for him imo are the Viscera and the "no walk/charge" trigger. Am I not seeing any value? Am I unerestimating Yin or overestimating Depleted? Yin can also make enemy models have a on WP duels. Lynch benefits from that as could other models in your crew. And if that model tries to attack Yin or Huggy, the model will have a much harder time passing the terrifying duel. I feel like you're underestimating Yin a tad. 1 hour ago, whodares said: Shadow Effigy seems useless to me and I feel much better getting a Tengu than the Effigy. Effigy has Accomplice and is rather sturdy with HtK and Armor +1, but Tengu is just so slippery and can heal himself and other models on activation. I feel they have similar roles with the scheme marker stuff, so what am I missing? If you can keep Tengu hidden to do their scheme running, then Tengu are fine. But they typically die faster than the Shadow Effigy. Plus the Shadow Effigy can give your leader a condition that you can use to make an attacking model attack at a . It doesn't cost any cards either. I feel like they tend to fill different roles. 1 hour ago, whodares said: I don't have the new upgrades, but I read on the forums that it gives the monks a heal flip. That seems nice, but I can't really say anything further as I have no idea what the TN is, howmuch they heal, ... The downsides of not having the card. Even then I feel like they might be overkill in a crew that already has Yu as he's 12ss on an almost purely supportive model. It's a decent 1/2/3 heal needing an 8 I believe. I don't have the card on me. I don't always use the monk, but when I feel like I need condition removal and healing then I take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 24 minutes ago, skoatz said: Yin can also make enemy models have a on WP duels. Lynch benefits from that as could other models in your crew. And if that model tries to attack Yin or Huggy, the model will have a much harder time passing the terrifying duel. I feel like you're underestimating Yin a tad. I knew I was forgetting something. Makes it a lot easier for Huggy to get his Brilliance and Terrifying off and for Lynch to also get the Brilliance on a model and do 2 damage. Totally forget they had Ca targetting instead of Df! 26 minutes ago, skoatz said: If you can keep Tengu hidden to do their scheme running, then Tengu are fine. But they typically die faster than the Shadow Effigy. Plus the Shadow Effigy can give your leader a condition that you can use to make an attacking model attack at a . It doesn't cost any cards either. I feel like they tend to fill different roles. A big problem I have is that I might have too many models close to eachother. I'll be having Lynch, Yu and Huggy in relative proximity to give fast and spread out the Brilliance a bit. Getting another model (Effigy) next to that, means I'll barely have side pressure as he can't tarpit that well and only does 1 damage. A Tengu on the other hand is extremely slippery, does decent damage imo for a 4ss scheme model and can hand out regeneration. Lynch shouldn't be getting that actively targetted either way, so I can't really see the value of Effigy with him. Well, unless you play frontline Lynch, but I don'ty really see that happening when you have Sensei Yu to push single enemy models within his Final Debt range either way. 38 minutes ago, skoatz said: It's a decent 1/2/3 heal needing an 8 I believe. I don't have the card on me. I don't always use the monk, but when I feel like I need condition removal and healing then I take it. Thanks for the information. I can't really find a space for a monk though, as I usually take Chiaki if I need heal and condition removal. On the other hand, he costs less stones while not losing any efficiency. I'm probably not going to get the monk, but I might proxy him to see how it works out. I'm learning so much about Lynch and crew synergies today, you guysmade me a happy man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoatz Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 hours ago, Joel said: I ran a lynch list last night that tried having just the single soulstone - it worked better than expected When you say it worked better than expected, did you regret only having one soulstone or were you fine having just one? 1 hour ago, whodares said: stuff Lynch is a lot of fun. It's enjoyable pointing Lynch at something and deleting it from the table. I'm glad you're enjoying him so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 18 minutes ago, skoatz said: Lynch is a lot of fun. It's enjoyable pointing Lynch at something and deleting it from the table. I'm glad you're enjoying him so far. I don't have Lynch, I'm thinking of getting him. I like masters with unique mechanics and the card recycle from Lynch looks like a lot of fun. I'm mainly theorizing right now on what scenario's he could be good and how his crew could work with him. I'm going to order what I feel like getting and is effective with Lynch and then see how I like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokapondora Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 6 hours ago, whodares said: I like Yin, but I'm not