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Surrealistik

Rasputina for a Guild Player

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I love tabling people as Sonnia, and so after taking a look at Rasputina, I'm interested in blowing a couple hundred on models to fill her out given her similar schticks ala Ice Wall spam, indirect fire, blast templates and so on. I'm familiar with the usual array of tips from PullMyFinger, but I'm wondering if some veterans of the master could provide some extra/unusual insights.

So far as a baseline list goes, I'm thinking:

Rasputina: Seize the Day, Armour of December, Cold Nights

Wendigo

Snow Storm: Sub Zero (would Armour of December be better? Imbued Defenses?), Imbued Energies

2x Silent One

2x December Acolyte

Ice Gamin

Other models I plan on purchasing: Arcane Emissary, Ice Dancers, Arcane Effigy, Essence of Power (for Shattered Heart/blasty Rasputina), RoF Carlos Santana (for more blocking markers), Kudra (Illusionary Forest + Ice Pillar synergy). I already have Mech Rider. Any recommendations as purchases go, including mercs?

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I personally like the Blessed of December, as a solid mobile model that is capable of scheme running, and scheme runner killing pretty well. 

I quite like the Ice Golem, but probably only in hold the middle type missions. Blasty Rasputina will probably want more than 1 ice gamin, to make sure you have bite of winter redundancy. 

Personally I much prefer Arcane resevoir over Seize the day, btu thats a huge play style thing. and you'll have the upgrades anyway, you can chose re-arrange crew to suit. 

 

The typical suggested counter to Rasputina is to tie her up in combat. You seem to already know this, with armour of december and Snow storm. 

My first impression of your list is that there is to much support and not enough mobility, but i might be wrong, and anyway, you don't need much mobility in some games.

 

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@Mrbedlam @Adran

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yeah, mobility may be an issue, but it is a baseline list; I think in scheme arrays that emphasize mobility, Ice Dancers and the Arcane Emissary (Ice Bridge) would be good options. Angelica per Mrbedlam's suggestion also seems like a good choice.

I'm pretty leery of the Ice Golem between that horrifying Df2 and relative paucity of wounds, even with Armor +2, and lack of mobility (even if Snow Storm can help it out a little); it might be worthwhile with Angelica. Either way, I can field it as necessary since I get the thing with Rasputina's box set.

Arcane Reservoir holds strong appeal; an extra card each turn is obviously quite valuable, particularly with Ice Gamin to pitch cards to. I strongly considered it, but ultimately leaned towards Seize the Day if only because Rasputina seems to benefit from winning Initiative in particular due to her Ice Walls and Paralyze (and Wendigo Companion activate for Devour follow up!), denying your opponent from getting that key activation or action set early in the turn; that it costs 1 SS less is a nice bonus. Might be worth trying in some lists though; I'll be sure to give it a shot.

Blessed of December looks good; I suppose the best way to run her would be via shapeshifting Myranda?

 

Also any particular lists you guys favour?

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49 minutes ago, Surrealistik said:

@Mrbedlam @Adran

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yeah, mobility may be an issue, but it is a baseline list; I think in scheme arrays that emphasize mobility, Ice Dancers and the Arcane Emissary (Ice Bridge) would be good options. Angelica per Mrbedlam's suggestion also seems like a good choice.

I'm pretty leery of the Ice Golem between that horrifying Df2 and relative paucity of wounds, even with Armor +2, and lack of mobility (even if Snow Storm can help it out a little); it might be worthwhile with Angelica. Either way, I can field it as necessary since I get the thing with Rasputina's box set.

Arcane Reservoir holds strong appeal; an extra card each turn is obviously quite valuable, particularly with Ice Gamin to pitch cards to. I strongly considered it, but ultimately leaned towards Seize the Day if only because Rasputina seems to benefit from winning Initiative in particular due to her Ice Walls and Paralyze (and Wendigo Companion activate for Devour follow up!), denying your opponent from getting that key activation or action set early in the turn; that it costs 1 SS less is a nice bonus. Might be worth trying in some lists though; I'll be sure to give it a shot.

