Dogmantra Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah, I think people tend to underestimate the power of a Ml4 disengaging strike. If nothing else, it stops charges! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 10 hours ago, Joel said: I'm yet to try fingers - maybe I just haven't found the scheme pool for him... He sure is expansive and the first mate can do pretty much the same with a couple of good cards, but he always brings home at least 3 points from a scheme and a couple from strategies. Objectives like recover evidence, accusation or strategies like stake a claim, squatters right and stuff on that line (I wouldn't add setup cause I think merris does a better job at it, or even trixie to a certain extend, but requires a bit of preparation) are almost free with him thanks to his chatty and don't mind me; also, might been just my case but my opponents usually don't even try to deal with fingers cause he's too slippery (and fairly tank too), and with frame for murder now in the pool, people esitate more to just focus kill him earlie on (since 90% of the time he's in the middle of action). He's ml7 also is not forgiving at all and his ability to change enemy markers into yours from distance comes in handy quite often. So I generally bring a combination of fingers + first mate (and earl as a back up plan) so that they can both work out as runners/denyiers, while Zipp, taxidermist Burt etc reminds my opponent that focusing the 2 buddies without taking in count the full gang might be hard to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Im still baffled by the Ronin. They just fall so easily to a shooty crew. Against Outcasts Id be far too nervous to face Levi who simply laughs at them. The seppuku seems so situational as well. Only ever would wanna fire that if down to 1wd. But hey, you seem to do perfectly fine with them. Maybe its worth trying them out. Im seriously curious though. Why isnt Burt always better than 1 of them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je ne c'est LaCroix Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Any advice please for Zipp vs Lilith and Zipp vs Shenlong/Sensei Yu? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, cryion said: Im still baffled by the Ronin. They just fall so easily to a shooty crew. Against Outcasts Id be far too nervous to face Levi who simply laughs at them. The seppuku seems so situational as well. Only ever would wanna fire that if down to 1wd. But hey, you seem to do perfectly fine with them. Maybe its worth trying them out. Im seriously curious though. Why isnt Burt always better than 1 of them? Ronin have the ability to ignore armour and push themselves about off hits, as well they are better outlets for RJ or severe damage as they can get the pos flip on damage. Seppuku is about keeping zipp flush with soulstones. Also, there are many pools where minions are needed - ronin are rather good at tail'em for example. I do use burt often (I subbed him in for game 3) when I want to do more damage or I need the enforcer, but he's just not my default choice. I'll post some thoughts about the lilith and shen long matchups lateer if I get a chance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 On stuffed piglets: peons are great in headhunter/interference as they are models I can push forward to tie up models/heads or parts of the board without worring about the downsides too much. They can block charge lanes, create engagements, etc. They also represent activation control in the early turns, allowing the rest of the crew to better respond to the opponent's moves Also, blowing them up is rather fun - don't forget that bit! One of teh keys to success with zipp for me has been minimising the effectiveness of opposing ap, and maximisng my own. things the force my opponent to spend ap dealing with them are good - ronin which can't be charged and are then hard to kill, piglets that you must deal with as they are in the way - and then are going to hurt you are both good examples of this, as if the presence of slow in the crew. couple this with models like zipp and first mate who can get more than one action out of each ap (all the free moves from saddle and skeeters as well as reckless from several models) all contribute to the other side of this equation. The less I can let you have, and the more I can do, the better. stuffed play their role in that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 What exactly are you using Saddle for? Especially in the list you used in the first 2 games it seems like you hardly get any mileage out of it. Especially due to the anti-synergy between saddle/zipp/earl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 If I can take a guess, to move around the Taxidermist or Zipp ( I know is dumb to say, but that's what the upgrade does after all), although I would say the focus is on the Taxidermist. I guess it all goes down to what @Joel wrote about maximizing the crew pieces power (in this case by positioning the Taxidermist right where he needs to be or out of a certain situation, while also making him hard to see if well placed behind Gracie). Also I would say both Earl and Zipp have a lot