sure if I like him with Lynch. He's a great tarpit model that can do damage while tarpitting, but I feel he's not really fitting into the crew that I'm thinking of. I feel like a Depleted could do thesame job as Yin while handing out Brilliance and only costing 4ss. The only thing Yin has going for him imo are the Viscera and the "no walk/charge" trigger. Am I not seeing any value? Am I unerestimating Yin or overestimating Depleted? Yin has the tankiness, which Lynch's crew really utilises well, but more importantly the to Ca and Wp and the terrifying on her Huggy and to a lesser degree the Illuminated. The makes the checks vs her, Lynch and Huggy much harder, and the terrifying means Huggy can obey units into her terrifying aura, discard an ace to paralyze them, and then get it back again. Overall she's just an incredibly solid model but it's the little tricks and gaps she fills with Lynch that really sell her here, especially if you have some healing backup. 6 hours ago, whodares said: Shadow Effigy seems useless to me and I feel much better getting a Tengu than the Effigy. Effigy has Accomplice and is rather sturdy with HtK and Armor +1, but Tengu is just so slippery and can heal himself and other models on activation. I feel they have similar roles with the scheme marker stuff, so what am I missing? The Shadow Effigy is basically made to be sturdier than he is worth the effort to take down. He has a solid statline for his cost and the to attacks really allow you to play Lynch a bit more forgiving. Tengu I feel tend to not really be worth it unless you're scheming in a distant land and have at least two of them. And even then a soft breeze will tear through them like tissue paper, unlike the Effigy. I'll admit I tend to play my Lynch a bit more frontline but eh. Even without that I'd take an Effigy over one Tengu. 6 hours ago, whodares said: I don't have the new upgrades, but I read on the forums that it gives the monks a heal flip. That seems nice, but I can't really say anything further as I have no idea what the TN is, howmuch they heal, ... The downsides of not having the card. Even then I feel like they might be overkill in a crew that already has Yu as he's 12ss on an almost purely supportive model. The upgrade gives them a 6" heal, needs a 7, healing 1/2/3 and letting you drop a scheme marker on two suits. They heal more reliably than Chiaki and even condition removal goes more easily as theirs doesn't have a TN. So ultimately you'd have, with Yu and a LRM, 15 SS of support. Which I'd say is fine. If you think you can manage without that's great, but I feel that for 4 SS you really get more than enough out of it. Especially if you're taking Chiaki for healing and condition removal anyways, in which case it's essentially 2 ss cheaper. 4 hours ago, whodares said: A big problem I have is that I might have too many models close to eachother. I'll be having Lynch, Yu and Huggy in relative proximity to give fast and spread out the Brilliance a bit. Getting another model (Effigy) next to that, means I'll barely have side pressure as he can't tarpit that well and only does 1 damage. A Tengu on the other hand is extremely slippery, does decent damage imo for a 4ss scheme model and can hand out regeneration. Lynch shouldn't be getting that actively targetted either way, so I can't really see the value of Effigy with him. Well, unless you play frontline Lynch, but I don'ty really see that happening when you have Sensei Yu to push single enemy models within his Final Debt range either way. I essentially use Yu as a means of giving Lynch a possible 18" threat range with 4 actions to boot. I don't have to, but I like the fact that it might happen to linger over the battlefield. And giving the condition really allows you to play a bit more aggresively with Lynch. If something's dragging behind, you can pull them up instead, if you feel it's too dangerous you send in Ototo or Yin or w/e, drag Lynch out while giving him fast for his counter attack... Pulling enemies I rather don't unless it gives me a direct VP advantage, as I'd take the certainty over hoping they both flip poorly and don't care enough to cheat in. You don't need to really bubble up - just try to stick within 10" of Yu and he'll take care of the rest. As for the 1 damage - it's tied to a Ml7. Which can be surprisingly tough to get away from. And with something healy near, that HtK goes a long way if you want to keep someone occupied. If something stumbles upon a Tengu and wants it dead, it's dead in that activation. If something wants the Effigy dead, it's always gonna take that one activation more than they'd planned for. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 7 hours ago, skoatz said: When you say it worked better than expected, did you regret only having one soulstone or were you fine having just one? Lynch is a lot of fun. It's enjoyable pointing Lynch at something and deleting it from the table. I'm glad you're enjoying him so far. I was fine just having one - it made me play in a different way that emphasised the gambler aspects of lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Joel said: I was fine just having one - it made me play in a different way that emphasised the gambler aspects of lynch I do this quite often with Lynch too, usually I play pure cache regardless of master. Lynch is a forgiving Master and can be played with only one stone no problem (if you are being careful ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 nice to hear its not just me - it makes me play him a little more cautiously whioch seems to suit his character (in my head at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I've decided to get the Lynch box with Yin and the 10T brothers. That's already a pretty good investment with the rest that I have and I can go for both killy schemes and marker schemes. Soon I can fill people with fear of Huggy ^^ My crew skeleton right now is: Lynch (Huggy upgrade, Woke up with a Hand, maybe Wanna see a trick) Huggy (Recalled Training depending on soulstones left and which Huggy upgrade I picked) Sensei Yu (Wandering River Style) Yin Katanaka Sniper (area denying and turn 1 nice damage with Yu) TT Brother (Tarpit + amazing scheme marker control) Tengu (Slippery due to scheme markers and regeneration make it easy for him to get to the back) Illuminated (more Brilliance and I find it a good model in general) Obviously I'm not getting a Tengu if I don't have scheme marker things going on. Brother is a 50-50, depending on whether or not I need the second tarpit. Might swap both those out of a second Illuminated or a second sniper or Izamu if I wanna go YOLO HAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furycat Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I'm a big fan of Lynch, been playing him a bit more of late after quite a long spell of mainly Misaki and Shen Long. Lately I've been favouring the Rising Sun upgrade over the Ca expert upgrade, simply because it lets me be far more aggressive with Huggy. I can throw him into enemy beaters, use him to block off charge lanes, and fear opponents with lots of Ca attacks far less, if I can simply bring him back when he dies. Un-bury Killjoy? Sure, whatever. Little bit of careful positioning and his only option is to charge Huggy. I'll take that. On Lynch I've been rather enjoying Woke up with a Hand, and Wanna see a trick. Activating last, and getting +3 cards means Lynch can be a real powerhouse, and with all the + flips TT get I've usually got 2-3 aces in hand when he activates, which is a nice 4-6 damage from Wanna see a trick? without having to worry about much more than positioning, and having brilliant on the victim. Lynch can and will delete hefty models from the table all by himself. Just be careful not to leave him hung out to dry by being over greedy for a kill. Illuminated are fantastic. And not just in Lynch crews, they're pretty much fantastic all around and quite capable of operating all by themselves, away from the crew if needed. I always find they make great frame for murder targets. Simply hurl them into your opponents crew and they're pretty much forced to deal with them. Katanaka snipers are also amazing. Good ranged damage from turn 1 on, solid melee threat, and even a nice (0) slow as a bonus. Don't forget the option of simply charging with them, their damage spread is solid in melee and they still get + flips to the attack. Badass. Other than that, my crew varies widely depending on the strategy/scheme combo and my opponent's faction. Kang is a really nice choice in many situations, he's brutal if you're facing constructs or undead, a solid beater himself, and he makes nearby friendly living models immune to horror duels. This can be very useful for Huggy's healing pulse, as it means your Illuminated and Beckoners will not be needing to make horror duels from it. Any models that have abilities triggered on card discard can be solid thanks to Lynch's Aces rule. Thunder archers with rapid fire can be good if you think the game will turn into a mass brawl (Looking at you, guard the stash), and Rail Workers are fantastic cheap minion which can be surprisingly difficult to kill between their armour, hard to kill, and metal-on-metal trigger. Their offence is good, and gets even better with their (0) to discard a card for + to both attack and damage flips. Another great use for aces. Hopefully that gives you a few ideas, I find Lynch to be a lot of fun and highly effective on the table. Enjoy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 On 11/29/2016 at 3:27 PM, whodares said: I knew I was forgetting something. Makes it a lot easier for Huggy to get his Brilliance and Terrifying off and for Lynch to also get the Brilliance on a model and do 2 damage. Totally forget they had Ca targetting instead of Df! Not sure if no else caught this, but a model hit with Yin's to Ca and Wp duels isn't going to have a when targeted by a Ca action unless it is targeting Wp. The type of duel a model takes is determined by the stat it is using. Huggy attacking a model with Tendrils is going to be making a Ca duel against the targets Df duel, so no . However, using Heed My Voice will cause the target to take a Wp duel, which would impose a on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoatz Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said: Not sure if no else caught this, but a model hit with Yin's to Ca and Wp duels isn't going to have a when targeted by a Ca action unless it is targeting Wp. The type of duel a model takes is determined by the stat it is using. Huggy attacking a model with Tendrils is going to be making a Ca duel against the targets Df duel, so no . However, using Heed My Voice will cause the target to take a Wp duel, which would impose a on them. I think they left out the WP part. That's how I read it, "Ca targeting Wp instead of Df". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 7 hours ago, santaclaws01 said: Not sure if no else caught this, but a model hit with Yin's to Ca and Wp duels isn't going to have a when targeted by a Ca action unless it is targeting Wp. The type of duel a model takes is determined by the stat it is using. Huggy attacking a model with Tendrils is going to be making a Ca duel against the targets Df duel, so no . However, using Heed My Voice will cause the target to take a Wp duel, which would impose a on them. 6 hours ago, skoatz said: I think they left out the WP part. That's how I read it, "Ca targeting Wp instead of Df". Oops, I forgot that indeed. Since he only has 1 attack that can spread Brilliance, I thought it would be clear that I was talking about Heed My Voice. Thanks for noticing and explaining it again. It always helps to get a refresh and some extra info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, whodares said: Oops, I forgot that indeed. Since he only has 1 attack that can spread Brilliance, I thought it would be clear that I was talking about Heed My Voice. Thanks for noticing and explaining it again. It always helps to get a refresh and some extra info. Except it's Tendrils that spreads brilliance on Huggy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodares Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 7 hours ago, santaclaws01 said: Except it's Tendrils that spreads brilliance on Huggy... Fml. I thought that Heed My Voice also gave out Brilliance, but it just makes existing Brilliance last all game. This is why I need to buy him and actually get the cards EDIT: I'm wondering now what the consensus is on Tannen and Graves. I see Tannen appearing in quite a lot of lists, but Graves barely ever (if at all!). Since these models were made for eachother, why is Graves seeing so little play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLuke Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 12 hours ago, whodares said: EDIT: I'm wondering now what the consensus is on Tannen and Graves. I see Tannen appearing in quite a lot of lists, but Graves barely ever (if at all!). Since these models were made for eachother, why is Graves seeing so little play? Graves hits that "cost to value" ratio. He's not terrible but I'd rather have a number of other models in his place most often. I've used him three times so far and only once has he been useful for things other than shoving my own models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 41 minutes ago, LuckyLuke said: Graves hits that "cost to value" ratio. He's not terrible but I'd rather have a number of other models in his place most often. I've used him three times so far and only once has he been useful for things other than shoving my own models. Who would you rather hire at that cost level? Voting for Gravsies here, he has been an excellent bodyguard for Lynch by dragging things away from him and beating them with a post. He's a solid beater and tough enough to hold his own while being themey to boot. Just keep him more than an inch away from Lynch, oh god. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLuke Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said: Who would you rather hire at that cost level? Voting for Gravsies here, he has been an excellent bodyguard for Lynch by dragging things away from him and beating them with a post. He's a solid beater and tough enough to hold his own while being themey to boot. Just keep him more than an inch away from Lynch, oh god. I like to take either 2 other models for running schemes or Swordsman, or save points for my henchman picks. It comes to playstyle I think. I generally do not need a bodyguard as I play very tactically defensive with my masters. (probably why I have Asami, Nellie, Jacob, McCabe, and Lucius). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Feet Posted December 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 This topic has become a great summary of many many Lynch aspects.. Awesome, thanks a lot... Is anybody out there playin the Card-Shark with hired Mercenaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I like to use a pair of ronin with him, they get the "free" flurry when using an Ace, get through armour, and become soulstones during the game as required to keep lynch/huggy topped up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Johan with Hiddden Agenda/Recalled Training getting extra pushes from the Emissary is a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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