Blessed of December looks good; I suppose the best way to run her would be via shapeshifting Myranda?

 

Also any particular lists you guys favour?

Some people bring a Metal Gamin to help the Ice Golem, boosting his Df to 6, at which point he is much tougher to shift. He can also throw it elsewhere if need be. I'm not sure if it's worth spending that 4ss on a babysitting Gamin to be honest.

You're right, Myranda is the way to go if you aim to bring in a 9ss beastie like the Blessed or the Cerberus, and you always want to give her Imbued Energies. You essentially get 4 free cards when she sacrifices herself to summon it, since she's 1ss cheaper than them. The only drawback is that your beast will be slow that turn.

You could instead opt to hire a Blessed with Imbued Energies of it's own to have a faster threat range from the get go, especially since they have Leap. Or hire both Myranda AND Blessed, wait till the Blessed goes down, then summon another.

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My crew 9/10 times looks like:

Raspy - Arcane Reservoir, Cold Nights, and Shattered Heart - I've never really needed Seize the day.  Assuming you've placed your pillars correctly last round, they should still be effective at the beginning of the round (remember they stay until the model activates, not until the end of the round).  Also shattered heart is just so critical to the way I play raspy.  Being able to cast from any point within 10" of raspy essentially without penalty is very powerful.  People are often able to resist Ca5 but Ca7 swings things into your favor most of the time.  Additionally, being able to surge off of said casts will keep you in a commanding position regarding your hand.  Needing a 3 of tomes to surge vs a 5 of tomes without being able to surge through a frozen heart model (placing ice walls) is a substantial difference over the course of a game imo (Potentialily 5+ cards if you ice wall every turn).

Wendigo - One of the best totems in the game, nuff said.

SnowStorm - Keeps Raspy safer from guns and allows great re-positioning within the crew.  Plus hes a decent beater.

Mechanical Rider - Oh so many great things about this model.  Raspy or the wendigo can give it 2 armor making it such a waste to go after if they don't have ways to stop damage reduction.  She summons ice gamin for me giving me additional avenues of attack with Raspy or 2dmg bombs that I'll run into clusters of enemies.  She scheme runs very efficiently AND provides an additional source of card draw (Card draw is very critical to the way I play raspy).

December Acolyte X2 - I mean, they're one of the best minions in the game.  Being able to drag models out of position (I once dragged a Wong into a bad spot and devoured him with the wendigo.) is icing on top of the Raspy control game.  Making your opponents slow is just insane.  The game is won on management of AP.  When you can reduce your opponents AP effectively, turn after turn, well you set yourself up for a win.  Finally, they drain cards very effectively.  It's not uncommon for me to draw upwards of 4-5 cards a turn with surge, mech rider, and reservoir and have them discard 2ish cards.  That much disparity between hands makes it very difficult to combat raspy face to face with cards.  Either I'm drawing high cards into my hand, or I'm drawing the bad cards out of my deck making me flip much hotter.  While you have a hand of 4 or less cards (typically).  They start where you want which is great for positioning mirror models, dropping schemes, or harassing the enemy player.  IE: If I deploy second and see a slop hauler, I'll place 12" away and hope to focus shoot it dead turn 1.

Arcane Effigy - Great scheme runner.  Difficult to remove for its cost.  Makes raspy do more damage when blasting. AND he can remove conditions.  Such a solid model in raspys crew.  I consider dropping him and adding Imbued energies to mech rider + Snowstorm if I see show of force on the docket.

As you can see I play Raspy fairly low on stones (3-5) depending on effigy.  I find I don't often need to stone for cards (arcane reservoir and the insane amount of draw already in the crew) as I can build up hands every turn fairly effectively.  I often don't stone for initiative as pillars last until the models next activation and I often don't need to stone for prevention (Raspy is usually far away from danger and snowstorm is really only at risk in melee or vs casting).

The list looks small at 6-7 models but keep in mind mech rider adds a model each turn after the first and the crew is decent at putting out ranged damage and or denying ap (slow + paralyze).