of synergy with a slow model like Gracie, since Zipp has an 8" push and earl a 6" one which can both cuddle Gracie slow movement and reposition her in the right place when needed. And by taking a better look at his crew, with zipp brought around by Gracie on turn 1, you can get some nice threat range for the piano with Hovering Airship! Hope I didn't just missed out everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm specifically talking about anti-synergy between Zipp taking Earl with him. He cannot do that if Gracie ships him around. A push on gracie is nice, but she wont be able to bring somebody a long either. So it would be just for Taxidermist and maybe situational Zipp later in the game. Just makes me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 To feed the taxidermist to a master/hench to get 3 VPs for frame for murder ? But yes, to give him free movement to make the most of positional summoning and more ap on attacks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I really liked @Joel crew idea (the while concept of getting the most out of your pieces fascinated me) and wanted to try it out without the Ronin since I m not that much of a fan of them and of playing mercs in general; the result was this: Zipp (gab, H.A., rambling) 6ss cache Earl Gracie - Saddle Taxidermist - Dirty Cheater Mech Porkchop 2x Lighting bug (never liked to rely on phew scheme runners) 3x Stuffed Played against a friend of mine, which is a very good neverborn player, and won 9/7 on guard the stash vs Titania only thing I would change are the porkchop (wanted to try it out and I really liked it!) and a lighting bug depending on the scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've not bought any lightning bugs myself yet - would you recommend as a purchase for zipp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Not exactly on Lightning Bug topic. But why do people hold Rambling Diatribe in such high regard? I dont ever see a reason to use it against the enemy. You are basically just rolling dice and it can backfire incredibly. Using it on yourself always seems soo situational as well. So often had to show my opponent my shitty hand, discarded 2 cards and drew shitty cards. It just seems more terrible than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four_N_Six Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, cryion said: Not exactly on Lightning Bug topic. But why do people hold Rambling Diatribe in such high regard? I dont ever see a reason to use it against the enemy. You are basically just rolling dice and it can backfire incredibly. Using it on yourself always seems soo situational as well. So often had to show my opponent my shitty hand, discarded 2 cards and drew shitty cards. It just seems more terrible than not. It depends on the opponent. If I'm going against Marcus for example, it's great because he doesn't have his defensive trigger built in. My friend that uses Marcus will keep any tome he pulls for his defensive trigger. So being able to make him toss them out before I unload on the Beast Master is pretty useful. Typically if I bring it it goes on Sammy, not Zipp. Zipp has very valuable AP to me and I don't want to waste his setting up and using that. Sammy sometimes can spare that. Though I've only brought it a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, Four_N_Six said: It depends on the opponent. If I'm going against Marcus for example, it's great because he doesn't have his defensive trigger built in. My friend that uses Marcus will keep any tome he pulls for his defensive trigger. So being able to make him toss them out before I unload on the Beast Master is pretty useful. Typically if I bring it it goes on Sammy, not Zipp. Zipp has very valuable AP to me and I don't want to waste his setting up and using that. Sammy sometimes can spare that. Though I've only brought it a couple of times. Yeah so this one time I targeted Nicodem. He discarded a 1 of crows and his eyes lightened up when he drew his new card. It is a gamble, no matter what the master is. You simply dont know if he has any decent tomes in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Joel said: I've not bought any lightning bugs myself yet - would you recommend as a purchase for zipp? I would say they're really good everywhere; they always find something to do, since they can pass from scheme running (reckless and their zero make you put a scheme/condition a the end of the turn in a 15" radius, all for a tome), finishing off targets (Ca 6 rg 8 that ignores armor which can give slow or deal some damages in a pulse is not bad at all, since 3 attacks deal 6 to 9 damages) or even healing (they can charge/cast at a model and with a mask can heal all models in a pulse, especially useful against 50mm models charging your crew). They lack the sturdiness and the ability to make good use of the Rj that Ronins have, but compensate with tricks and versatility (they still have 6 wounds, which for a 5 ss model are not bad at all), while also saving up 4 stones to use how you want. So i definetly recomend you to give them a chance if you have the occasion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 hour