 

Wow that was much more than I intended but Raspy is just that good, in a faction with plenty of good options.  I started playing sonnia as well and while sonnia is a better pure blaster, raspy provides so many more options and control while still threatening a lot of damage.  Some games I blast, some games I give out 2 armor to my crew, some games I paralyze and slow everything that threatens me.  Her low Mov has been a good source of training for me in that I really don't waste AP on walking with my masters anymore.  She doesn't get any benefit from walking so planning ahead with snowstorm places and frozen heart models is key to being powerful.

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@crimzzen

Yeah, I definitely plan on rocking Mech Rider sometime alongside the obligatory Snow Storm.

It's an interesting list, and certainly one I'd consider for a Shattered Heart Rasputina; not much I disagree with. I will note however that winning initiative does help significantly in a build running Silent Ones as their pillars last until the end of turn. Beyond that, Rasputina also benefits significantly from going first via handing out Paralyze, and repositioning Ice Walls to adapt to the enemy position, then Companioning into a Wendigo activation who also hands out Paralyze/IW/Devour, allowing you to preemptively neuter the most powerful/high impact models of the enemy crew before they can do anything. Even though IWs remain until she activates, it still may be worth it to redeploy them where they're most needed/valuable per changes in enemy disposition/placement.

 

@hydranixx

Yep, Imbued Energies Myranda is a very potent synergy that immediately leapt out at me. 

I do think blowing 4 SS to babby-sit the Ice Golem is a bit much; if I'm going to spend 10 SS on a model, it should be able to stand by itself as a rule; in general I can't see a compelling reason to take Ice Golem over Arcane Emissary, Mech Rider or Myranda, and other such competition

 

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7 hours ago, Surrealistik said:

Beyond that, Rasputina also benefits significantly from going first via handing out Paralyze, and repositioning Ice Walls to adapt to the enemy position

Since both these effects last until either Rasputina or the paralysed model activates it doesn't matter that much if you do them at the end of a turn or the start of the next, unless the opponent massively out activates you there won't have been that many activation in between.

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19 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Since both these effects last until either Rasputina or the paralysed model activates it doesn't matter that much if you do them at the end of a turn or the start of the next, unless the opponent massively out activates you there won't have been that many activation in between.

Oh for sure, if you went essentially last in the turn with Rasputina/Wendigo, then going first in the next isn't quite as important due to no significant changes in the state of the opposing crew. That said, having that initiative edge remains valuable in that it affords more freedom in your activation order, thereby allowing you to take advantages of opportunities that you otherwise may not have if you opted to activate at the bottom of the turn (assuming you can). Also, the more stuff you can paralyze/devour before your opponent gets to act the better per a chain activation at the end of the round and at the start of the next; paralyzing and devouring a big slew of enemy models before they get a chance to do anything about it with up to 4 consecutive activations is great.

 

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My newest list is
Raspy (Reservoir, Seize, Cold Nights)

Snow Storm (Sub Zero)

Emissary (Elemental)

Silent ONe

Wendigo

Acolyte

Ice Dancer

 

Haven't played it but a handful of times. The Emissary gets some work done though,

 

 

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Personally I rate the blessed of december carrying Imbued energies rather than using Myranda to turn into one. 

For me, controlling the turn I get extra AP on the model works better than the extra ap on the first turn, and some extra cards on the first turn. If I don't know what I want, then Myranda with Imbued is an option, but if I know I want a blessed, then  I often want an upgraded blessed, and so happily pay teh stone tax for it. 

 

I also don't think that you have analysed Seize the day correctly. From  the sounds of what you are doing is creating s  self required activation order. If you start with an early Rasputina activation and paralyse your opponents, then you'll need an early activation next turn as well  to paralyse them again before they act. But if you activate her after them have been in that turn and paralyse them, then you don't want to activate Rasputina till late the next turn to ensure they have shifted the first paralysis. 

But I don't rate the importance of the imitative flip because I keep losing it regardless, and so naturally now play as if I won't win. 