ago, cryion said: Yeah so this one time I targeted Nicodem. He discarded a 1 of crows and his eyes lightened up when he drew his new card. It is a gamble, no matter what the master is. You simply dont know if he has any decent tomes in hand. You're missing what is in my opinion the strongest part about it which is knowing what your opponent has in his hands! You can even say a seed he won't use (maybe paired with a crow for a slow) so you won't risk a full reshuffle of his hand and you'll be able to take a look at his cheating capabilities, which can be crucial! Information in this game is so critical, from knowing what schemes your opponent is pursuing to what his crew is capable of doing, it's all crucial, and knowing your enemy resources is on the same level. Also you need to consider the threat of it in terms of bluffing: is he cheating a high card? Than expect him to have a lot of useful cards that he doesn't want to risk out. Is he keeping his cheat low? Than its not a big deal for him so you can think about why he's willing to risk it. Also about using it on yourself I would say it's situational, but when it comes to it, is able to substitute a bunch of garbage for actual useful stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Maybe. But if you see his hand and make him drop 2 cards or so.. you still wont really know his cheating capability. Sure, you gained some information. But its anything but perfect information. I dont know, I kinda dont see it. But maybe one has to be a pro to make use of it. Which, spoiler, Im not. haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 minute ago, cryion said: Maybe. But if you see his hand and make him drop 2 cards or so.. you still wont really know his cheating capability. Sure, you gained some information. But its anything but perfect information. I dont know, I kinda dont see it. But maybe one has to be a pro to make use of it. Which, spoiler, Im not. haha You still know 4 card out of 6 at that point, if he drop 2 high cards you didn't t saw before, he's done and it's your time to shine for 1 ss I think it's brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 On diatribe: the amount of times I've been able to show my opponent that I'm holding 3 face cards, or that im holding the RJ, then pick up a new card or two is enough. it makes my opponent hang back - it's a great Mind game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 On 1/24/2017 at 11:44 AM, Je ne c'est LaCroix said: Any advice please for Zipp vs Lilith and Zipp vs Shenlong/Sensei Yu? So, I have a little time, so lets look at the Zipp vs. Lilith matchup this is a clash of 2 masters who can both affect the game at 12" range, without needing line of sight, and both can drop terrain. Both can move models around too. With both masters having so much is common, the matchup can become something of a dance, and its going to come down to AP efficiency. Rooted is the issue - the prevention of a walk or charge - is something Lilith will try on Zipp, but even if successful and the condition drops on Zipp then you have 2 get-outs. Firstly you can get the 6" place off the defensive trigger, and when Zipp activates, if he needs to move, then he simply uses the ability from either of his limited upgrades to remove the condition and get on with business. what particular issues are you having with Lilith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 I'll be having a tournament tomorrow ( 20-ish people) and I plan to play mostly zipp (strategies are form gg2017 and our captain seem to be the perfect one for them) so if I can note down some stuff while playing I'll write down a battle report wish me luck and any last moment advice are well recived Fyi: the strategies are Head Hunter (close deployment), Squatters rights (corner) and Stake a claim (standard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Steaky Clam is great for Gremlins, and I imagine it would be good for Zipp too - he drags earl around who just spends his 2AP on dropping Claim markers. Head Hunter seems pretty good for Zipp too. Actually, they all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, EpicWaffle said: I'll be having a tournament tomorrow ( 20-ish people) and I plan to play mostly zipp (strategies are form gg2017 and our captain seem to be the perfect one for them) so if I can note down some stuff while playing I'll write down a battle report wish me luck and any last moment advice are well recived Fyi: the strategies are Head Hunter (close deployment), Squatters rights (corner) and Stake a claim (standard). Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicWaffle Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dogmantra said: Steaky Clam is great for Gremlins, and I imagine it would be good for Zipp too - he drags earl around who just spends his 2AP on dropping Claim markers. Head Hunter seems pretty good for Zipp too. Actually, they all do. The 1 mate is great for both stake a claim and squatters! Being able to push people away and having a leap rocks in these situations I m planning to use a lot fingers too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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