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@Adran

What I meant by my earlier analysis of Seize is this in a nutshell: if you go at the bottom of the turn with Rasputina/Wendigo, then win initiative and have Rasputina/Wendigo go at the start of the next turn, that's 4 consecutive activations during which you can paralyze/kill and devour the enemy crew completely unmolested, while they have no chance to get rid of conditions or rescue models. Naturally, if there are paralyzed models you didn't kill that survived the 2nd turn, they could be a liability in the 3rd/following turn assuming you don't win initiative as they could act then, but then you have Seize to help with that.

That said, such an activation order isn't necessarily always desirable; I was stating the possible benefits of winning initiative and going first in the event Rasputina acts at the bottom of the prior turn in response to Bengt pointing out that Ice Pillar redeployment in this case isn't impactful given that the enemy state hasn't really changed.

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I find its rare that Rasputina lists have the numbers that mean that they can have the last 2 activations of a turn. She is one who seems to have a more elite crew, and so is unlikely to activate last. Not saying its not possible, and she is capable of lowering enemy activations fairly fast, but  I think I find that he has to weather 1 or 2 activations from the enemy most of the time at the end of the first couple of turns. You can build to change that, but she doesn't want too many low cost models, and has a glut of 6+ support as well as expensive hitters, and also a potentially expensive upgrade outlay. 

 

 

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@Adran

Oh I totally agree. I actually cited earlier that this may not at all be a possibility when touting the advantages of having an initiative edge. In most cases your opponent isn't going to run out of activations before you do, and there will usually be one or two after yours, even if you deliberately choose to have Rasputina/Wendigo act late. That said, if you can pull it off, 4 consecutive activations is pretty devastating. My point in response to Bengt is that having an initiative edge is pretty much always invaluable, particularly with a crew like Rasputina's which is capable of some devastating chain activations.

 

Also curious, for those running Shattered Mirror; what are your favoured tricks for breaking Rasputina out of melee? Do you take an additional mobility model like the Arcane Emissary? A Performer? Angelica?

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5 hours ago, Surrealistik said:

Also curious, for those running Shattered Mirror; what are your favoured tricks for breaking Rasputina out of melee? Do you take an additional mobility model like the Arcane Emissary? A Performer? Angelica?

Sadly, Angelica can't push leaders out of melee. IMO your best bet is the ever-present Snow Storm, its substitute the Captain, or a pack of Silent Ones to eradicate those fast but not terribly resilient models that engage Rasputina from a serious distance. Other than that, try and avoid the Valedictorian at any price :)

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@angyi

Damn, you're right, non-Leader. :\

Given the Captain's price and lack of Frozen Heart, I'd probably opt for the Arcane Emissary over him; Ice Bridge would work magnificently.

My single biggest reservation about crimzzen's list is the fact that only Snow Storm can really help Rasputina out of a bind.

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The Captain is not an obviois choice, but it has its upsides, eg. he can push enemy models too. Nice set up for maximum damage from blasts. While Rasputina works perfectly with an all frozen heart crew, you shouldn't be afraid to experiment with others. If you only have 1-2 models w/o frozen heart, that can be easily fixed via December's touch if need be.

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14 hours ago, Surrealistik said:

@angyi

Damn, you're right, non-Leader. :\

Given the Captain's price and lack of Frozen Heart, I'd probably opt for the Arcane Emissary over him; Ice Bridge would work magnificently.

My single biggest reservation about crimzzen's list is the fact that only Snow Storm can really help Rasputina out of a bind.

This is pretty much why I always default to Armor of December.  I do want to pick up or make a proxy for the Arcane Emissary so I can try tag teaming it with snowstorm.

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@angyi

Yeah, I admit the Captain has some nice utility, particularly in that he can disrupt enemy positioning, set up blasts and even give Rasputina's Freeze Over some extra mileage. Definitely worth some consideration.

@MetaphoricDragn

Given the rapidity with which some models can close to melee and tie up Rasp, even with Ice Pillars, I have to agree that being without Armor is pretty scary given she relies wholly on other models to bail her out if she gets engaged. Though the benefit of Shattered Mirror is delicious, Armor does let her be a lot more aggressive, and give her many more options with her positioning, besides letting her escape with trivial ease an otherwise problematic situation.

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Re: Rasputina in combat.

It's never happened.  Perhaps my opponents haven't considered her attacks are all projectiles but she's 10" behind her frozen heart models casting through them, it's not a trivial task to get to her alive.  There's no reason to ever bring her up or put her into a position where she can be attacked if you don't want.  If something REALLY REALLY wants to get into melee with her, through your ice pillars and deep into your lines, you need to capitalize on all that wasted AP and unsupported model.  And as always, there's snow storm to yank you out and place you on the other side of him.  I guess I haven't had a raptor dropped on me yet but again, I'd just snowstorm out or have the wendigo devour it nabbing me fast.

I'd be more on board with Armor if it could be cast on other models as well.  Like if the Wendigo could use it on Raspy.  Spending 1 ap for a 3" push and 1 armor without a surge trigger is a really bad use of her AP imo (The armor isn't gonna save her and unless you kill whatever engaged her its just gonna charge you again).  Part of Raspys power is spot removal from far away.  If you see a model that looks like it's bee-lining for you, you need to set up some mirrors and blow it out of the water.  If they're running say a crooligan at you to tie you up, send mech rider to deal with it, dropping ice mirrors on the way and nabbing you a few cards with triggers.  Hand out slow with acolytes or drag it away.  I'd much rather use a minions ap than a masters ap.  Raspy is one of if not the most controlling masters/crew.  She can control your hand, your access to the board, and your AP.  You just need to apply it correctly.  What she suffers in mobility she makes up in reach.

Re: Seize the day

If it was more guaranteed or made the flip cheatable I'd be on board.  But a +flip while improving your odds doesn't secure the win.  It can also potentially burn an extra high card.  Give it a shot, maybe it works for you, but keep cognizant of where your ice pillars are each round and if you could have achieved the same thing without the upgrade.  For me, the extra card over 5 turns has been worth more (reservoir).

 

 

Just my personal experiences, IF armor and seize work for you then by all means use them.  Play-styles vary by player and meta, Wyrd made the upgrades for a reason! haha!

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@crimzzen

How many games have you played with that list, and against which factions? I definitely find it odd that your Rasputina has _never_ been bogged down in melee, as she becomes a big bullseye target with Shattered Mirror, and only Snow Storm to save her. This isn't to say that I disbelieve you, but I am pretty shocked at the fact.

I agree that Rasputina virtually always has better things to do for 1 AP than push 3" and gain some Armour, but in those situations where you'd actually use the push, 1 AP to escape an engagement effortlessly with +1 Armour as icing is IMO a bargain given Rasputina's helplessness in melee and difficulty disengaging per her 4 Df; follow up with a Paralyze/2x December Curse/Biting Chill on whatever charged you and you'll probably be fine vs subsequent attacks (as it's either dead/paralyzed/about to be devoured). I think you're right that you can interdict and prevent the enemy from engaging in Rasputina in many cases, but with certain crews featuring highly mobile models run by someone that knows to swarm over/engage her ASAP, having only Snow Storm to fall back on in the event the worst case scenario happens and she gets tar-pitted in melee is pretty daunting. At the very least they can much more strongly dictate her placement.

 

Concerning Seize, yeah, the fact that it doesn't guarantee an initiative win, and when it does land on, often does so at the cost of a medium/high card does count against it, but winning initiative is pretty valuable for Rasputina as I've pointed out, and your opponent generally has 1-2 activations beyond yours (or a lot more), so you may need to reposition the pillars even if you go late in the turn (and if Rasputina goes early, it is almost certainly a good idea to do so). Getting effectively 5 SS of value (not counting the benefits of going first) from a 1 SS upgrade is pretty nice. I'm not saying it's definitively better than Arcane, and I definitely don't have the experience to draw such conclusion, but I do think it provides excellent value for a master who derives especial benefit from going first, particularly against crews that can handily outactivate.

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In my opinion Shattered Mirror is an extremely 'double-edged' Upgrade.

When you are playin' it, the game is going to be a game of tower defense...

If you want to take it, consider the following:

Terrain should be Severe, but not blocking. (Like icy plains with frozen pools, swamp etc....

Your enemy should be relatively slow, ideally playin a small 'Elite Crew'

Add as much SS as you can

Hire the Essence of Power (:+fate to attack flips when you use SS in the duel)

.....then go Crazy... With CA:8, and if you use a SS to cheat a suit :+fate flips to your attacks...

In this way i was able to KILL von Schill in Soft Cover, as my last activation in turn 1!... (left both of us without SS)

But if the planescape on the table is mostly hardcover and blocking, and/or the is Enemy fast as hell,

NEVER EVER use the Shattered Mirror. Armor of december on Rasputina with Silent Ones to heal her up, is pretty awesome.

 Greetz

Tobi aka Frozen Feet

 

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21 hours ago, Surrealistik said:

@crimzzen

How many games have you played with that list, and against which factions? I definitely find it odd that your Rasputina has _never_ been bogged down in melee, as she becomes a big bullseye target with Shattered Mirror, and only Snow Storm to save her. This isn't to say that I disbelieve you, but I am pretty shocked at the fact.

I agree that Rasputina virtually always has better things to do for 1 AP than push 3" and gain some Armour, but in those situations where you'd actually use the push, 1 AP to escape an engagement effortlessly with +1 Armour as icing is IMO a bargain given Rasputina's helplessness in melee and difficulty disengaging per her 4 Df; follow up with a Paralyze/2x December Curse/Biting Chill on whatever charged you and you'll probably be fine vs subsequent attacks (as it's either dead/paralyzed/about to be devoured). I think you're right that you can interdict and prevent the enemy from engaging in Rasputina in many cases, but with certain crews featuring highly mobile models run by someone that knows to swarm over/engage her ASAP, having only Snow Storm to fall back on in the event the worst case scenario happens and she gets tar-pitted in melee is pretty daunting. At the very least they can much more strongly dictate her placement.

 

Concerning Seize, yeah, the fact that it doesn't guarantee an initiative win, and when it does land on, often does so at the cost of a medium/high card does count against it, but winning initiative is pretty valuable for Rasputina as I've pointed out, and your opponent generally has 1-2 activations beyond yours (or a lot more), so you may need to reposition the pillars even if you go late in the turn (and if Rasputina goes early, it is almost certainly a good idea to do so). Getting effectively 5 SS of value (not counting the benefits of going first) from a 1 SS upgrade is pretty nice. I'm not saying it's definitively better than Arcane, and I definitely don't have the experience to draw such conclusion, but I do think it provides excellent value for a master who derives especial benefit from going first, particularly against crews that can handily outactivate.

Hmm, hard to say, more than 10, less than 25?  I play a lot of games with a lot of factions and masters haha.  I've played her into every faction but I've not played her against Hamelin or against raptors which to me, seem like the two biggest issues.  Hamelin might actually be someone would could theoretically bog her down, but armor won't save you there either.  You'll just get reswarmed.  I play her a lot against gremlins and arcanists without issue.  Snowstorm's 8" place plus his large base size have always allowed me to place her out of danger.  I've played her into ramos but i swapped mech rider for lazarus that game and the spiders couldn't stand up to all that blasting.

 

To clarify, Raspy has been in melee, she's just never been stuck in it and needed to use ap to leave it.  Re-reading my previous post that may not have been clear.  Raspy and snowstorm are usually my last two activations, either to setup for next turn or to cast against a reduced hand.  Every time I've been caught up in melee, I've had snowstorm there to pull her out.  I also don't ever commit my snowstorm unless I can do so without risk and he gets away for free or is still within 8 of raspy or isn't required for raspy's survival.  There's some games where he's a 10 point bullet proof / 8" place bot.

 

I'm also very careful in that Raspy is never within charge or a walk of an enemy model.  If they want to get to her their either wasting ap from a push somewhere or double walking or whatever other trick.  If you're goal is to spend 2 ap to get raspy into melee only to have me use a 0 to pull her out, well that's ap efficiency in my court.  Well I guess I shouldn't say never here.  One time I was within charge of a rooster rider, but I had chipped it down in health enough that I knew my zero action could take it out.  He had little to no hand left and mine was being constantly replenished.

 

I've also not had Raspy die.  Games I lose are usually because I've lost everything else and can't keep up on the Strat.  Usually because Raspy is way far away, out of LoS if there are guns present.  I dunno, shattered mirror is just so integral to the way that I play her that I can't see not using it.  I could consider dropping arcane reservoir for a game to try Armor vs some of the more swarmy crews and play snowstorm a bit more aggressively.

 

Fair Fair, I run mech rider and with the damage raspy's crew can put out, I'm usually not out activated for long.  Unless it's a pure summoner but even then, blasting does wonders.

 

 

10 hours ago, Frozen Feet said:

In my opinion Shattered Mirror is an extremely 'double-edged' Upgrade.

When you are playin' it, the game is going to be a game of tower defense...

If you want to take it, consider the following:

Terrain should be Severe, but not blocking. (Like icy plains with frozen pools, swamp etc....

Your enemy should be relatively slow, ideally playin a small 'Elite Crew'

Add as much SS as you can

Hire the Essence of Power (:+fate to attack flips when you use SS in the duel)

.....then go Crazy... With CA:8, and if you use a SS to cheat a suit :+fate flips to your attacks...

In this way i was able to KILL von Schill in Soft Cover, as my last activation in turn 1!... (left both of us without SS)

But if the planescape on the table is mostly hardcover and blocking, and/or the is Enemy fast as hell,

NEVER EVER use the Shattered Mirror. Armor of december on Rasputina with Silent Ones to heal her up, is pretty awesome.

 Greetz

Tobi aka Frozen Feet

 

To me I want shattered mirror when the table is blocking.  IIRC you only need LoS to the frozen heart model and not the target.  This lets you cast from outside of LoS and committing (most likely a free ice gamin) to blow something up/paralyses it.  On an open table I would actually consider not taking shattered mirror as Ca5 is a lot more successful when your opponent doesn't have cover.

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@crimzzen Interesting take. The idea of tying up 11 SS strictly or even largely as a placebot, and in general a wholesale reliance on Snow Storm is more than a little concerning to me, but I suppose I'd have to try the list to see how it plays out in practice.

 

With regards to the Nipples of Fate models, thoughts on Kudra? I think Carlos has promise, but he's expensive as balls, especially with his upgrade. Kudra in the meanwhile is lower costed, versatile (decent melee and ranged), has synergy with Ice Pillars (Butterfly Jump and Mighty Vault to hide behind), Ice Gamin via her upgrade (between the armour and forced detonation; Imbued Energies is still an obvious pick), and even gets her own 0 AP vision blocking Illusionary Forest marker drop which you can stash an Ice Mirror projector in (who enjoys soft cover) that Rasputina can see and shoot out of without exposing her to enemy LoS (also provides a defensive buffer Rasputina herself can hide in with severe terrain and soft cover; Snow Storm to pull her out as needed), can be placed in base contact with Ice Pillars, and it persists until the next time you place it.

Possible lists (Which is better? Ice Gamin + 2x Imbued Energy, or an extra Silent One? Perhaps maxing out the Cache and taking 2x Imbued?):

Rasputina: Seize the Day, Armour of December, Cold Nights (3 SS Cache)

Wendigo

Snow Storm: Imbued Energies

Silent One

Kudra: Imbued Energies

2x December Acolyte

Ice Gamin

OR

Rasputina: Seize the Day, Armour of December, Cold Nights (3 SS Cache)

Wendigo

Snow Storm

2x Silent One

Kudra

2x December Acolyte

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